OT: More Pet Food Recalls to Come
CindeRella is proof that a new pair of shoes can change your life!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Spreading my wings
Posts: 7,163
ICU that is what I do too! It is an awesome way to feed your animals! I have two Lhasa Apsos mother and daughter....the daughter is 16 and mommy 18 and diabetic the mother. She is currently sick very sick....due to going away and these people (new care) taking care of them did not give her enough water and she became dehydrated and put in the vet on IV for two days...she is home now....but like a floppy bunny...she is not in pain. She is still eating slightly and drinking water. She gives kisses still and is aware of everything going on...it is hard having her so long and now I really think that she is dying. It was a scare for me because I did buy this food mixture stuff for her to get her to eat and did not give to much to her THANK GOD! It was on the list!
My boyfriend gives his dog those Dingo Bones and the chicken jerky treats by dingo are the ones that are on that list now. (These maybe what you heard)
It is ashame so much is going on now with the foods! Turn too making food like ICU and I it is the greatest thing for them! I have not used the solid gold stuff but have heard it is great! My boyfriends dog gets carrots as a treat as well!
Hang in there pet owners! Prays and hugs to all the furry kids
My boyfriend gives his dog those Dingo Bones and the chicken jerky treats by dingo are the ones that are on that list now. (These maybe what you heard)
It is ashame so much is going on now with the foods! Turn too making food like ICU and I it is the greatest thing for them! I have not used the solid gold stuff but have heard it is great! My boyfriends dog gets carrots as a treat as well!
Hang in there pet owners! Prays and hugs to all the furry kids
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 782
Treat info: SAN FRANCISCO, March 31, 2007—As a precautionary measure, Del Monte Pet Products is voluntarily recalling select product codes of its pet treat products sold under the Jerky Treats®, Gravy Train® Beef Sticks and Pounce Meaty Morsels® brands as well as select dog snack and wet dog food products sold under private label brands. A complete list of affected brands and products is below.
The Company took this voluntary recall action immediately after learning this morning from the FDA that wheat gluten supplied to Del Monte Pet Products from a specific manufacturing facility in China contained melamine. Melamine is a substance not approved for use in food. The FDA made this finding as part of its ongoing investigation into the recent pet food recall.
The Company took this voluntary recall action immediately after learning this morning from the FDA that wheat gluten supplied to Del Monte Pet Products from a specific manufacturing facility in China contained melamine. Melamine is a substance not approved for use in food. The FDA made this finding as part of its ongoing investigation into the recent pet food recall.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: midwest
Posts: 231
I just went on the purina website and only a small amount of alpo is being recalled ,just some made at one of their many plants. Also none of their other dog foods or any of their cat foods!! I am glad because our cat eats friskies .
So I would feel safe if I were you to buy anything else purina except the certain alpo cans on the recall list, and continuing feeding dog food. Just check every couple days to see if there are any more, and try not to worry!
So I would feel safe if I were you to buy anything else purina except the certain alpo cans on the recall list, and continuing feeding dog food. Just check every couple days to see if there are any more, and try not to worry!
cunning. baffling. powerful.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 183
Hello.
I am in veterinary school and we have been kept up to date on this issue as obviously it is one of great concern in our profession.
It is easy to panic when the news gives dire reports and you feel like you don't have all the facts and each day the facts seem to change. However, from our end, we have only seen one animal that has become sick from this food in our teaching hospital.
That's right, one cat. Our teaching hospital sees hundreds of cases per day.
The FDA does control ingredients in pet food and they are involved and they have cleared all Menu Foods manufactured after March 6th as safe for consumption.
A batch of wheat gluten contaminated with a chemical called Melamine (a fertilizer).
I'm going to pull some information out of some resources closed to you, but that are open to veterinary medical professionals here...
Quoted from the Veterinary Information Network: (my explanations are in italics)
Here is a good link to the FDA's site that explains what has been recalled and why: http://www.fda.gov/cvm/MenuFoodRecallFAQ.htm
Now, if you have fed your pet recalled food and you see the following symptoms lethargy, no appetite, vomiting - see a vet immediately. You would see these signs within one to three days of feeding the food. If it's been a week, your animal should be fine. However, if you are still concerned - see your vet anyway, because I'm not a vet.
If your pet is sick, the current stats (on the american veterinary medical association website: http://www.avma.org/) say that it will most likely be a cat. Your vet will take X-Rays and draw blood and urine for testing.
This, however is the bulletin sent to vets by the AVMA about what to look for:
The ACIVM sent a similar bulletin.
If you are feeding your pet a non-recalled food and you see these signs (lethargy, no appetite, vomiting) - see your vet. If you don't, don't worry.
Despite what has been said about melamine and kidney function, the ACVIM (american college of veterinary internal medicine) is recommending that all animals who have eaten recalled foods recieve the following lab tests: Blood Chemistry and Urinalysis to establish baseline kidney function. The costs for these tests is minimal and if your vet is cooperative they can be done without an exam fee. (ie. a technician draws the blood and runs the tests in house - cost is approx $40) You can read about the ACVIM here: http://www.acvim.org/.
One more thing - I know home cooking has been mentioned here. I have mixed feelings on this one. I know its benefits and I have seen many problems with it. The ACVIM adds this:
Home made animal diets are not a "simple solution". Animals are NOT like us and they have different nutritional requirements. Anyone entering into the area of making their pet's diet needs to educate themselves and would be wise to find a vet who is on board (and there are many).
Veterinary diets are not just "another way to gouge the customer" - they have a prescribed need with specific ingredients often designed to treat specific conditions and ailments. You have no idea how much diet enters into every single class I take and they work. There is a common perception that the medical profession exists to rip people off and it is just not the case so please - consider home cooking but absolutely know what you are doing first. I have seen horrible outcomes from this. (Like dead animals.)
And the companies are attempting a pro-active approach to avoid a class-action lawsuit so please consider lodging your complaints here:
I suspect even the ACVIM reccomended blood and urine checks could fall under this and may even ultimately be reimbursed. (we can hope)
I know this is a lot of information - but it is what the vets are getting (and I've filtered through it). If I've quelled some fears I've done my job.
I hope you and your pets are well.
-e
I am in veterinary school and we have been kept up to date on this issue as obviously it is one of great concern in our profession.
It is easy to panic when the news gives dire reports and you feel like you don't have all the facts and each day the facts seem to change. However, from our end, we have only seen one animal that has become sick from this food in our teaching hospital.
That's right, one cat. Our teaching hospital sees hundreds of cases per day.
The FDA does control ingredients in pet food and they are involved and they have cleared all Menu Foods manufactured after March 6th as safe for consumption.
A batch of wheat gluten contaminated with a chemical called Melamine (a fertilizer).
I'm going to pull some information out of some resources closed to you, but that are open to veterinary medical professionals here...
Quoted from the Veterinary Information Network: (my explanations are in italics)
What is Melamine?
Melamine is a cyclic amino compound which is part of the triazine family of chemicals. It is produced from urea and exists as a monomeric powder.
they are saying it is soluble in water.
What is melamine used for?
Melamine monomers can be polymerized into melamine resins and then crosslinked with formaldehyde to form thermosetting plastic laminates, the most common of which is Formica. It is used in plastic utensils. It is also used as a flame retardant and a non-protein nitrogen source (fertilizer), when combined with appropriate microorganisms bacteria that can metabolize the compound into urea or ammonia.
Is melamine toxic?
As far as we can ascertain, melamine is minimally toxic. In acute toxicity trials in rats and mice, LD50 was >3g/kg. LD50 means "Lethal Dose in 50% of specimens" and it is a way of measuring and comparing toxicity. In this case it takes over 3g/kg to kill a rat. The average rats weigh about 12 grams. That is A LOT of melamine! Intravenous injections (0.3mM/kg) and acute oral administration of melamine (125mg/kg) to cats failed to induce any toxicity (Lipschitz & Stokey, 1944, J Pharm & Exp Ther). In chronic dosing studies, rats developed cystic calculi (bladder stones) and consequent carcinomas of the bladder after 6 months of administration. There is virtually no mention of nephrotoxicity nephrotoxicity means that it damages the cells of the kidney - but it appears that this is NOT a problem or is hardly mentioned in the published literature. It is considered a mild ecological toxin, and generally safe in a work environment (inhalation and dermal or mucosal contact).
Suprisingly, melamine has a diuretic action.
Melamine does not appear to be toxic even at high does to cats and it increases urination, which also increases clearance from kidneys.
Is melamine present in the affected foods?
Yes. Studies have confirmed that melamine is present in the affected foods. It is not present in other foods tested. It is present in the gluten used in the manufacture of the affected foods.
Is it present in high concentrations in the affected foods?
Melamine was present at about a 1-3% concentration in the gluten used in the manufacture of affected foods. Therefore it is present in a 0.01-0.2% (10mg - 200mg/100g food) concentration in affected foods.
This is not a high enough concentration to kill the rats in the above study.
How does this translate into dietary toxicity?
If extrapolated from toxicity studies in rats (and assuming cats have the same acute toxicity doses as rats), cats would need to consume about 4kg of food per day to approach the rat LD50. Thus, we are skeptical of the ability for melamine to produce toxicity that is being reported.
like I said...
I shouldn't have bothered with all that math and just scrolled down. But, now two of us agree.
Can melamine act as a marker for affected individuals?
We believe so. Since it appears to be present only in the contaminated foods, and is relatively easily detected in urine and kidneys of affected animals, melamine may be a reasonable marker of exposure to affected diets. This may help rule out dietary causes of acute renal failure.
[i]In other words, the presence of melamine in your pet's urine can tell you if your pet is affected by the food or is losing kidney function for some other reason.
Melamine is a cyclic amino compound which is part of the triazine family of chemicals. It is produced from urea and exists as a monomeric powder.
they are saying it is soluble in water.
What is melamine used for?
Melamine monomers can be polymerized into melamine resins and then crosslinked with formaldehyde to form thermosetting plastic laminates, the most common of which is Formica. It is used in plastic utensils. It is also used as a flame retardant and a non-protein nitrogen source (fertilizer), when combined with appropriate microorganisms bacteria that can metabolize the compound into urea or ammonia.
Is melamine toxic?
As far as we can ascertain, melamine is minimally toxic. In acute toxicity trials in rats and mice, LD50 was >3g/kg. LD50 means "Lethal Dose in 50% of specimens" and it is a way of measuring and comparing toxicity. In this case it takes over 3g/kg to kill a rat. The average rats weigh about 12 grams. That is A LOT of melamine! Intravenous injections (0.3mM/kg) and acute oral administration of melamine (125mg/kg) to cats failed to induce any toxicity (Lipschitz & Stokey, 1944, J Pharm & Exp Ther). In chronic dosing studies, rats developed cystic calculi (bladder stones) and consequent carcinomas of the bladder after 6 months of administration. There is virtually no mention of nephrotoxicity nephrotoxicity means that it damages the cells of the kidney - but it appears that this is NOT a problem or is hardly mentioned in the published literature. It is considered a mild ecological toxin, and generally safe in a work environment (inhalation and dermal or mucosal contact).
Suprisingly, melamine has a diuretic action.
Melamine does not appear to be toxic even at high does to cats and it increases urination, which also increases clearance from kidneys.
Is melamine present in the affected foods?
Yes. Studies have confirmed that melamine is present in the affected foods. It is not present in other foods tested. It is present in the gluten used in the manufacture of the affected foods.
Is it present in high concentrations in the affected foods?
Melamine was present at about a 1-3% concentration in the gluten used in the manufacture of affected foods. Therefore it is present in a 0.01-0.2% (10mg - 200mg/100g food) concentration in affected foods.
This is not a high enough concentration to kill the rats in the above study.
How does this translate into dietary toxicity?
If extrapolated from toxicity studies in rats (and assuming cats have the same acute toxicity doses as rats), cats would need to consume about 4kg of food per day to approach the rat LD50. Thus, we are skeptical of the ability for melamine to produce toxicity that is being reported.
like I said...
I shouldn't have bothered with all that math and just scrolled down. But, now two of us agree.Can melamine act as a marker for affected individuals?
We believe so. Since it appears to be present only in the contaminated foods, and is relatively easily detected in urine and kidneys of affected animals, melamine may be a reasonable marker of exposure to affected diets. This may help rule out dietary causes of acute renal failure.
[i]In other words, the presence of melamine in your pet's urine can tell you if your pet is affected by the food or is losing kidney function for some other reason.
Now, if you have fed your pet recalled food and you see the following symptoms lethargy, no appetite, vomiting - see a vet immediately. You would see these signs within one to three days of feeding the food. If it's been a week, your animal should be fine. However, if you are still concerned - see your vet anyway, because I'm not a vet.
If your pet is sick, the current stats (on the american veterinary medical association website: http://www.avma.org/) say that it will most likely be a cat. Your vet will take X-Rays and draw blood and urine for testing.
This, however is the bulletin sent to vets by the AVMA about what to look for:
1. Acute vomiting shortly after ingestion of food (approximately 1-12 hours post ingestion)
2. Anorexia and lethargy anorexia here means they don't want to eat
3. May or may not demonstrate excessive salivation, hematuria bloody urine from crystaline deposits, weakness, and oral ulcerations cuts in the mouth
4. Blood values for BUN, Creatinine, and Phosphorus the three main kidney lab chemistry values that your vet looks at on a blood test are greatly elevated. Most are higher than in-clinic reference range.these are the normal values for the clinic they are being tested in. Each clinic has had their own custom values calibrated for their machines.
Treatment: Patients are treated with supportive care for acute renal failure (IV fluids, antacids, etc.) Veterinarians should use a treatment protocol best suited to the individual needs of their patient. Even though renal values are exceptionally high, patients are responding favorably with values slowly progressing toward normal.
In other words - these animals are not requiring serious ICU type care. IV fluids and well... Rolaids is enough to treat these animals and bring their kidney values back to normal.
2. Anorexia and lethargy anorexia here means they don't want to eat
3. May or may not demonstrate excessive salivation, hematuria bloody urine from crystaline deposits, weakness, and oral ulcerations cuts in the mouth
4. Blood values for BUN, Creatinine, and Phosphorus the three main kidney lab chemistry values that your vet looks at on a blood test are greatly elevated. Most are higher than in-clinic reference range.these are the normal values for the clinic they are being tested in. Each clinic has had their own custom values calibrated for their machines.
Treatment: Patients are treated with supportive care for acute renal failure (IV fluids, antacids, etc.) Veterinarians should use a treatment protocol best suited to the individual needs of their patient. Even though renal values are exceptionally high, patients are responding favorably with values slowly progressing toward normal.
In other words - these animals are not requiring serious ICU type care. IV fluids and well... Rolaids is enough to treat these animals and bring their kidney values back to normal.
If you are feeding your pet a non-recalled food and you see these signs (lethargy, no appetite, vomiting) - see your vet. If you don't, don't worry.
Despite what has been said about melamine and kidney function, the ACVIM (american college of veterinary internal medicine) is recommending that all animals who have eaten recalled foods recieve the following lab tests: Blood Chemistry and Urinalysis to establish baseline kidney function. The costs for these tests is minimal and if your vet is cooperative they can be done without an exam fee. (ie. a technician draws the blood and runs the tests in house - cost is approx $40) You can read about the ACVIM here: http://www.acvim.org/.
One more thing - I know home cooking has been mentioned here. I have mixed feelings on this one. I know its benefits and I have seen many problems with it. The ACVIM adds this:
We as veterinary professionals need to reassure our pet owners during this time of ever changing news.We need to discourage the perceived simple solution of home cooking and stress the importance of consulting the family veterinarian regarding diet and pet health. Recommendations for health screens have not changed for pets that may have consumed a recalled diet.
Veterinary diets are not just "another way to gouge the customer" - they have a prescribed need with specific ingredients often designed to treat specific conditions and ailments. You have no idea how much diet enters into every single class I take and they work. There is a common perception that the medical profession exists to rip people off and it is just not the case so please - consider home cooking but absolutely know what you are doing first. I have seen horrible outcomes from this. (Like dead animals.)
And the companies are attempting a pro-active approach to avoid a class-action lawsuit so please consider lodging your complaints here:
• Pet owners who are concerned that their pet has been adversely affected by the consumption of recalled food should contact their state Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Consumer Complaint Coordinator. For
a state-by-state list of Coordinators, go to http://www.fda.gov/opacom backgrounders/complain.html. Please include as much information as possible, including the specific product name, lot numbers, veterinarians' report and diagnosis, etc.
a state-by-state list of Coordinators, go to http://www.fda.gov/opacom backgrounders/complain.html. Please include as much information as possible, including the specific product name, lot numbers, veterinarians' report and diagnosis, etc.
I know this is a lot of information - but it is what the vets are getting (and I've filtered through it). If I've quelled some fears I've done my job.
I hope you and your pets are well.
-e
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
St. Kurt, thanks for that information, it's good to hear from someone who has stayed on top of all this.
Your area of the country may be safer. I live in Ontario and my cat's vet has treated about 25 other cats and 5 dogs that have been affected. When I visited him, I took a pouch of the poisoned IAMS so he could clearly see that this is what my cat had been eating and his symptoms all matched. My cat still isn't totally better but he is significantly improved and I am hoping for a full recovery.
It's just sad.
It is easy to panic when the news gives dire reports and you feel like you don't have all the facts and each day the facts seem to change. However, from our end, we have only seen one animal that has become sick from this food in our teaching hospital.
It's just sad.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
St. Kurt,
I too appreciate your input.
I just want to emphasize that I have worked with my vet with home cooking for my dogs. She is acutally the one that got me looking into not only my pets nuturition, but it led me to question and re-evaluate my own as well.
I have a few questions for you though...I know what my vet's opinions are, but I'd like to hear yours as well. I understand the need for special diets in special cases, i.e. kidney disesase, heart conditions, allergies, etc. and that pet manufacturers attempt to address these serious issues. But what is the opinion out there in the professional world about the quality of ingredients used in pet foods (or lack-there-of)? Perhaps it's the substandard products used that actually promotes ill health? Does your school at all address this?
As far as these products being sold in animal hospitals...my vet told me while she was going to school, many of these pet food companies would subsidize parts of their education, which therefore kind of left 'some' with a feeling of loyalty towards a particular brand. And let's face it, it's a business. They don't provide services for free! So they do make a profit from the sale of these foods amongst all their other services.
I'm sure for every question, there are several debatable answers, LOL! I understand that. Just interested in what you have found the teachings to be where you are.
Thanks again for your input.
I'm not in the best frame of mind tonight, so I hope I don't sound attacking (I don't mean to). I'm just really curious.
I too appreciate your input.
I just want to emphasize that I have worked with my vet with home cooking for my dogs. She is acutally the one that got me looking into not only my pets nuturition, but it led me to question and re-evaluate my own as well.
I have a few questions for you though...I know what my vet's opinions are, but I'd like to hear yours as well. I understand the need for special diets in special cases, i.e. kidney disesase, heart conditions, allergies, etc. and that pet manufacturers attempt to address these serious issues. But what is the opinion out there in the professional world about the quality of ingredients used in pet foods (or lack-there-of)? Perhaps it's the substandard products used that actually promotes ill health? Does your school at all address this?
As far as these products being sold in animal hospitals...my vet told me while she was going to school, many of these pet food companies would subsidize parts of their education, which therefore kind of left 'some' with a feeling of loyalty towards a particular brand. And let's face it, it's a business. They don't provide services for free! So they do make a profit from the sale of these foods amongst all their other services.
I'm sure for every question, there are several debatable answers, LOL! I understand that. Just interested in what you have found the teachings to be where you are.
Thanks again for your input.
I'm not in the best frame of mind tonight, so I hope I don't sound attacking (I don't mean to). I'm just really curious.
Wipe your paws elsewhere!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,672
Just wanted to chime in again and thank everyone who responded to this thread. Obviously, there are many pet lovers on this forum and we take our responsibility as animal caretakers seriously. My dogs mean the world to me so I thought it was important to do my best to educate myself on this issue and sift out the facts from the fiction. And St. Kurt, you have helped me tremendously. This is the first time since news of the recall has broken that I feel that I have a good handle on the situation--good enough to make wise decisions for my four poochies.
Tonight, they are back on their regular diet and I can rest easy knowing that I did my very best for these loyal and trusting creatures. We are truly blessed to have them in our lives.
Tonight, they are back on their regular diet and I can rest easy knowing that I did my very best for these loyal and trusting creatures. We are truly blessed to have them in our lives.
cunning. baffling. powerful.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 183
Originally Posted by ICU 
St. Kurt,
I too appreciate your input.
I just want to emphasize that I have worked with my vet with home cooking for my dogs. She is acutally the one that got me looking into not only my pets nuturition, but it led me to question and re-evaluate my own as well.
I too appreciate your input.
I just want to emphasize that I have worked with my vet with home cooking for my dogs. She is acutally the one that got me looking into not only my pets nuturition, but it led me to question and re-evaluate my own as well.
It is also way more expensive than feeding a commercial diet.
I have a few questions for you though...I know what my vet's opinions are, but I'd like to hear yours as well. I understand the need for special diets in special cases, i.e. kidney disesase, heart conditions, allergies, etc. and that pet manufacturers attempt to address these serious issues. But what is the opinion out there in the professional world about the quality of ingredients used in pet foods (or lack-there-of)? Perhaps it's the substandard products used that actually promotes ill health? Does your school at all address this?
The pet food industry has responded to the consumer interest by increasing the amount of research they do into animal nutritional requirements. The result is foods keep getting better.
And as much as I am in favor of home made diets for animals, the rare cases these deficiencies or toxicities (too little or too much or an ingredient) do show up is mostly in animals who have owners that make their food. Hence the need to really educate yourself to do this right.
As far as these products being sold in animal hospitals...my vet told me while she was going to school, many of these pet food companies would subsidize parts of their education, which therefore kind of left 'some' with a feeling of loyalty towards a particular brand. And let's face it, it's a business. They don't provide services for free! So they do make a profit from the sale of these foods amongst all their other services.
And the pet food companies are a very visible presence in the school, along with the pharmaceutical companies. They do provide funding for us, but not for our tutition. Rather they fund extra-educational activities such as speakers on current topics (such as the pet food recall or how to give proper vet care to handicapped assistance dogs), practical labs, and other opportunities for education outside of our normal vet curriculum.
As there are currently six pet food companies and about five major drug manufacturers involved in these activities, it's hard to have loyalty to any one of them. Generally after the presentation they have leaflets with information about their products available if we want them.
I'm sure for every question, there are several debatable answers, LOL! I understand that. Just interested in what you have found the teachings to be where you are.
Thanks again for your input.
Thanks again for your input.
This opinion could change, I'm not out of school yet, but that's what it is right now.
I'm not in the best frame of mind tonight, so I hope I don't sound attacking (I don't mean to). I'm just really curious.
No worries.
-e
cunning. baffling. powerful.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 183
Originally Posted by Ann
My cat still isn't totally better but he is significantly improved and I am hoping for a full recovery.
How is your cat doing now? What has your vet done to treat him? (I'm just curious because the cat here was treated with fluids, was fine and went home.)
Oh and FormerD, I'm glad I could help.
-e
CindeRella is proof that a new pair of shoes can change your life!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Spreading my wings
Posts: 7,163
Originally Posted by ICU
St. Kurt,
I too appreciate your input.
I just want to emphasize that I have worked with my vet with home cooking for my dogs. She is acutally the one that got me looking into not only my pets nuturition, but it led me to question and re-evaluate my own as well.
I have a few questions for you though...I know what my vet's opinions are, but I'd like to hear yours as well. I understand the need for special diets in special cases, i.e. kidney disesase, heart conditions, allergies, etc. and that pet manufacturers attempt to address these serious issues. But what is the opinion out there in the professional world about the quality of ingredients used in pet foods (or lack-there-of)? Perhaps it's the substandard products used that actually promotes ill health? Does your school at all address this?
As far as these products being sold in animal hospitals...my vet told me while she was going to school, many of these pet food companies would subsidize parts of their education, which therefore kind of left 'some' with a feeling of loyalty towards a particular brand. And let's face it, it's a business. They don't provide services for free! So they do make a profit from the sale of these foods amongst all their other services.
I'm sure for every question, there are several debatable answers, LOL! I understand that. Just interested in what you have found the teachings to be where you are.
Thanks again for your input.
I too appreciate your input.
I just want to emphasize that I have worked with my vet with home cooking for my dogs. She is acutally the one that got me looking into not only my pets nuturition, but it led me to question and re-evaluate my own as well.
I have a few questions for you though...I know what my vet's opinions are, but I'd like to hear yours as well. I understand the need for special diets in special cases, i.e. kidney disesase, heart conditions, allergies, etc. and that pet manufacturers attempt to address these serious issues. But what is the opinion out there in the professional world about the quality of ingredients used in pet foods (or lack-there-of)? Perhaps it's the substandard products used that actually promotes ill health? Does your school at all address this?
As far as these products being sold in animal hospitals...my vet told me while she was going to school, many of these pet food companies would subsidize parts of their education, which therefore kind of left 'some' with a feeling of loyalty towards a particular brand. And let's face it, it's a business. They don't provide services for free! So they do make a profit from the sale of these foods amongst all their other services.
I'm sure for every question, there are several debatable answers, LOL! I understand that. Just interested in what you have found the teachings to be where you are.
Thanks again for your input.
I have to agree with this as I have placed my dogs as I said on home cooked meals i.e with education and guidance from my vet! I have one that is 16 years of age who still actually RUNS AROUND THE YARD and also an 18 year old mother of the other who is diabetic (hence the reason for the start of doing this 4 years ago) she is blind, and now currently no longer walking but they have had a very healthy life and I feel more so the past 4 years with the better diet that they have been on-
I have to agree also with ICU that everyone has input and I would have to actually say there are Vets out there who know alot and believe me some who do not know A THING! I use to work for one that I actually watched him doing surgery on a dog and the dog a lab fell off the table and HE LAUGHED! He was only a VET because he failed out of medical school-as he was going to be a pediatrician! Now that is scary!:smileeek:
So I say to each is own but do not get me wrong everyones input is great-and very well needed at this time with all that is going on with the animals.
Thank you for all the other input and good luck in Vet School! I'm sure you will make an excellent one!
Last edited by DesertEyes; 04-04-2007 at 11:14 PM. Reason: fixed broken quote
cunning. baffling. powerful.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 183
Originally Posted by Rella927
He was only a VET because he failed out of medical school-as he was going to be a pediatrician!
So I can't really see how a guy who couldn't cut it in med school got into vet school and graduated. (Usually this is the other way around. I had a dentist who wanted to be a vet but couldn't get in and I have met several MDs who after applying and applying to vet school finally gave up and became human medical doctors.)
Maybe he was just a bad doctor with poor interpersonal skills? That can happen in any field.
-e
Last edited by St_Kurt; 04-04-2007 at 09:57 PM. Reason: quote weirdness.
Bridge CLOSED
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: No ones business
Posts: 1,497
Hi ST Kurt!
I loved doing vet work when I had my dairy farm. I would have been a good vet (read and still do read every thing I can get my hands on with respect to Veterinary science.. when Barbaro broke his leg I nailed the diagnosis b4 the truck came out to the track.. but some of that was experience).
I agree with you. The difficulty in getting into vet school is legendary. The problem is that there is a lack of vet schools.
Just know that I appreciate the veterinary community. I worked very closely with my vet practice when I had the farm and I learned a lot. When you are a vet you get different problems and different species.. with human medicine at least it is just one species. Also, the animal can't say. "It hurst here.. or I feel like this" so being a good diagnostician is key. Of course, modern medicine and modern technology sure helps. However, as I am sure you know, it will never replace that intuitive ability that really good vets seem to have (as well as animal owners). I could just walk through the barn and tell you on passing if one of my cows was "off" a bit.
Anyway, thank you for sharing what you have here. Keep up the good work and know that if tomorrow I could live life over I would have moved heaven and earth and been a veterinarian. I have the intuition and the compassion and I know that. My vets told me so many times..
Kudos to you!
Let us know when you are going to graduate. You have my support!!
I loved doing vet work when I had my dairy farm. I would have been a good vet (read and still do read every thing I can get my hands on with respect to Veterinary science.. when Barbaro broke his leg I nailed the diagnosis b4 the truck came out to the track.. but some of that was experience).
I agree with you. The difficulty in getting into vet school is legendary. The problem is that there is a lack of vet schools.
Just know that I appreciate the veterinary community. I worked very closely with my vet practice when I had the farm and I learned a lot. When you are a vet you get different problems and different species.. with human medicine at least it is just one species. Also, the animal can't say. "It hurst here.. or I feel like this" so being a good diagnostician is key. Of course, modern medicine and modern technology sure helps. However, as I am sure you know, it will never replace that intuitive ability that really good vets seem to have (as well as animal owners). I could just walk through the barn and tell you on passing if one of my cows was "off" a bit.
Anyway, thank you for sharing what you have here. Keep up the good work and know that if tomorrow I could live life over I would have moved heaven and earth and been a veterinarian. I have the intuition and the compassion and I know that. My vets told me so many times..
Kudos to you!
Let us know when you are going to graduate. You have my support!!
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Originally Posted by St_Kurt
Wow. That is a lot compared to what we've seen here.
How is your cat doing now? What has your vet done to treat him? (I'm just curious because the cat here was treated with fluids, was fine and went home.)
How is your cat doing now? What has your vet done to treat him? (I'm just curious because the cat here was treated with fluids, was fine and went home.)
He didn't have to be treated with fluids, perhaps because we made lots of fresh water available to him and also milk so he would get some nutrition when he wasn't eating. I was glad for that and many of the other cats weren't so lucky. I was at the vets yesterday to pick up more food and he told me that one of the cats wasn't going to make it. That was sad.
I am staying away from all commercial products right now. Wheat Gluton is not bad for animals, just the kind that was exposed to pesticides from China. But I just don't trust anything and maybe never will. The vet food is sold only to vets and is made locally and 100% safe.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: southern indiana
Posts: 2,145
my rudy dog will never eat another commercial pet food again. he is too precious to lose to something so unneccesary.
i always made my childrens baby food and i guess i can learn how to make dog food.
my rudy is 12 years old....a little maltese mix, 15 lbs....all white and silky fur.
i'll try and post a pic of him.
something like this happening, makes us realize how vulnerable we are, even with our own food supply.
we take a lot on faith, don't we?
i think it is scary, very scary.
i always made my childrens baby food and i guess i can learn how to make dog food.
my rudy is 12 years old....a little maltese mix, 15 lbs....all white and silky fur.
i'll try and post a pic of him.
something like this happening, makes us realize how vulnerable we are, even with our own food supply.
we take a lot on faith, don't we?
i think it is scary, very scary.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
Thanks St. Kurt!
When I was speaking of the quality or lack of quality of ingredients put in pet foods, I should have made myself more clear (sorry, it was a very emotional day for me...perhaps I should have waited until I could think/write more clearly, LOL). My fault!!
Anyway hopefully this will better describe my concerns....aren't the doctors appalled at the type protein sources that are used in numerous pet food companies? i.e. roadkill, euthanized 'companion' animals with flea and tick collars still attached...amongst other horrific 'nutrition based ingredients', if one could call it that (which I certainly don't)? (I provided a link which describes this in greater detail in one of my earlier posts on this thread).
That's the real reason I'm miffed at many of the vets promoting AND selling these foods. The fact that they are in business and have to make a profit is totally irrelevant to me. What is relevant is the horrible foods that many are promoting, and, claiming it is 'good for animals! This makes me ill, to put it mildly!
When I was speaking of the quality or lack of quality of ingredients put in pet foods, I should have made myself more clear (sorry, it was a very emotional day for me...perhaps I should have waited until I could think/write more clearly, LOL). My fault!!
Anyway hopefully this will better describe my concerns....aren't the doctors appalled at the type protein sources that are used in numerous pet food companies? i.e. roadkill, euthanized 'companion' animals with flea and tick collars still attached...amongst other horrific 'nutrition based ingredients', if one could call it that (which I certainly don't)? (I provided a link which describes this in greater detail in one of my earlier posts on this thread).
That's the real reason I'm miffed at many of the vets promoting AND selling these foods. The fact that they are in business and have to make a profit is totally irrelevant to me. What is relevant is the horrible foods that many are promoting, and, claiming it is 'good for animals! This makes me ill, to put it mildly!
cunning. baffling. powerful.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 183
Originally Posted by ICU
aren't the doctors appalled at the type protein sources that are used in numerous pet food companies? i.e. roadkill, euthanized 'companion' animals with flea and tick collars still attached...amongst other horrific 'nutrition based ingredients', if one could call it that
If you've ever been in a production facility that processes poultry or beef for human consumption (and I mean a real one, not watched a PeTA video or something) they are much the same in effeciency and sanitation.
Veterinary medicine isn't just taking care of people's dogs and cats. DVMs inspect your meat in slaughterhouses and your milk large scale dairy productions. They work for the Center for Disease Control and in medical research labs. The work for the FDA and the USDA as well as every other major government branch that controls what we eat or put into our bodies (and there are 13 of them).
Given that vets are uniquely trained, suited, and placed to make positive changes to the food supply for both people and animals, I ask any and all of you, why would they be appalled when they can take action?
Just a simple question. I don't really expect anyone to try and answer it here as it's seriously off topic and it's something that I see being addressed by the industry right now.
-e
CindeRella is proof that a new pair of shoes can change your life!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Spreading my wings
Posts: 7,163
St. Kirk
ya know sorry that you do not believe me but it is the TRUTH! I may have stated it wrong in my other post- He only was able to become a pediatrician so he decided to be a vet instead! The more extensive medical degree was not probable for him!
My father was a surgeon and mom a nurse and both went through extensive training! And this guy is almost 60 years old so I'm sure that times have changed and being able to do and be what you want has changed as far as training and the know how and what you need to know to become what you are!
Sorry you do not believe me-but I wish you the best in your career and thank you again for your input! Sorry you took it so defensively-
Happy Bunny Day to everyone!!
My father was a surgeon and mom a nurse and both went through extensive training! And this guy is almost 60 years old so I'm sure that times have changed and being able to do and be what you want has changed as far as training and the know how and what you need to know to become what you are!
Sorry you do not believe me-but I wish you the best in your career and thank you again for your input! Sorry you took it so defensively-
Happy Bunny Day to everyone!!
Last edited by Rella927; 04-06-2007 at 09:23 AM. Reason: name is wrong on top ST KURT
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
LOL, I'm sorry, but I wouldn't trust what Iams/Eukanuba owned by P&G 'allowed for you to see' on your planned tour as the final word on the subject.
Although I do appreciate your input St. Kurt, I am more convinced than ever that I am on the right track with what I have been doing for my pets.
I think it's time for me to end my participation in this thread, as I'm sure it could go on forever. No hard feelings on my end!
Although I do appreciate your input St. Kurt, I am more convinced than ever that I am on the right track with what I have been doing for my pets.
I think it's time for me to end my participation in this thread, as I'm sure it could go on forever. No hard feelings on my end!
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