FormerDoormat

We never have to guess what they're really thinking or feeling because they're honest about their thoughts and openly express their feelings. We never have to wonder if they're with us because they want to be, or if they're there out of guilt and obligation.

When they do something for us, we don't have to worry whether they'll end up resenting us because direct people generally do things that please themselves. We don't have to fuss about the status of our relationship because if we ask, they'll tell us. We don't have to worry if they're angry because they deal openly with their anger and resolve it quickly.

We don't have to ponder whether they are talking about us behind our backs because if they have something to say, it will be said to us directly. We don't have to wonder if we can rely on them because direct people are trustworthy.

Wouldn't it be nice if we were all more direct?

Wouldn't it be nice if every time you asked someone for their opinion, you received honest feedback?

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone had the courage to be themselves and not what others want them to be?

Wouldn't it be nice if we could share our opinions freely without having to pad them because of fear we may hurt others' feelings?

Wouldn't it be nice if we could let go of our notions that it's somehow good or desirable or more polite to be indirect?

And wouldn't it be a great loss to lose a member of this forum whom we've come to know and love dearly and whom we can always rely on to respond in utter honesty?

Yes, it would be a great loss indeed.

equus

I get up early - I like to peek at SR while the kettle boils! This morning reading this made me very thoughtful, I knew I wanted to reply but was less sure how to say what I felt.

First of all I want to seperate the person from behaviour - and I MEAN that. I have made some of the most stupid mistakes I've encountered in my life - I'd like to say the most wrong 'uns were what I saw in others but that isn't true, they are my own! ONE of the ones which I feel most regret for is how I reacted in my late teens/early twenties when my best friend told me she was gay. I could say hand on heart that I was direct, I could say without worry that I said plainly what I felt, I could say at the time I was convinced I was right, I could say alot of things - all of which are true but the one I know now and didn't know then was how much harm I caused. We can't turn back time, I can forgive myself and the reson I seperate behaviour from a person is that my bad behaviour then DOES NOT define me, my mistakes then DO NOT define who I am.

The harm I did was cuased by a whole load of things. First of all I was UTTERLY convinced I was right, something which I hope I've never repeated in my thoughts about someone ELSE'S life. This gave me courage, courage to hurt and still feel justified, courage to not look at the consequences because I could be so SURE I was right - I was wrong. My arrogance helped me not to listen, helped me not to hear what was said back, because whatever was said back first got filtered through my own beliefs - it never occured to me I was just plain wrong.

Secondly, I forgot to remember I was human, somehow I gave myself these special powers to speak the truth without my concept of truth being tainted by my own feelings, my own situation, after all wasn't I such a good friend? How could I allow anything other than THE TRUTH to matter? Doesn't being a good friend and knowing THE TRUTH make me immune to our universal human tendencies to view the world only from our perspective? As it turns out the special powers were faulty and I've since returned them to the shop! This was MY best friend, MY pulling partner, MY girly mate, MY NORMAL friend who unlike my ABNORMAL family, I chose, MINE. Those feelings DID effect what I saw as truth - after all she was just confused, I knew she was straight didn't I? Wasn't it my duty to share honestly all my evidence? Had my special powers been working, rather than imagined perhaps it would have been the right thing to do - I just forgot I was human. I never looked to see how it effected me and my thinking, and me and my thinking are not reliabley seperate (chuckle).

Thirdly - as we predictabley started to fall out, as distance grew I could see all the things SHE had done wrong, mine of course were justified (see above). It wasn't fair, it was so unfair - she said I didn't listen but I did, I could hear all the wrong things she said and told her so - how could I do that if I didn't listen? She said I was hurting her but that's what you get for honest friends and I wasn't going to be one of the groupies just encouraged her (of course my special powers meant I KNEW they didn't really care). Her mistakes, her denial of the truth I saw were so plain to me. Through all this of course she really did do some things wrong - she was human too, and of course that was proof I was right. I just DID NOT see my own behaviour - I have no idea whether it was could not or would not, but I DID NOT see it. Blinded by TRUTH, a truly insane belief I could be more than human (my special powers), justification (tons of it!!) and my own sacred courage to abandon my closest friend in the name of all of those. WHY? I think because I had a lesson to learn and I'm grateful to have a long memory!

What I did then was far WORSE than anything I've seen done on this or any other forum, not because of mal intent but because I did it to my closest friend, because I couldn't plead the reprieve of not being face to face, or not knowing her. I did all that in the name of being direct and it wasn't worth it - it was wrong! I was wrong.

NONE of that defined me. I am not a homophobic, arrogant, self centred, pig headed friend. Although the above meant I lost my best mate for two years eventually she forgave me and somehow regardless of stuff she might have done wrong I didn't think there was anything for me to forgive her for! She'll be the first to say that behaviour did NOT define me. I believe she'd say it was worth her being friends again - our friendship's now old and strong - we've both learned to be friends with imperfect people. We still make mistakes in the name of honesty - thankfully English contains the word sorry!

So if I look at myself I know that my being direct has often meant I'm anything but a joy to be around. However I'm blessed with having been the biggest idiot for miles around so now I try to go through my little checklist BEFORE waging war with truth on my side.

My checklist (hopefully performed with gob tightly shut):
Is everything I'm saying based on it being impossible that I'm wrong?
Am I accounting for being human - acknowledging hoe my own feelings will effect what I believe?
Am I listening, carefully and to more than just the bits which prove my point?
Am I seeing my part in this - I know I can't behave perfectly so can I see my own mistakes or only theirs?

Hey - this is not perfect, on here and in real life I'd be stuck without the word sorry! Sometimes I know I'll still miss the whole lot and never know I've stuffed up so I'm grateful when I do spot it.

I'll be your straight up and direct friend but hopefully NEVER like I was then. There's nothing dishonest in thinking first or checking my own behaviour and I've learned that being direct is a p!ss poor excuse to do whatever I like (ehem or passionately believe in on the basis I know better!).

FOB - you have a lot to offer and less to correct than I have but it's you I want to stay not directness at the expense of everything else. Sometimes it (not you) is anything but a pleasure to be around.

Jazzman

well that was direct....

ASpouse

Directness out of "emotions" is hurtful, being direct because one knows and has experience in a certain area or areas is not.

You, equus acted like a kid with your friend. I would have expected that from someone around that age. It is an emotionally charged time in any persons life.

I've never read where Christina spoke out of emotions, but rather from experience and knowledge.

Emotionally charged directness and experience charged directness are two different animals.

You cannot or perhaps I should say, should not, compare your directness with your friend to Christina's directness on this board. She is an invaluable member and has helped many people, myself included.

Anyone can be direct with me if they can prove and validate that I am wrong and they are right and give me reasons and examples why. I try to do the same, not always successfully and many times using too many words, but being direct when dealing with a disease that is manipulative, destroying and dangerous is the only way to be, IMVHO!

minnie

Being direct and tactful is my goal.

Being thoughtless and judgemental in the name of being direct is where I am moving away from.

Dan

There is directness, and then there is saying something inappropriate.
I've done it, and no doubt will do it again.
Who among us possesses the gift of perfect thought at all times?
I'm still learning to temper my remarks with compassion even in cases where I feel none is deserved. That's a skill that's acquired only when we face the concept the big picture, and our true place within it, I think.

Equus brings up something big:
First of all I want to seperate the person from behaviour .
Essential, if we're to make sense of eachother, and avoid resentments as best we can.
Not an easy thing to do, most days.

When I put my foot in my mouth, there's only one thing to do.
I say I'm sorry.

Now, the distinction between having an opinion and saying something inappropriate is the dark zone where most of these situations arise, I believe.

A fine line, where we better make sure our pencil ends are sharp enough to trace along it. Ever mindful of the collective.
A noble aspiration, one to which I fall short more often than I like to admit.

The tenth step offers me hope.

equus

What I wrote were my thoughts on directness - I did not, am not and would not say anyone here is guilty of the same - in fact I stated pretty clearly that I had done worse than I have seen others do. My reply to this comment is because I WILL NOT just let this be about comparing people - or my judgement on someone else's behaviour, thankfully I'm not a mod and that is not my responsibility.

My post was about how much I value FOB but my reasons why I value far less directness at the expense of other things. The OP ties the two together - I don't view them as one.

historyteach

There's a fine line between direct and blunt. Or is there? I really don't know.
But, the choice of words here can change our perspective on what's being said.

Shalom!

minnie

For me, it's all about the true motive behind the words I use.

And finding ways in the written word to achieve the balance between harsh and honest, just like I might put my hand on someone's arm in person, for example. Those non-verbals work wonders IRL, but I have to find other ways to do it on here. Still searching.....

JT

We should all be so lucky as to have a funeral procession before we are dead. Then we will at least be able to hear what people are willing to say in front of us.

I am a direct person...the thing about that is I can not tolerate people who say what they think I want to here. It rings false, it is not useful, it wastes my time and offends me. If I walked into work with green spiked hair (I am over 50 and work in a midwestern suburban medical office) I could tell you #1-who would say nothing #2- who would say "That's so cute!" and #3-who would ask me who stole my mirrors!

It would be the last opinion that I would value because that is the person who cares enough about me to try to prevent this grandmother from making an a** of herself.

Not everyone feels that way. They would rather think that their choice of green hair was kinda stylish and if you don't like it keep your opinion to yourself. That would be the person I would offend if I was falling off my chair from laughing so hard. So I would fall in the "say nothing" crowd...not because I am not direct, but because that person is clearly not open to receiving it. I would never say "That's so cute"...so I am quiet a lot.

So I suppose it follows that it makes sense to try and be sensitive enough to be able to determine who is who. Sometimes that is hit or miss. I can physically feel it sometimes...a change in my style depending on who I am talking to. That's not being false...that is my choosing words. And a lot of the time I simply have to shut up.

ASpouse

My mother always told me to never ask my girlfriends how I looked, she said always ask your mother, she'll always tell you the truth! I find now that I am nearing 50, what she said was so very true!

Five

I personally think all people are a joy to be around - sick,diseased, dishonest, etc. You just have to know where were to look.

Man, you should MEET some of my dishonest and twisted friends. If your not soiling yourself laughing in five minutes, then your the dishonest one.

Five

Human nature is fascinating, complex, mysterious, constanly unfolding.

If you simplify human nature, you end up with a simple soul. One bound by cliches and tacky opinoins of how others "behave". If you want to really understand human then just look at it without judgement - go along with it, FEEL IT.

equus

My problem is I've stuffed up even with the best motives at heart! I see listening and being aware of my own fallibilty the best protection I have - I've never found that either of those prevent me from being honest, they just help me avoid jumping the gun and give me chance to learn from my own blunders.

I was a kid in the example I gave - but not THAT young and I wish I could say I'd never make any of the same mistakes, but there's only one of them that I even HOPE to ever completely avoid! Hopefully a bit of maturity stops me from doing them all at once, but I'm capable of any even with 'good' intention.

I try to live towards strong words - as a good friend defined them 'when the heart and mouth speak the same language, not two different languages' but that is a far cry from my bullish attitude when I thought all that mattered was to speak my mind. I giggled when I read the Dalai Lama say an undisciplined mind is like an elephant out of control - mine has been far too often.

If I want strong words without the blundering elephant I have to look inside and value more than just being direct - directness without that I do find unpleasant.

Dan

I think there is.
It's called context.
And just when I think I've got the jist of a thread... BANG.
Out the window it goes, if I'm not careful.

Five

I speak my mind sometimes, and sometimes I dont.

sometimes..........gasp....i lie through my teeth.

Something to do wiht "self preservation" - which is kinda like a biological fact.

If the elephant man said to me "do I look sexy in this suit..."

I would say: yeah, for sure - go get them.

now, if i spoke my mind, he is going to get hurt, and he could kill me.

self.
preservation.
biological.

Five

i think i have got the wrong end of the stick on this thread.

my code is: be honest as often as i possibly, humanly, can.

equus

I think you have more compassion than you credit yourself with - if the same man was unable to stand or fight my money is that you would still show compassion and want to avoid how much it would hurt you to see him hurt. But then I think that is also part of our basic nature and we hurt ourselves if we ignore it - I know I do.

Perhaps saying the suit is very smart allows both honesty and good sense?

minnie

There is only our own perception about most things, isn't there? I guess keeping to "I" statements avoids a lot of bother.

Five

I agree.

I dont like seeing anyone hurt. I identify with hurt feelings because I have felt hurt too. That is not to say I hunt around "hurt friends" or lovers, more that I seem to see closer when someone is hurting.

That to me is a virtue - and I think the "absoloute honesty" thing has nothing to do with human nature.