"Tapering off,,,,,,,,,,,"
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Now THIS is what I'm talking about,,,good discussion and view points on "individualized" recovery,,,
SISTA, this is the most important question for me,,,I've been doing a lot of sorting and praying lately for some enlightenment.
As previously mentioned, I NEVER did this with any other X. The last one, before the A, was dvastating to me, and their was a lot of emotional wreckage, but I did not WANT any contact with him and gave up the "dream" of us reuniting fairly quickly. Like the breakup with my A, I instigated the last one also. so, there is no difference in terms of who broke up with who. So, I can't use that as an "excuse"
The best I can figure out, in terms of WHY I haven't been able to "let him go" is the "hold" my addictive nature has on ME. I am addicted to him. his drama, his recovery, his life, hell, even if he's getting his laundry done. But what keeps me tied the most I think is HOPE. That he will "recover" and he and I will become a "we"
I think, I use his "disease" as an excuse. After all, he can't help it if he's sick. Unlike my ex before him, there was no excuse. That means, I am still in denial about the chooses my A makes. Subliminal, or conciously, thinking its not his fault he drinks, or manipulates me, or emotionally abuses me, ect, ect, ect, . When the REALITY is, I still don't TRUST enough of myself to see it for what it is. cold, hard choices he is making.
My ex made those same choices and they were simply unacceptable to me. Then why, when my A makes the SAME choices, do I contstantly go back to see if its changed?
Because he is an alcoholic. Because I am a caring and loving human being and don't want to have a regret that I wasn't the martyr.
How's that for guilt?
Peace
but now I'm stuck with figuring out what I am trying to get out of keeping contact with him???
As previously mentioned, I NEVER did this with any other X. The last one, before the A, was dvastating to me, and their was a lot of emotional wreckage, but I did not WANT any contact with him and gave up the "dream" of us reuniting fairly quickly. Like the breakup with my A, I instigated the last one also. so, there is no difference in terms of who broke up with who. So, I can't use that as an "excuse"
The best I can figure out, in terms of WHY I haven't been able to "let him go" is the "hold" my addictive nature has on ME. I am addicted to him. his drama, his recovery, his life, hell, even if he's getting his laundry done.
But what keeps me tied the most I think is HOPE. That he will "recover" and he and I will become a "we"I think, I use his "disease" as an excuse. After all, he can't help it if he's sick. Unlike my ex before him, there was no excuse. That means, I am still in denial about the chooses my A makes. Subliminal, or conciously, thinking its not his fault he drinks, or manipulates me, or emotionally abuses me, ect, ect, ect, . When the REALITY is, I still don't TRUST enough of myself to see it for what it is. cold, hard choices he is making.
My ex made those same choices and they were simply unacceptable to me. Then why, when my A makes the SAME choices, do I contstantly go back to see if its changed?
Because he is an alcoholic. Because I am a caring and loving human being and don't want to have a regret that I wasn't the martyr.
How's that for guilt?
Peace
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You're right CE. This is what it's all about. People sharing experiences that worked or didn't work. Others taking what they need and leaving the rest.
It's not about doing it "right." It's about asking yourself the hard questions and discovering who you really are and how you want your life to be.
In my case, I held on to the hope that he would get sober, too. And, guess what? He did. And after a while, I realized that even sober, he was not the person I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. That may be a really scarey thought for some of you. I know it would have been for me a couple years ago, but I feel like I just became aware of me at the ripe old age of 44. I could have gone on till I died being uable to create my own life, looking outside myself for validation and comfort in the form of a partner. Instead, I am on a path to finding what is in my soul. I could never have found this path as long as I was "attached" to my husband. And that's what it was. I had confused attachment for love. In fact, I have more actual love for him now that we are apart than I did all those years I was "attached" to him. It's hard to explain, but once I began to grow, I couldn't stop. I couldn't be the person I was, the person he wanted me to be..............
L
It's not about doing it "right." It's about asking yourself the hard questions and discovering who you really are and how you want your life to be.
In my case, I held on to the hope that he would get sober, too. And, guess what? He did. And after a while, I realized that even sober, he was not the person I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. That may be a really scarey thought for some of you. I know it would have been for me a couple years ago, but I feel like I just became aware of me at the ripe old age of 44. I could have gone on till I died being uable to create my own life, looking outside myself for validation and comfort in the form of a partner. Instead, I am on a path to finding what is in my soul. I could never have found this path as long as I was "attached" to my husband. And that's what it was. I had confused attachment for love. In fact, I have more actual love for him now that we are apart than I did all those years I was "attached" to him. It's hard to explain, but once I began to grow, I couldn't stop. I couldn't be the person I was, the person he wanted me to be..............
L
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And after a while, I realized that even sober, he was not the person I wanted to spend the rest of my life with.
I have thought, vey often over the last few months, that take the alcohol away, and is my A the type of man I want to spend the rest of my life with anyway?
Unlike my initial thinking, getting sober would only be the BEGINING of building the foundation for a relationship.
Based on the "healing" and self realizations I've experienced over the last 4 months, I don't beleive the partnership was built on the things I want in my life now.
I had someone I admire very much tell me this morning, "You deserve so much more"
It struck me, that back when I met my A, I didn't think I deserved anything. Self esteem issues and OTHER things in ym life were driving my relationship with him. I have been in the process of correcting those things and now frankly, I don't think he will "fit".
Certain things about him exists, sober or not
Like the fact he ALWAYs has to be right. And the focus always on him.
These are not "alcoholic" tendancy in him at least. They are part of his core. At least I think so now that I have time to have some "clarity" and stop making "excuses" for him
the part that dumbfounds me, is why I couldn't/can't see that? I mean, i think I am so wrapped up in sobriety, that I don't think beyond and am I gonna even LIKE him should he get sober? It almost like the "obsessing" about sobriety outweighs everything else?
Peace
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thank you for this post. i am beating myself up and failing at my recovery and wondering why i don't want to get better. i am supposed to cut off contact, but when i look at reality, i am happy for every bit of contact he gives me. i left myself feel according to what he does or doesn't give me. i don't know how to have friendly contact with someone i loved so much who hurt me so much. i really miss him. i need to fill my life with more, but man, i miss him. he only contacts me when his girlfriend breaks up with him for a few weeks. this fleeting attention--very fleeting, and attention should be in quotes, since i am reading into every shred he gives me-- is so bad for me. i am surely at the bottom/have madeno progress. it's back to a week since i've talked to him. i feel like throwing up. he is in recovery and i am not. never knew i was this sick.
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Someone mentioned staying in touch with previous exs. I've mentioned this before, but I'll do so again for the newbies.
I was with a guy for 10 years. No addiction issues, however we split after we both realised we wanted different things. (Actually, we probably wanted different people, tbh). Whilst the relationship had run its course and was somewhat rancorous in the last few months, the spplit held no animosity, was an entirely amicable seperation, including sale of house. For 6 months after we "officially" split up, we would see each other about once a week and invariably end up in bed. Neither of us expected anything of the other, though, and we just enjoyed the time we spent together. Independently, we realised that this wasn't a good thing for either of us, and the last time we spent together, we both knew it was just that, without discussing it. We then didn't speak for about 9 months, apart from some occasional factual discusssion about the sale of the house. We then met at a mutual friends party and from that day on, our relationship is entirely different and based on friendship, not history.
We needed that time apart to get used to not relating on a "couples" level. We needed to get used to not holding hands, calling each other pet names, knowing what was going on in each others lives etc.
If we needed that, given the ease of our break up, then how could I ever expect that it was not needed amongst so much dysfunction?
I think I wanted contact with R to have another chance of validation. In the hope that perhaps one time he might give me what I was craving - remorse, admission, an ear to my "side", empathy. It never came. That said, it never came with my previous ex either, nor did I supply it to him. Hey ho. Yet another puzzler to be worked out, or left for the winds.
I was with a guy for 10 years. No addiction issues, however we split after we both realised we wanted different things. (Actually, we probably wanted different people, tbh). Whilst the relationship had run its course and was somewhat rancorous in the last few months, the spplit held no animosity, was an entirely amicable seperation, including sale of house. For 6 months after we "officially" split up, we would see each other about once a week and invariably end up in bed. Neither of us expected anything of the other, though, and we just enjoyed the time we spent together. Independently, we realised that this wasn't a good thing for either of us, and the last time we spent together, we both knew it was just that, without discussing it. We then didn't speak for about 9 months, apart from some occasional factual discusssion about the sale of the house. We then met at a mutual friends party and from that day on, our relationship is entirely different and based on friendship, not history.
We needed that time apart to get used to not relating on a "couples" level. We needed to get used to not holding hands, calling each other pet names, knowing what was going on in each others lives etc.
If we needed that, given the ease of our break up, then how could I ever expect that it was not needed amongst so much dysfunction?
I think I wanted contact with R to have another chance of validation. In the hope that perhaps one time he might give me what I was craving - remorse, admission, an ear to my "side", empathy. It never came. That said, it never came with my previous ex either, nor did I supply it to him. Hey ho. Yet another puzzler to be worked out, or left for the winds.
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This post is very helpful; to me and I wanted to add my experience/feelings to it.
My AH and I have been separated on and off since December. We tried the friends on phone thing, didnt work. We ended up back together, 10 days later a knock down drag out fight, separated again, he kept calling, eventually he stopped, I panicked called crying, bang back together again. That time it lasted 6 weeks and was probably the healthiest part of our whole marriage, until once again he lost control of his attempting to function in drinking and BAM, went too far by taking car and leaving me stranded at work, had to find peopel to pick up my kids, go to store and all for 4 days. I said this is enough. Told him not to contact me until he was acting responsibly. DIdnt speak to him in almost 6 weeks, it was a rough 6 weeks with many degrees of emotions, wanting him to call, glad he did not ect.
He started contacting me once a week, we kept it simple, it was okay.
3 weeks ago I felt he was trying to pull me in, but instead of cutting off contact I did nothing, contact increased, next thing I knew we were intimate when hed come visit kids ect. He came to stay here to get a ride to a far away job, first day my thoughts were who is tis guy, my feelings are gone, but little by little the rose tint to my glasses came on again and little by little I got attached to this person I dont even think I like anymore, but he was still him drinking or not, he was critical and arrogant and suddenly thought we should give him respect. (Keep in mind he hadnt contributed to family and been living in and junking my premarital home and paying no bills, has no utilities ect.) Within 24 hours from the point he thought he should get respect and support all things exploded again, and once again Im going through the pain of trying to let go. But not only me so are my kids, and Im positive under the once again constantly intoxicated state he is too.
I wish for all of us I had kept him away, it hurt us all. I now feel I should have stuck with the no care no contact, yet its hard with kids and a house to sell ect.
I honestly can say today this past year with the on again off again drama was worse than living with him when active. The only good is I started seeing him for what he really was.
This is what Im dealing with today, but as I started reading this thread I realized something Id really never thought about.
1. My first fiance went into full blown alcoholism after we split, but you sorta saw the signs while we were together and I was 210% codie. We split and quickly established no contact, but when we reestablished years later, we too ended up quickly intimate, in the end we lived together a few months as friends and fought like we had when together, our last conversation I remember him saying Ive always loved you, but we've never been good together, funny those are the words Im about to say to AH.
2. My first husband and I after separated, like MInnie had described kept up a sexual relationship, why cause I couldnt let go.(even though he was with someone else) The day I said Im not taking this anymore, he left her and we ended up back together, 10 months and another child later I found out he was a sicko, I hated him, he went to prison, yet a part of me kept writing, why? I have no idea and it only stopped when I met AH
3. I scoped my friends on my myspace profile only to realize that 2 of them are guys I dated at 16/17. Why do we hang on? I have no idea.
Its starting to seem to me, at least for me no contact is probably the better long term option
My AH and I have been separated on and off since December. We tried the friends on phone thing, didnt work. We ended up back together, 10 days later a knock down drag out fight, separated again, he kept calling, eventually he stopped, I panicked called crying, bang back together again. That time it lasted 6 weeks and was probably the healthiest part of our whole marriage, until once again he lost control of his attempting to function in drinking and BAM, went too far by taking car and leaving me stranded at work, had to find peopel to pick up my kids, go to store and all for 4 days. I said this is enough. Told him not to contact me until he was acting responsibly. DIdnt speak to him in almost 6 weeks, it was a rough 6 weeks with many degrees of emotions, wanting him to call, glad he did not ect.
He started contacting me once a week, we kept it simple, it was okay.
3 weeks ago I felt he was trying to pull me in, but instead of cutting off contact I did nothing, contact increased, next thing I knew we were intimate when hed come visit kids ect. He came to stay here to get a ride to a far away job, first day my thoughts were who is tis guy, my feelings are gone, but little by little the rose tint to my glasses came on again and little by little I got attached to this person I dont even think I like anymore, but he was still him drinking or not, he was critical and arrogant and suddenly thought we should give him respect. (Keep in mind he hadnt contributed to family and been living in and junking my premarital home and paying no bills, has no utilities ect.) Within 24 hours from the point he thought he should get respect and support all things exploded again, and once again Im going through the pain of trying to let go. But not only me so are my kids, and Im positive under the once again constantly intoxicated state he is too.
I wish for all of us I had kept him away, it hurt us all. I now feel I should have stuck with the no care no contact, yet its hard with kids and a house to sell ect.
I honestly can say today this past year with the on again off again drama was worse than living with him when active. The only good is I started seeing him for what he really was.
This is what Im dealing with today, but as I started reading this thread I realized something Id really never thought about.
1. My first fiance went into full blown alcoholism after we split, but you sorta saw the signs while we were together and I was 210% codie. We split and quickly established no contact, but when we reestablished years later, we too ended up quickly intimate, in the end we lived together a few months as friends and fought like we had when together, our last conversation I remember him saying Ive always loved you, but we've never been good together, funny those are the words Im about to say to AH.
2. My first husband and I after separated, like MInnie had described kept up a sexual relationship, why cause I couldnt let go.(even though he was with someone else) The day I said Im not taking this anymore, he left her and we ended up back together, 10 months and another child later I found out he was a sicko, I hated him, he went to prison, yet a part of me kept writing, why? I have no idea and it only stopped when I met AH
3. I scoped my friends on my myspace profile only to realize that 2 of them are guys I dated at 16/17. Why do we hang on? I have no idea.
Its starting to seem to me, at least for me no contact is probably the better long term option
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I know myself. I know that if I do not cut all contact, I will get sucked back to some degree or another. And that would be the wrong thing for me and for AH. He doesn't recognize he has a drinking problem. I can't live with it anymore. I am working with our pastor to reach out to him the day I leave and am leaving it in their capable hands and with God.
I know this marriage is damaged beyond repair, that he has killed the love I used to feel. I still care for him but I do not love the man he is. I do not think it would be fair to him to let him think this is a temporary separation rather than the lead up to a divorce. He needs to have reality from me. At a distance, thru my attorney and members of our congregation.
I know this marriage is damaged beyond repair, that he has killed the love I used to feel. I still care for him but I do not love the man he is. I do not think it would be fair to him to let him think this is a temporary separation rather than the lead up to a divorce. He needs to have reality from me. At a distance, thru my attorney and members of our congregation.
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Originally Posted by chero 
UGH! This thread hurts, CE!
I'm seeing a pattern and it is against tapering. So, why can't I get it through my thick skull!?!
I'm seeing a pattern and it is against tapering. So, why can't I get it through my thick skull!?!
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Originally Posted by chero
UGH! This thread hurts, CE!
I'm seeing a pattern and it is against tapering. So, why can't I get it through my thick skull!?!
I'm seeing a pattern and it is against tapering. So, why can't I get it through my thick skull!?!
I cant either, sometimes what we know is probably right it hurts to bad.
SOmeone told me to rip the bandaid off it would feel better. I was told that in January, repeat it often, but still cant do it
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WOW this is sooooooooo kool 
Its almost like we can reveal out inner most thoughts on this thread. Not that we don't do a good job, "throwing up" in the rest of the site,,,lol. Speaking for myself, hearing how everyone "customizes" helps me reliaze its about forward progression.
((((((((Lillian)))))))))). I have so been where you are, I get better, and sometimes fiind myself back there. Attention. For me, that was a good place to start. Why did I feel I had to settle for what he DIDN'T give me to get attention? It took me while to ofigure out, I needed to tke care of myself if I hoped to live. ANd I'm not overstating that I was in fact, dying.
Minnie, I think theres a point in your story and one I have been struggling with.It is one of the "subtle" wonders of things we in this thread have in common. And it seems to only involve the addiction. Why do we need to get the things you mentioned "validation, remorse, seeing "my" side ect from our A's? Especially if it was never a factor in previous breakups? My mentality in almost every breakup I've had before my A was "sometimes you just don't get the "answer". I would let it go, and move on. With my A, I for some reason need FULL closure. And am almost obsessed to see that I get it. Does any of this make sense? Does any one else feel this?
Cinder, you sorta touched upon it. Are we seeing a pattern here?
No Sista, this thread is education AND enlightenment!! It is a xombination of ESH that is powerful when put in one place. Ilove SR and the opportunity it provides to get ESH from others who may have been in a particular situation, thought process or circumstance, but this one talks about RECOVERY. All in one place, all with the FREEDOM of feeling like there is no judgement being passed. ITS OK to feel what you feel and react how you react based on what you knew best at the time. When you know better, you do better
Tapering off is part of the process,,,,
Besides, this thread was YOUR idea,,,LOL
Ok, it was a colaberation. he,he,he. We BOTH have been struggling with tapering off, knowing the next "level" in recovery. How many MORE of us are out there?!?!? And even better, how many OTHERS have told their ESH and found out more about THEMSELVES?
No sista, this thread doesn't hurt. It breathes LIFE,,,
Peace
Its almost like we can reveal out inner most thoughts on this thread. Not that we don't do a good job, "throwing up" in the rest of the site,,,lol. Speaking for myself, hearing how everyone "customizes" helps me reliaze its about forward progression.((((((((Lillian)))))))))). I have so been where you are, I get better, and sometimes fiind myself back there. Attention. For me, that was a good place to start. Why did I feel I had to settle for what he DIDN'T give me to get attention? It took me while to ofigure out, I needed to tke care of myself if I hoped to live. ANd I'm not overstating that I was in fact, dying.
Minnie, I think theres a point in your story and one I have been struggling with.It is one of the "subtle" wonders of things we in this thread have in common. And it seems to only involve the addiction. Why do we need to get the things you mentioned "validation, remorse, seeing "my" side ect from our A's? Especially if it was never a factor in previous breakups? My mentality in almost every breakup I've had before my A was "sometimes you just don't get the "answer". I would let it go, and move on. With my A, I for some reason need FULL closure. And am almost obsessed to see that I get it. Does any of this make sense? Does any one else feel this?
Cinder, you sorta touched upon it. Are we seeing a pattern here?
UGH! This thread hurts, CE!
Tapering off is part of the process,,,,
Besides, this thread was YOUR idea,,,LOL
Ok, it was a colaberation. he,he,he. We BOTH have been struggling with tapering off, knowing the next "level" in recovery. How many MORE of us are out there?!?!? And even better, how many OTHERS have told their ESH and found out more about THEMSELVES?
No sista, this thread doesn't hurt. It breathes LIFE,,,
Peace
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Originally Posted by CE Girl
My mentality in almost every breakup I've had before my A was "sometimes you just don't get the "answer". I would let it go, and move on. With my A, I for some reason need FULL closure. And am almost obsessed to see that I get it. Does any of this make sense? Does any one else feel this?
well, it doesn't make any sense to me, but i can totally relate. i'm not sure why As are different and i'm not sure why we react so differently to them, but i think a lot of us were or are in the same boat.
i don't feel the need for closure now, but that's probably because we don't talk anymore and i don't entertain ideas of us getting back together. if i did, i'd definitely want answers.
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Originally Posted by cagefree
...To validate every freakin thing I was ever blamed for...cuz I still have trouble validating it for myself.
My AH also blamed me for EVERYTHING! I wonder if that's part of the reason I keep the contact going...because now I'm starting to hear from him how sorry he was for all that he said and did and I feel validated in my decision to leave and feel like now there is proof that I was right.
That is a sad thought. I hope that isn't what I'm doing. I'll have to think about that a little longer.
I'm learning so much about myself with this thread.
Originally Posted by CE Girl
Besides, this thread was YOUR idea,,,LOL
Ok, it was a colaberation. he,he,he.
Ok, it was a colaberation. he,he,he.
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...To validate every freakin thing I was ever blamed for...cuz I still have trouble validating it for myself.
Seriously, the disease of alcoholism is so cunning and the skills of an alcoholic so honed to the means to an end, that I felt many times like my thinking was "skewed". There HAd to be an explanation for this?!?! Noone could actually think up these things unless they were TRUE. What am I missing?
I would rack my BRAINS trying to make sense of the senseless.
And even when I did, would have trouble convincing myself that this was BS!!!
I wonder if that's part of the reason I keep the contact going...because now I'm starting to hear from him how sorry he was for all that he said and did and I feel validated in my decision to leave and feel like now there is proof that I was right.
I know, it makes me feel "smug" and I actually like it. Like the little girl who goes, "I told you so".
Read that. How absolutely SICK that is
Makes me think, no matter how many times he apoligzes, or validates me with his sorrys about what he did, I will NEVER get enough. Thats how DAMAGED in my core I am/was. As I recover, I realize, he will probably never satisfy my need for the validation of the damage that he did.
Where I need to begin, is to realize, what he said just simply wasn't true. I need to BELEIVE in myself and who I am. That I would never be motivated or cunning enough to be the person he would try to lead me beleive I was. I MUST find that validation in MYSELF.
Only then can I TRULY let go of my addictiion
Peace
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Originally Posted by CE Girl
I will NEVER get enough. As I recover, I realize, he will probably never satisfy my need for the validation of the damage that he did.
Where I need to begin, is to realize, what he said just simply wasn't true. I need to BELEIVE in myself and who I am. That I would never be motivated or cunning enough to be the person he would try to lead me beleive I was. I MUST find that validation in MYSELF.
Only then can I TRULY let go of my addictiion
Peace
Where I need to begin, is to realize, what he said just simply wasn't true. I need to BELEIVE in myself and who I am. That I would never be motivated or cunning enough to be the person he would try to lead me beleive I was. I MUST find that validation in MYSELF.
Only then can I TRULY let go of my addictiion
Peace
A couple months ago in the middle of my anger tirade, my counselor advised me to write a pretend letter to him to get the anger out...my response? It won't help...he won't read it, won't agree with everything while hanging his head in shame while I whacked him over the head with the Big Book.
You're not the only sick one here
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It won't help...he won't read it, won't agree with everything while hanging his head in shame while I whacked him over the head with the Big Book.
Or maybe the planned six months I have of him completely WAITING on me, while wearing an APRON?!?!?
There never would be enough would there?
I once caused my husband of 23 years to not trust me. It was early in our marriage. Ultimatly we got back together. I knew going into it, I was going to have to work HARD to gain that trust back. It was a VALUABLE lesson in my life. I spent 10 years "understanding" his anger and lack of trust in anything I had to say to hom. For me, it took consistency, total and complete honesty, and determination to win that trust back through ACTION. Finally, after 10 years (no, I am NOT exaggerating) we had a talk. I told him, I could not "prove" my trust to him any longer. From that day forward he began to "trust" again, and we stayed married till the day he died.
I NEVER want to have to do that again,,,
And I wonder, if my A is strong enough to do it once,,
Ok, ok, I'll forgive and forget after 9 1/2 years of ACTION. After all, I am a compassionate codie
Peace
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