talk about enableing!!!
it is what it is...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 179
Oh My! Thanks Holy Cow!! Come on guys!! Easy!! We were all in the same thought process ebv was once too. Let's take her hand here.
EBV there is much to learn here. I'm glad you keep posting. Sometimes we come across harsh but it is really meant to help you is all.
If you're here for help you will get it. It is a long road but be open to the suggestions. The biggest and hardest thing I learned here is that I have to learn to live for myself. That I have to detach from my A to live the life I want. That doesn't mean you have to leave yours if you're not ready that means that you seperate yourself so that his problems don't become yours. I've learned that my own everyday life is challenging enough without trying to make his better and fix his mistakes. You can't fix him or change the way he wants to live, just don't let his bad ways dominate your life. I have been with mine on and off for 16 years and believe me, I wish I hadn't given him so much of my life. I love him very much and I always will. But I wish I had loved me a little more.
Stay here, keep posting, there are lots of friends to make here. Thanks for sharing.
B
EBV there is much to learn here. I'm glad you keep posting. Sometimes we come across harsh but it is really meant to help you is all.
If you're here for help you will get it. It is a long road but be open to the suggestions. The biggest and hardest thing I learned here is that I have to learn to live for myself. That I have to detach from my A to live the life I want. That doesn't mean you have to leave yours if you're not ready that means that you seperate yourself so that his problems don't become yours. I've learned that my own everyday life is challenging enough without trying to make his better and fix his mistakes. You can't fix him or change the way he wants to live, just don't let his bad ways dominate your life. I have been with mine on and off for 16 years and believe me, I wish I hadn't given him so much of my life. I love him very much and I always will. But I wish I had loved me a little more.
Stay here, keep posting, there are lots of friends to make here. Thanks for sharing.
B
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: In Search of Finding ME!
Posts: 1,246
Originally Posted by ebv 
I had counseling afew years ago, she said this goes way back to when I was around 11 yrs. old, my dad drank alot and I would have to drive him around to places, (he quit 10 yrs. ago) she said I look for people that I think needs help since that's what I was used to growing up. as I think back, that's what every relationship I've ever been in was, looks like I keep going back to the one I really love.
So, my question is.....do you want to stay with this type of man or are you ready to try something different?
I'd suggest continuing your counseling so that you can really learn about yourself and get educated about codependancy. Then you can decide just what kind of man and life that you really want and strive for that.
You mentioned above that you are doing nothing for yourself or your recovery.
Nothing changes if nothing changes.
If you want to be well, you have to be the one to break the cycle.
So, whatcha wanna do?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
People, kindly go outside and breath some air. Attacking each other is _not_ the way to show people the benefits of recovery.
ebv, please disregard those posters who are having a bad day. They are usually kind, compassionate people who are willing to serve as examples of a life well lived.
Mike
ebv, please disregard those posters who are having a bad day. They are usually kind, compassionate people who are willing to serve as examples of a life well lived.
Mike
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
Hi EBV... What I know about recovery and helping addicts is a LOT more than when I first got here.
I would bet that most of us have either thought of doing what you suggested, or went ahead and did it... and found out it didn't work so well. So, if you are like me, you will go on and try a few more things... I had to do that myself, even after I found some folks who told me it wouldn't work.
Many folks on here have tried... "talking" (sometimes incessantly!) to their addict - trying to get the addict to SEE and to UNDERSTAND how badly they are hurting themselves, their loved ones, their children, their parents and their partners. Almost to a person, this has not worked.
Some of us have tried... "controlling" (sometimes dangerously!) the addict by restricting what they have access to and throwing out drugs, paraphernalia and booze. Almost to a person, this has not worked.
Many of us have tried... "threats" ...saying we WILL do something drastic.. leave, call the cops, hurt ourselves, hurt others and then have not followed through. This (of course) does not work very well.
Some of us left. Simple. Just left. Put the addict BEHIND us... then promptly got involved with another needy, often addicted, man. That also does not work very well.
There are some things people here HAVE done that seems to help. For me, the main thing was finding some Alanon meetings and attending about 3 times a week (at first). Today, I go about 1 - 2 meetings per week and attend conferences and workshops and study groups.
I have read... a LOT about addiction. Articles and books and workbooks and websites. I've learned a lot about the ADDICT'S problem, and as I worked a bit harder in my Alanon program, I began to see the depth of MY problem.
Things are going well enough for me today that I also have trouble remembering back to what it was like before I had so MUCH information in my head about addiction and so many positive EXPERIENCES in my heart.
My hope is that you can find a similar path and find some peace and serenity.
(((hugs))))
I would bet that most of us have either thought of doing what you suggested, or went ahead and did it... and found out it didn't work so well. So, if you are like me, you will go on and try a few more things... I had to do that myself, even after I found some folks who told me it wouldn't work.
Many folks on here have tried... "talking" (sometimes incessantly!) to their addict - trying to get the addict to SEE and to UNDERSTAND how badly they are hurting themselves, their loved ones, their children, their parents and their partners. Almost to a person, this has not worked.
Some of us have tried... "controlling" (sometimes dangerously!) the addict by restricting what they have access to and throwing out drugs, paraphernalia and booze. Almost to a person, this has not worked.
Many of us have tried... "threats" ...saying we WILL do something drastic.. leave, call the cops, hurt ourselves, hurt others and then have not followed through. This (of course) does not work very well.
Some of us left. Simple. Just left. Put the addict BEHIND us... then promptly got involved with another needy, often addicted, man. That also does not work very well.
There are some things people here HAVE done that seems to help. For me, the main thing was finding some Alanon meetings and attending about 3 times a week (at first). Today, I go about 1 - 2 meetings per week and attend conferences and workshops and study groups.
I have read... a LOT about addiction. Articles and books and workbooks and websites. I've learned a lot about the ADDICT'S problem, and as I worked a bit harder in my Alanon program, I began to see the depth of MY problem.
Things are going well enough for me today that I also have trouble remembering back to what it was like before I had so MUCH information in my head about addiction and so many positive EXPERIENCES in my heart.
My hope is that you can find a similar path and find some peace and serenity.
(((hugs))))
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Keepin' my side of the litterbox clean
Posts: 2,136
I don't know if my questions posed to ebv would be considered "harsh." I asked in order to find out why she is staying with this man and what benefits she found in doing so.
ebv, he has to want to get recovery. You can drag him to meetings, alcohol/drug-free get-togethers, tent revivals, whatever. He WILL become quite annoyed if he does not wish to have anyone interfere with his addiction.
You don't own his addiction, he does. Sometimes we have to just get out of their way and let them sink or swim. I understand you want the man back you initially knew. That guy is gone and he may not come back. You can move heaven and earth and he won't be the man you want him to be unless he wants it. Period.
I'd suggest that you take a break from trying to help him for awhile. This may be a very good time for you to begin the process of discovering yourself.
ebv, he has to want to get recovery. You can drag him to meetings, alcohol/drug-free get-togethers, tent revivals, whatever. He WILL become quite annoyed if he does not wish to have anyone interfere with his addiction.
You don't own his addiction, he does. Sometimes we have to just get out of their way and let them sink or swim. I understand you want the man back you initially knew. That guy is gone and he may not come back. You can move heaven and earth and he won't be the man you want him to be unless he wants it. Period.
I'd suggest that you take a break from trying to help him for awhile. This may be a very good time for you to begin the process of discovering yourself.
Royalty
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 366
Originally Posted by prodigal
to begin the process
It's a start...don't discourage it.
up and out
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 185
Your came here for help (and you will receive it) but your posting this helps all of us remember where we were when we began.
Reading about your plans to make him feel crappy reminds me so much of my own behaviour and it also refreshes my memory of just how bad it was.
Because I am codependent and all I wanted to do was "help", it really brought my recovery great strides when I realized that I needed to get out of the way and give him the dignity to fall on his butt. I'm sure you know by now that alcoholics have a "bottom" and manipulation (like the cash plan or any of my numerous plans) only hinder their recovery.
We have a bottom as well my friend and although it makes me a little angry to see you go through this, I realize that when you hit your bottom and you've learned enough, you too will rise up and begin recovery.
My father was an alcoholic as well and I too look for emotionally, spiritually unavailable men. They flicker in the crowd like a beacon in the night and i'm drawn to them like a moth to fire so i'm not dating right now.....simply because I don't trust myself to make good decisions in a mate.
You aren't alone. Keep posting/reading/learning. You will get it. I promise you will.......but only when you are ready.
As for him.....consider giving him the dignity of free will. Your higher power gives that to you.
Much love to you.
Reading about your plans to make him feel crappy reminds me so much of my own behaviour and it also refreshes my memory of just how bad it was.
Because I am codependent and all I wanted to do was "help", it really brought my recovery great strides when I realized that I needed to get out of the way and give him the dignity to fall on his butt. I'm sure you know by now that alcoholics have a "bottom" and manipulation (like the cash plan or any of my numerous plans) only hinder their recovery.
We have a bottom as well my friend and although it makes me a little angry to see you go through this, I realize that when you hit your bottom and you've learned enough, you too will rise up and begin recovery.
My father was an alcoholic as well and I too look for emotionally, spiritually unavailable men. They flicker in the crowd like a beacon in the night and i'm drawn to them like a moth to fire so i'm not dating right now.....simply because I don't trust myself to make good decisions in a mate.
You aren't alone. Keep posting/reading/learning. You will get it. I promise you will.......but only when you are ready.
As for him.....consider giving him the dignity of free will. Your higher power gives that to you.
Much love to you.
Last edited by appleblaster; 05-31-2007 at 05:39 AM. Reason: added something
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 54
Thanks everyone, how does this sound? print out all of these replies, show them to him, tell him how I feel and if he doesn't get help, to stay away because I'm not going to loose everything I have because of drugs, guess his family doesn't care or believe he's into drugs, I can't help him if his mom keeps taking care of him.
up and out
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 185
You are a very creative thinker ebv but if you show him these pages, you will not get the outcome you are hoping for. The following post from another area of this site came to mind. When I begin thinking that I can influence an alcoholic/addict's behaviour or recovery I read it. Check it out......
What Addicts Do
My name's Jon. I'm an addict. And this is what addicts do. You cannot nor will not change my behavior. You cannot make me treat you better, let alone with any respect. All I care about, all I think about, is my needs and how to go about fufilling them. You are a tool to me, something to use. When I say I love you I am lying through my teeth, because love is impossible for someone in active addiction. I wouldn't be using if I loved myself, and since I don't, I cannot love you.
My feelings are so pushed down and numbed by my drugs that I could be considered sociopathic. I have no empathy for you or anyone else. It doesn't faze me that I hurt you, leave you hungry, lie to you, cheat on you and steal from you.
My behavior cannot and will not change until i make a decison to stop using/drinking and then follow it up with a plan of action.
And until I make that decsion, I will hurt you again and again and again.
Stop being surprised.
I am an addict. And that's what addicts do.
What Addicts Do
My name's Jon. I'm an addict. And this is what addicts do. You cannot nor will not change my behavior. You cannot make me treat you better, let alone with any respect. All I care about, all I think about, is my needs and how to go about fufilling them. You are a tool to me, something to use. When I say I love you I am lying through my teeth, because love is impossible for someone in active addiction. I wouldn't be using if I loved myself, and since I don't, I cannot love you.
My feelings are so pushed down and numbed by my drugs that I could be considered sociopathic. I have no empathy for you or anyone else. It doesn't faze me that I hurt you, leave you hungry, lie to you, cheat on you and steal from you.
My behavior cannot and will not change until i make a decison to stop using/drinking and then follow it up with a plan of action.
And until I make that decsion, I will hurt you again and again and again.
Stop being surprised.
I am an addict. And that's what addicts do.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 54
Appleblaster,
I read that post to him last week and he actually listened to it and asked me what kind of drugs he was talking about, told him I didn't know, if I would of thought in time I would have said meth, also read him another one he listened to and asked who wrote it. that's why I think he might pay attention to these posts.
I read that post to him last week and he actually listened to it and asked me what kind of drugs he was talking about, told him I didn't know, if I would of thought in time I would have said meth, also read him another one he listened to and asked who wrote it. that's why I think he might pay attention to these posts.
CindeRella is proof that a new pair of shoes can change your life!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Spreading my wings
Posts: 7,163
Originally Posted by BigSis
Hi EBV... What I know about recovery and helping addicts is a LOT more than when I first got here.
I would bet that most of us have either thought of doing what you suggested, or went ahead and did it... and found out it didn't work so well. So, if you are like me, you will go on and try a few more things... I had to do that myself, even after I found some folks who told me it wouldn't work.
Many folks on here have tried... "talking" (sometimes incessantly!) to their addict - trying to get the addict to SEE and to UNDERSTAND how badly they are hurting themselves, their loved ones, their children, their parents and their partners. Almost to a person, this has not worked.
Some of us have tried... "controlling" (sometimes dangerously!) the addict by restricting what they have access to and throwing out drugs, paraphernalia and booze. Almost to a person, this has not worked.
Many of us have tried... "threats" ...saying we WILL do something drastic.. leave, call the cops, hurt ourselves, hurt others and then have not followed through. This (of course) does not work very well.
Some of us left. Simple. Just left. Put the addict BEHIND us... then promptly got involved with another needy, often addicted, man. That also does not work very well.
There are some things people here HAVE done that seems to help. For me, the main thing was finding some Alanon meetings and attending about 3 times a week (at first). Today, I go about 1 - 2 meetings per week and attend conferences and workshops and study groups.
I have read... a LOT about addiction. Articles and books and workbooks and websites. I've learned a lot about the ADDICT'S problem, and as I worked a bit harder in my Alanon program, I began to see the depth of MY problem.
Things are going well enough for me today that I also have trouble remembering back to what it was like before I had so MUCH information in my head about addiction and so many positive EXPERIENCES in my heart.
My hope is that you can find a similar path and find some peace and serenity.
(((hugs))))
I would bet that most of us have either thought of doing what you suggested, or went ahead and did it... and found out it didn't work so well. So, if you are like me, you will go on and try a few more things... I had to do that myself, even after I found some folks who told me it wouldn't work.
Many folks on here have tried... "talking" (sometimes incessantly!) to their addict - trying to get the addict to SEE and to UNDERSTAND how badly they are hurting themselves, their loved ones, their children, their parents and their partners. Almost to a person, this has not worked.
Some of us have tried... "controlling" (sometimes dangerously!) the addict by restricting what they have access to and throwing out drugs, paraphernalia and booze. Almost to a person, this has not worked.
Many of us have tried... "threats" ...saying we WILL do something drastic.. leave, call the cops, hurt ourselves, hurt others and then have not followed through. This (of course) does not work very well.
Some of us left. Simple. Just left. Put the addict BEHIND us... then promptly got involved with another needy, often addicted, man. That also does not work very well.
There are some things people here HAVE done that seems to help. For me, the main thing was finding some Alanon meetings and attending about 3 times a week (at first). Today, I go about 1 - 2 meetings per week and attend conferences and workshops and study groups.
I have read... a LOT about addiction. Articles and books and workbooks and websites. I've learned a lot about the ADDICT'S problem, and as I worked a bit harder in my Alanon program, I began to see the depth of MY problem.
Things are going well enough for me today that I also have trouble remembering back to what it was like before I had so MUCH information in my head about addiction and so many positive EXPERIENCES in my heart.
My hope is that you can find a similar path and find some peace and serenity.
(((hugs))))
Originally Posted by DesertEyes
People, kindly go outside and breath some air. Attacking each other is _not_ the way to show people the benefits of recovery.
ebv, please disregard those posters who are having a bad day. They are usually kind, compassionate people who are willing to serve as examples of a life well lived.
Mike
ebv, please disregard those posters who are having a bad day. They are usually kind, compassionate people who are willing to serve as examples of a life well lived.
Mike
Welcome ebv! (((Hugs)))
I could not say anything that was not said above any better! Reading your posts reminded me of when I was where you are and still sometimes fall back on my path of recovery. We are all in different stages and IMHO I have felt attacked by others on here that appear to be harsh because they are further in recovery, it is a fact it happens. I believe what they are trying to do is help you in a way that they may feel will help you too see that you need to do for yourself and not for your A. (My counselor said something to me one day and it made me cry so hard but my God she was right and It took that to make me wake up and start feeling good about ME again and see that I just kept repeating the same thing and not LEARNING!) -hence what some try to do in here I feel which sometimes is good and sometimes it is not!
It can be frustrating to see someone such as yourself start to go through the stages that some of us have been through (BigSIs said this perfect) What we do and MOST ALL of us have and still do alot of what is stated in this post!
SR is a great source for guidance-I know alot of peoples wisdom, strength, courage and expierence have been the light in my eyes to see what I have done or rather am doing to myself if I involve myself with an A, when it is not only the behavior of the A that keeps me stuck it is my own behavior in the way I react to what the A does.
I know also all of this typing right now to you is a little much (as I read your posts I remember being where you are and nothing anyone said or anything I read really sunk into my head.
In your own time and hopefully more time in SR and counseling you will learn that you are worth more and deserve better for yourself.
Hang in there ebv-(((hugs)))
I know it is hard and you think he is interested in what you read to him but take it from others in here THEY DO NOT CARE they only care because they know it keeps you hooked and allows them to continue in the addiction! Be careful honey
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 54
Rella927,
Maybe I see how well my daughter is doing after she got off dope and think if she can do it anyone can (I know everyone is diffrent) anyway she's telling me the same thing everyone else is " he's got to want to change" guess I'm trying to push him towards changing, if I can't I'll have a long road ahead of me to move on, it's nice to know I'm not the only one going threw this and can talk to everyone here. prayers to all.
Maybe I see how well my daughter is doing after she got off dope and think if she can do it anyone can (I know everyone is diffrent) anyway she's telling me the same thing everyone else is " he's got to want to change" guess I'm trying to push him towards changing, if I can't I'll have a long road ahead of me to move on, it's nice to know I'm not the only one going threw this and can talk to everyone here. prayers to all.
CindeRella is proof that a new pair of shoes can change your life!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Spreading my wings
Posts: 7,163
EBV hon she is right "HE's got to want to change" being the operative word! Just like with yourself no one can change you unless you want to change.
IMHO your daughter is very wise!!
By pushing him towards it is a waste of energy on anyones part-it will not work! Print out BigSis post and reread it over and over-
Try maybe going to an AL-Alanon meeting if you can or even an AA meeting-just try it does not mean you have to go again. I was pushed into going when I first went and that is why it took so long for me to go back-we cannot push each other into doing something-we have to do it for ourselves.
EBV you are not alone-we are all on the path to recovery some ahead some behind but we are here for each other and here for you!
Please keep posting and reading! Go into other forums and do some reading as well! That always is an eye opener.
The focus needs to be on what you are going to do for yourself to make YOU FEEL BETTER not HIM! It is a waste of energy trust me on that one!
((((Hugs))))
IMHO your daughter is very wise!!
By pushing him towards it is a waste of energy on anyones part-it will not work! Print out BigSis post and reread it over and over-
Try maybe going to an AL-Alanon meeting if you can or even an AA meeting-just try it does not mean you have to go again. I was pushed into going when I first went and that is why it took so long for me to go back-we cannot push each other into doing something-we have to do it for ourselves.
EBV you are not alone-we are all on the path to recovery some ahead some behind but we are here for each other and here for you!
Please keep posting and reading! Go into other forums and do some reading as well! That always is an eye opener.
The focus needs to be on what you are going to do for yourself to make YOU FEEL BETTER not HIM! It is a waste of energy trust me on that one!
((((Hugs))))
Acting not reacting
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: My happy place
Posts: 1,788
Ebv..have you asked yourself what you want to accomplish by getting him to clean up?
I asked myself that.
Me personally, what was I trying to accomplish by getting him to stop drinking?
I wanted to be happy
I wanted a financially secure future
I wanted a husband who didnt embarass me
I wanted friends back, most had lost touch with me
I wanted to stop being stolen from
I wanted to be loved
I wanted to be appreciated
I didnt want to be yelled at
I wanted to stop feeling trapped
I wanted to start having fun
Then, I asked myself all the ways I could get these things..what were all the ways, not just my preferred way (him getting sober).
Do you know what want to accomplish from him getting sober?
I asked myself that.
Me personally, what was I trying to accomplish by getting him to stop drinking?
I wanted to be happy
I wanted a financially secure future
I wanted a husband who didnt embarass me
I wanted friends back, most had lost touch with me
I wanted to stop being stolen from
I wanted to be loved
I wanted to be appreciated
I didnt want to be yelled at
I wanted to stop feeling trapped
I wanted to start having fun
Then, I asked myself all the ways I could get these things..what were all the ways, not just my preferred way (him getting sober).
Do you know what want to accomplish from him getting sober?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,579
Have you read "Under the Influence" or "Getting Them Sober" (see http://www.GettingThemSober.com to "try" a few chapters) ? Those books and others have been very helpful to me.
Sorry; I forgot my manners.....welcome! Glad you have joined us and hope to see you here often.
Sorry; I forgot my manners.....welcome! Glad you have joined us and hope to see you here often.
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,826
He's chosen to waste his life on drugs and alcohol.
I thought I could help people too but then I realized it's only possible to help those who want help. Ones that want help are impossible to help.
Earthworm
I thought I could help people too but then I realized it's only possible to help those who want help. Ones that want help are impossible to help.
Earthworm
Originally Posted by ebv
We'll we've been togeather off and on for 21 years and I don't want to see him waste what's left of his life on dope, he is so different now than when I met him, I want the old him back and will do what ever I have to so I can help him,without enableing him, my plan was to make him feel crappy when he wanted me to buy him something. There's a NA/AA party in a town close to here in July, I'm working on getting him to go to it so he can see you don't have to be high to have fun.
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,826
I understand where you are coming from, but the road to get him to see the light will be a lot longer than the one for you to move on.
You mentioned you are going back to school, that would be a fantastic way to start moving on.
Earthworm
You mentioned you are going back to school, that would be a fantastic way to start moving on.
Earthworm
Originally Posted by ebv
Rella927,
Maybe I see how well my daughter is doing after she got off dope and think if she can do it anyone can (I know everyone is diffrent) anyway she's telling me the same thing everyone else is " he's got to want to change" guess I'm trying to push him towards changing, if I can't I'll have a long road ahead of me to move on, it's nice to know I'm not the only one going threw this and can talk to everyone here. prayers to all.
Maybe I see how well my daughter is doing after she got off dope and think if she can do it anyone can (I know everyone is diffrent) anyway she's telling me the same thing everyone else is " he's got to want to change" guess I'm trying to push him towards changing, if I can't I'll have a long road ahead of me to move on, it's nice to know I'm not the only one going threw this and can talk to everyone here. prayers to all.
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