"Tapering off,,,,,,,,,,,"
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"Tapering off,,,,,,,,,,,"
The topic of this thread came from my Sista while having a conversation about how she feels. As usual, our recoveries are parallel. It's amazing how the spirits (hp) work, giving me a Sista in this one dimensional world. 
Anyway, she was saying how she feels her realtionship with her AH is "tapering off" and I thought, she put it perfectly for ME.
When I first came to realize I needed to get healthy I thought the solution was complete and total disengagement from my A. I spent a lot of agonizing hours trying to maintain that "boundary". Sure, there were parts I was very comfotable with, like not seeing or talking to him on the phone. I've managed to not see him for almost 4 months, and have talked to him on the phone twice in that time. But I have corresponded via email. And I beat myself up. Asking myself why I can't stick to the "program" and just STOP. I was making myself CRAZY trying to fullfill what I perceived as OTHERS expectations of how I should detach. My codieism, feeding my codieism,,,he,he,he
Well, because that's not part of MY program
I, as did many of us, decided i needed to do something for MYSELF to make my life better. Hit my bottom. And guess what the first thing I did? Came here to SR. Before anything else, this is what I did. I read, read, read, and noticed most of the advice I was hearing was al anon, therapy, and reaching out for help. All sound advice and frankly, I follow. I created a "healing" library and bought every book about alcoholism and codependancy, recovery I could get my hands on. And I began to "learn and apply"
As a result, my contact with my A began to taper off,,,
It isn't happeing like I expected it too. I hear/read so much about a "click" and while it may happen one day, right now it's more like a soft turn of a switch when your dimming the lights.
Thats just it, recovery for us codies is very, very, personalized with numerous similarities. WE each in our own ways are going to come to the "conclusion" individually. Some will stay and successfully detach, others will move on and leave that part of their lives completely and totally in the past, still others will maintain the contact for years, while going on with their seperate lives, taking care of themselves. Numerous scenerios in between.
How's YOUR recovery going? Are you "customizing" your recovery?
Peace
Anyway, she was saying how she feels her realtionship with her AH is "tapering off" and I thought, she put it perfectly for ME.
When I first came to realize I needed to get healthy I thought the solution was complete and total disengagement from my A. I spent a lot of agonizing hours trying to maintain that "boundary". Sure, there were parts I was very comfotable with, like not seeing or talking to him on the phone. I've managed to not see him for almost 4 months, and have talked to him on the phone twice in that time. But I have corresponded via email. And I beat myself up. Asking myself why I can't stick to the "program" and just STOP. I was making myself CRAZY trying to fullfill what I perceived as OTHERS expectations of how I should detach. My codieism, feeding my codieism,,,he,he,he
Well, because that's not part of MY program
I, as did many of us, decided i needed to do something for MYSELF to make my life better. Hit my bottom. And guess what the first thing I did? Came here to SR. Before anything else, this is what I did. I read, read, read, and noticed most of the advice I was hearing was al anon, therapy, and reaching out for help. All sound advice and frankly, I follow. I created a "healing" library and bought every book about alcoholism and codependancy, recovery I could get my hands on. And I began to "learn and apply"
As a result, my contact with my A began to taper off,,,
It isn't happeing like I expected it too. I hear/read so much about a "click" and while it may happen one day, right now it's more like a soft turn of a switch when your dimming the lights.
Thats just it, recovery for us codies is very, very, personalized with numerous similarities. WE each in our own ways are going to come to the "conclusion" individually. Some will stay and successfully detach, others will move on and leave that part of their lives completely and totally in the past, still others will maintain the contact for years, while going on with their seperate lives, taking care of themselves. Numerous scenerios in between.
How's YOUR recovery going? Are you "customizing" your recovery?
Peace
full of hope
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oklahoma
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I'm with ya, CE! 
I couldn't do it the hard-core way and just go cold turkey. Not that it doesn't work for some but it didn't work for me.
I'm tapering and I feel okay about it. I'm being honest with my AH and frankly with myself for the first time in a long time and that feels GREAT!
There are draw-backs to taping, though. Hmm....I am curious what others think about tapering off contact.
I couldn't do it the hard-core way and just go cold turkey. Not that it doesn't work for some but it didn't work for me.
I'm tapering and I feel okay about it. I'm being honest with my AH and frankly with myself for the first time in a long time and that feels GREAT!
There are draw-backs to taping, though. Hmm....I am curious what others think about tapering off contact.
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
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Heh! I know I was one of the ones advocating cold turkey no contact. I still believe in it wholeheartedly, however it is not exactly what I did. I did it in stages as I was not equipped to deal with the loss of my relationship, my home and my job/career in one fail swoop. Yet, that's why I suggest it - I wasted precious time playing into the drama. Yes, it is a tad "do as I say, not as I did", yet that seems to work in other areas of life.
I see it as a "reach for the stars and you might just hit the moon" kind of thing. Having the idea of no contact in ones mind changes the dynamics somewhat, I think.
I see it as a "reach for the stars and you might just hit the moon" kind of thing. Having the idea of no contact in ones mind changes the dynamics somewhat, I think.
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Join Date: May 2004
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Breaks one free of the enmeshment, I think.
Once I realised that I could survive on my own, possibilities that I could never have previously conceived opened up to me. And, actually, that had little to do with the fact that my ex was a drinker. It was all to do with my own stuff.
Once I realised that I could survive on my own, possibilities that I could never have previously conceived opened up to me. And, actually, that had little to do with the fact that my ex was a drinker. It was all to do with my own stuff.
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Originally Posted by CE Girl 
How's YOUR recovery going? Are you "customizing" your recovery?
Coming to terms with alcoholism and seeing that it wasn't my fault, but HIS--the AH, who holds majority of the blame for the demise of our marriage and family made it easier to get out...but not easy to get over. I feel like a soldier returning from battle. Only time by living alone in a quiet, peaceful, non-dysfunctional and codependent setting will the deep emotional wounds I have suffered from the side-affects of alcohol start to heal, although they will never completely go away.
When AH and I talk, I keep it short and to the point about the kids or the sale of our house. AH still refuses to accept he has a problem with alcohol, but I did tell him by e-mail once after he had an 'alcohol moment' over the phone with me a few weeks ago, that I would no longer tolerate such outbursts and would file a grievance with his commander if AH continued to do so...he's been on very good behavior since then. I also told AH in the same email that if down the road he felt his life was becoming completely unmanageable and came to terms with his powerlessness over alcohol, that I would be available to talk to him about it in a civil manner and would provide AH with _moral support_ in any and all efforts to obtain sobriety...only IF he chooses that option. But I'm not holding my breath, so I keep AH at arms-length.
I have chosen to move on with my life in an alcoholic-free zone ;o)
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"reach for the stars and you might just hit the moon"
I am grateful for all those who counseled no contact. It was the moon, but the reality is I am navigating through the stars.
AH with _moral support_ in any and all efforts to obtain sobriety
My A is currently "in recovery" again. The question has become, "how do I support without giving false expectations or mixed messages?"
Encouraging my A to continue to focus on himself and his recovery, he comes back with, "why can't we support each other?" I've explained, his recovery is about him, mine about me. For now, they are WORLDS apart. My boundary stands, without some REAL sober time (in my case 6 months) we can not begin to think about being together.
There lies the confusion for me. Although, I KNOW intellectually we NEED this time. Adn to Minnie's point, I simply don't want to waste time on the roller coaster anymore, but emotionally, I don't want the 'broken family' either. And of course, the all powerfull thinking of, "what if he makes it this time?" Thats were the spirits come ion for me. I put it in their hands, and so far, they have led me in the contnous direction I started out in. Head down, plow forward to my goal. No alcohol in my life.
So, now, to be fair to him, do I just stop altogether?
Peace
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If he makes it this time, then he can call you when he has. I am certain that there are plenty of people (better qualified) around to hold his hand in the meantime. And if you have moved on by then, well them's the breaks. He had his chance. As for the "broken family" thing - what kind of family was it before if it wasn't broken already? How whole was it? Besides, who knows if you will be compatible after your respective recovery journeys? The reasons why you got together might not be there anymore.
I've had a think on my previous responses and wanted to add something. Another very good reason why no contact, or at least minimal contact, is such a good idea is because it allows us to see how everyone acts when not in the drama. Is the drinker continually blames the spouse for making them drink with their nagging*, for example, and then continues to drink in the absence of "nagging", then one can start to see the BS for what it is. And perhaps they might too.
*nagging is simply the repetition of unplatable truths, imho.
I've had a think on my previous responses and wanted to add something. Another very good reason why no contact, or at least minimal contact, is such a good idea is because it allows us to see how everyone acts when not in the drama. Is the drinker continually blames the spouse for making them drink with their nagging*, for example, and then continues to drink in the absence of "nagging", then one can start to see the BS for what it is. And perhaps they might too.
*nagging is simply the repetition of unplatable truths, imho.
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You are so right Minnie in terms of with distance comes clarity and yes, validation that I did not cause it.
I've thought many times, not being there or involved or in contact and he still is spiraling down. Wonder what he's blaming now? And he knows its not there for him anymore, so I have to say that continued contact allows him to grasp at straws again. He desperatly uses any contact as the "reason" he drinks.
So, I find myself not really WANTING contact. The less amunition the better. When we do communicate via email, its short and general on my end. And since he is ALL about him, that works for him. If he gets into manipulation mode (suggesting we "see" each other to see if we still love each other) I excuse myself from the conversation.
Now i wonder, if "tapering off" is akin to the alcoholic thinking they can quit that way?
Peace
I've thought many times, not being there or involved or in contact and he still is spiraling down. Wonder what he's blaming now? And he knows its not there for him anymore, so I have to say that continued contact allows him to grasp at straws again. He desperatly uses any contact as the "reason" he drinks.
So, I find myself not really WANTING contact. The less amunition the better. When we do communicate via email, its short and general on my end. And since he is ALL about him, that works for him. If he gets into manipulation mode (suggesting we "see" each other to see if we still love each other) I excuse myself from the conversation.
Now i wonder, if "tapering off" is akin to the alcoholic thinking they can quit that way?
Peace
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Hey there CE
Ok, here's what I learned in al-anon. If you want to play the "what if's game" you have to play _both_ sides of the coin.
What if he makes it? Well then he has a happy life and so do you.
But you have to play the other side too.
What if he does _not_? You get sucked into the roller coaster _again_ and this time it will be worse.
So which way do you want to play it?
umm.... that is _exactly_ what you are doing. Supporting _emotionally_. He gets his act together and _earns_ back your trust. He earns that trust by respecting your boundaries and building for himself a life that he can be proud of, and that you find attractive.
Alcoholics all over the world get sober every day on their own. They support each other in that effort. So he can get his life straightened out just fine the way everybody else does.
I don't see a "broken" family. I see a woman who's doing a durn fine job of taking care of herself and her loved ones. There's nothing "broken" in what you are doing. _He_ is the one who chose not to take care of his responsibilities. Not you.
hmmmm.... how about "head up" with pride in what your are doing for yourself?
ummmm.... why does he need "fairness"? Fairness won't get him sober. It won't get your life back on track either. What he needs is to stick to his recovery and _earn_ back your trust. As long as you think that you have to be "fair" by giving away your trust neither one of you is going to move forward.
I learned in al-anon that my trust is a most precious gift that people have to _earn_. They don't get it for free, and they don't get it out of "fairness" either.
Mike
Originally Posted by CE Girl
...the all powerfull thinking of, "what if he makes it this time?" ....
What if he makes it? Well then he has a happy life and so do you.
But you have to play the other side too.
What if he does _not_? You get sucked into the roller coaster _again_ and this time it will be worse.
So which way do you want to play it?
Originally Posted by CE Girl
... "why can't we support each other?" ....
Alcoholics all over the world get sober every day on their own. They support each other in that effort. So he can get his life straightened out just fine the way everybody else does.
Originally Posted by CE Girl
... I don't want the 'broken family' either ....
Originally Posted by CE Girl
... Head down, plow forward to my goal. No alcohol in my life. ....
Originally Posted by CE Girl
... to be fair to him ....
I learned in al-anon that my trust is a most precious gift that people have to _earn_. They don't get it for free, and they don't get it out of "fairness" either.
Mike
full of hope
Join Date: Feb 2007
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I knew tapering off was going to be a bad idea. 
I just wish it would or could work. I guess the biggest problem I see with it is it gives my AH false hope. If we've gone a few days without contact and then have it again, it makes him contact me more. That's not right or fair. That is me manipulating him and I don't want to do that.
Trust is a precious gift, Mike, and I think the person I trust least right now is myself.
I just wish it would or could work. I guess the biggest problem I see with it is it gives my AH false hope. If we've gone a few days without contact and then have it again, it makes him contact me more. That's not right or fair. That is me manipulating him and I don't want to do that.
Trust is a precious gift, Mike, and I think the person I trust least right now is myself.
My Cape Is at The Cleaners
Join Date: Nov 2004
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After looking back at my experiences and those on the board who keep subjecting themselves to pain, I feel that no contact is best.
I think this hit and miss contact only serves as false hope for your self.
What’s the point of picking at wound, let it heal.
I think this hit and miss contact only serves as false hope for your self.
What’s the point of picking at wound, let it heal.
full of hope
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,170
Okay, here's what I want to know...is everyone who is saying, "no contact" saying that because of your own experiences?
I mean, do you think that you could have done it knowing what you know now or was it just something you had to learn? UGH! I don't know.
I can so see the down side of tapering. Because basically, I feel like I'm just kidding myself. I can go days without contact but I have not been able to maintain no contact all together even though I have no desire to return to the relationship as is.
Is there such a thing as healthy contact? I know that's a shot in the dark.
I mean, do you think that you could have done it knowing what you know now or was it just something you had to learn? UGH! I don't know.
I can so see the down side of tapering. Because basically, I feel like I'm just kidding myself. I can go days without contact but I have not been able to maintain no contact all together even though I have no desire to return to the relationship as is.
Is there such a thing as healthy contact? I know that's a shot in the dark.
My Cape Is at The Cleaners
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Metropolis
Posts: 1,117
Healthy contact with a active "A"? Wait,,, I had to stop laughing so I could type.
A, NO!
Work on yourself a little more, hit some meetings and one important thing, start getting a life.
It works!
A, NO!
Work on yourself a little more, hit some meetings and one important thing, start getting a life.
It works!
full of hope
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,170
Funny, Mr. C! I was trying to be serious! But, I knew the answer before you said it! UGH! Wishful thinking I guess.
It's hard to let go of him completely. Even though I feel like I am getting a life (and loving it!) a part of me is still holding onto him...for what? just in case things work out!?
Hmm...that one even cracked me up!
But, I knew the answer before you said it! UGH! Wishful thinking I guess.It's hard to let go of him completely. Even though I feel like I am getting a life (and loving it!) a part of me is still holding onto him...for what? just in case things work out!?
Hmm...that one even cracked me up!
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chero... question...
do you have any other exes that you kept in contact with after the break up?
i sure don't!
i don't know what our deal is with A's... i don't know why we keep subjecting ourselves to more after it should be "over," but if you applied the same rules that you did to the end of your previous relationships, would you still be in contact with your husband, even though you're separated?
last spring, a good handful of years after a break up, i heard from an ex of mine. things are friendly now, and i feel like we could talk if we really wanted to, but we couldn't have right after we split up. one day you might be able to have a healthy conversation with your hubby, but probably not while he's still drinking and not really thinking that you're tapering off with the intent to be done completely.
do you have any other exes that you kept in contact with after the break up?
i sure don't!
i don't know what our deal is with A's... i don't know why we keep subjecting ourselves to more after it should be "over," but if you applied the same rules that you did to the end of your previous relationships, would you still be in contact with your husband, even though you're separated?
last spring, a good handful of years after a break up, i heard from an ex of mine. things are friendly now, and i feel like we could talk if we really wanted to, but we couldn't have right after we split up. one day you might be able to have a healthy conversation with your hubby, but probably not while he's still drinking and not really thinking that you're tapering off with the intent to be done completely.
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Ah, Mr. C., you nailed it on the right on the head with your no-nonsense approach - which I, personally, love! Would I have contact with my AH? Nope. No way. Nada. I'd change my cell phone number, block him on both my hotmail accounts, and leave no forwarding address. I'm serious.
No, it's not out of malignant hatred for him ... it's just that what's left of him is no longer the "him" I once knew. That man is dead and gone - pfffffttttt! I'll hold onto the fond memories of a sweet man from long ago, but what's left is someone who looks like a homeless person and is a total stranger to me. Not the kind of person with whom I would desire contact. Period.
Chero, waiting for an A to get sobriety is living with "what if." Right now you're dealing with "what is." Accept him for what he is now and live your own life accordingly.
No, it's not out of malignant hatred for him ... it's just that what's left of him is no longer the "him" I once knew. That man is dead and gone - pfffffttttt! I'll hold onto the fond memories of a sweet man from long ago, but what's left is someone who looks like a homeless person and is a total stranger to me. Not the kind of person with whom I would desire contact. Period.
Chero, waiting for an A to get sobriety is living with "what if." Right now you're dealing with "what is." Accept him for what he is now and live your own life accordingly.
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Great thread!
My X used his "recovery" as a hook for me. I emotionally supported his "getting serious this time" and got burned - big time.
He invaded my bubble of Al-anon and my "individualized" recovery is that I am avoiding him by NOT going to Al-anon. He would try to either show up or get his AA buddies who attend these things to give him a report on me, my life and what I'm up to, so I wouldn't be able to really open up. I don't want him to know how I'm doing and I don't care to know how he is doing. I live in a small no stop-light, take your own trash to the dump town. It's not like I have a lot of meetings to choose from.
Until I trust myself to be able to have some kind of contact with him - it's NO CONTACT all the way...not because it's what I'm supposed to do, but because I know I have to to survive, to move on and break free of the "old" life.
I do not support him in any way in his recovery, except to maintain no contact - he doesn't need my support, just like I don't need his. In fact, he'd do better without my support.
He chose to throw me and my support out of his life, then tried a month later to get it back...giving him support after the way he treated me will only teach the dog to salivate after he bites Pavlov.
It's classical conditioning - what are you teaching him?
My X used his "recovery" as a hook for me. I emotionally supported his "getting serious this time" and got burned - big time.
He invaded my bubble of Al-anon and my "individualized" recovery is that I am avoiding him by NOT going to Al-anon. He would try to either show up or get his AA buddies who attend these things to give him a report on me, my life and what I'm up to, so I wouldn't be able to really open up. I don't want him to know how I'm doing and I don't care to know how he is doing. I live in a small no stop-light, take your own trash to the dump town. It's not like I have a lot of meetings to choose from.
Until I trust myself to be able to have some kind of contact with him - it's NO CONTACT all the way...not because it's what I'm supposed to do, but because I know I have to to survive, to move on and break free of the "old" life.
I do not support him in any way in his recovery, except to maintain no contact - he doesn't need my support, just like I don't need his. In fact, he'd do better without my support.
He chose to throw me and my support out of his life, then tried a month later to get it back...giving him support after the way he treated me will only teach the dog to salivate after he bites Pavlov.
It's classical conditioning - what are you teaching him?
full of hope
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,170
Okay, I see the point. It's funny how I felt like I've been doing so good but really I'm just not being honest with myself. In, I wouldn't keep contact with an X after a breakup, but then again, I wasn't married to any of my Xs.
I don't feel like I've been waiting for him to get sober, Prodigal, but now I'm stuck with figuring out what I am trying to get out of keeping contact with him???
I don't feel like I've been waiting for him to get sober, Prodigal, but now I'm stuck with figuring out what I am trying to get out of keeping contact with him???
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