jarp

This is long long long long sorry - I'm sort of just putting my thoughts out there - but there is a quesiton at the end of all of this

So RAH has been doing really well. No drinking, committing to his plan, following through, showing real progress, has dealt with major things in the last few weeks (Dad's death, family stuff, lost job) and his behaviour really has been beyond reproach. Engaged in family life, engaged and open with me, remorceful but not in a 'poor me' way'....he seems calmer and more content and stable than he's been in...forever.

I've been quietly hopeful for us, working on myself (yes al-anon, individual therapy, marriage counselling with the psych from his rehab - who specialises in addiction and personality disorders).

But....there's been a pit of anxiety in my gut that has been growing and growing. I just 'knew' something...I just didn't 'know' what it was.

I was talking about this in our MC on Monday...and it suddently came to me. He cheated on me. So I asked. And he told me. Two years ago he has a one night stand with an old friend of his. It was whilst he was travelling for work, and he caught up with her (I knew he was doing that), they got drunk, one thing led to another, blah, blah blah...and he slept with her.

Ive always said cheating is my 'deal breaker' (pretty funny given everything else wasn't).

I was devastated, felt betrayed, felt shattered. With all the other crap he's put me through - for some reason I thought this was the one line he wouldnt cross...that he'd at least keep me safe from that. I ranted, I cried, I shook, I threw up. After 1.5 hours he left to pick the kids up from school and the psych stayed with me for another hour (she is amazing). I then walked around for an hour until I knew the kids would be in bed, went home and yelled, screamed, hurled abuse and accusation after accusation at him. He took it all, answered my questions, stayed calm, stated his remorse over and over, explained how and why it happened with no excuses ( he was a selfish drunk that had no regard for anything except the moment), told me he had no expectations of forgiveness. Said this has been eating him alive for two years, he tried to drown it out by drinking, it didnt work. The shame and guilt have been overwhelming.

Went to bed, woke up, and I started in on him again. By now he was still saying all the right things but he was sweating, shaking, couldnt sit still, crying. Excused himself and called his sponsor. I could hear him telling him what happened and that he was desperate for a drink. He didnt drink.

We went for a 3 hour walk, and talked and talked, and cried and cried. I then went back to the psych last night and talked it through. I came home (he had kids all organised and dinner done), and I felt ok. We had a nice night. We talked more last night about what to do going forward, my expectations, his expectations, how to build trust..what we both want. We see the psych again Monday.

The thing is....I feel better than I have felt for a long time. My anxiety is gone. I believe I can get better. I'm going to be OK either way. I have hope for our relationship. I believe he can get better. I know we have a long road and a lot of work to do. I think I can forgive him. I think I might have already. I dont think he'd do this again (unloess he picks up drinking again in which case I am DONE anyway).

Am I giving this to easily? I feel OK. I am strangely OK about the cheating (I am NOT 'OK" with it...but its not eating me alive). I understand how it can happen. But as long as he keeps doing the things that he needs to do and I keep doing the things I need to do...then I am OK.

I'm also second guessing - is this some codie thing? Shouldnt this be harder? Shouldn't there be months of agonising heart break, recriminations, remorse, guilt, shame, mistrust? Because I saw him in so much pain, and struggling, did this make me shove my own pain away to look after his? I don't feel in my gut this is true - my gut feels clearer and freer than it has in a long time. I feel peaceful. But do I feel peaceful because chaos has been restored? And that is 'home' to me?

Or do I feel peaceful because I 'knew', and now I actually do know, and we dealt with it in a healthy way?

I realise I have a big ways to go because I am questioning my own reactions....

What do you think (my old therapist called this my classic codieism)...are there red flags in my reactions?

Thanks if you've gotten this far!!!!!

Bullfrog

I don't know, Jarp... It's your journey and your decisions. But if I was me, I would be done.

lillamy

Good questions. But it can also be that you -- as you say -- have "known" something hasn't been above board and spoken about before, and now that you've identified what it was, the "other shoe" has finally dropped and you're relieved because of that?

I've seen people put marriages together after infidelity. It can be done if both parties are committed to doing the work.

desypete

i have had to be hard on me over this type of issue as my ex wife used to cheat on me and not just once either, but i was so weak inside of me

today for me i can not see i could ever live with anyone who cheated on me as there is no excuse, when i look at the act itself, one thing led to another ? yeah right but if your with someone one thing can not lead to another as we have such a thing as a brain that should tell us right from wrong
now it wouldnt be so bad maybe if i could put it down to drinking and she would of got drunk and ended up in bed etc but then she would carry on seeing them when sober so it doesnt wash

so for me if someone cheated on me, it would be over as that trust would be gone and i could never again look them in there eye and believe i am anything special to them

i spent a lot of wasted years and there was a lot of pain for my kids because i stuck with my ex hoping that she would never do it again

so like i said for me i have to be hard on me if there going to cheat they will cheat its part of there nature

Fandy

IDK, all I would feel is disgust, not better. You do deserve better than this. He cheated once, he will cheat again.
personally, I could never stand to be in the same bed with someone who betrayed me.

(but that is me, you havemany other things to consider , I'm sure).

Figure out just what your boundaries are, because he is skipping over them and back peddling....OoOOh he "called his sponsor", so what? He still slept with another woman and kept the secret for 2 years.

MissFixit

I am sorry this happened. I have experienced it too.

Having dealt with an alcoholic cheater, I can tell you one thing for sure...do not believe everything he is telling you. He cheated ONCE, two YEARS ago and it was with a FRIEND. This is a cheaters version of "Officer, I only had two drinks."

Once during a one night stand = Minimize. It is not a big deal as it was ONLY once.
Two years ago = It is in the past. It has nothing to do with me today.
With a friend = It wasn't a ***** or a bar skank. There was decency to it. I am not like those other cheaters out there.

This whole thing sounds like a rouse to get you to forgive him to a lesser charge. Including the "phone call with his sponsor."

If he got away with it once, I bet you he got away with it more than once. I would not believe him.

Nuudawn

He cheated whilst an active alcoholic. I do think that has "some" bearing on the situation. I'm not excusing it. And I don't know what else other behaviours you have "excused" because he was drinking.

This is entirely a "you" decision. But if he did any other things he would NEVER do sober..why would this be the line in the sand?

People do things in their addiction they would never do sober.

If you are giving him a second sober chance...a fresh start..well..
I think that bears consideration

Fandy

Being an "active alcoholic" does NOT excuse screwing other women, it is not a *pass*.
it's another form of abuse against their spouse.
for me it CERTAINLY IS a "line in the sand".

jarp

I get what you are all saying. I do truly believe that this is never something he would do when he was sober. Our MC was in his rehab program...she also feels that he is being genuine, in his remorce guilt and shame. And after 25 years experience of treating addicitons - she said she sees this time, and time and time again....and that she firmly believes that when an active addict - people DO do things they would never do sober. She also said time and time again addicts will sit in MC and she will KNOW they've cheated and they don't come clean.

Before this happened I did think 'once a cheater always a cheater'...which is why I am SO shocked that he did this - as I never thought he would. Even his friends have said to me in the past - that's one thing you dont need to worry about with him...he is not a cheater.

He also let me look at his phone - I saw a text to this woman, that he sent two years ago telling her that the night was the biggest mistake of his life, that he'll never forgive himself, that he loves 'Jarp' and his family and he's put all that in jepordy. That he can never speak to her again and he doesnt ever want contact with her again. He swears he hasnt had contact again. I'm not blindly believing that - just sitting on it at the moment.

I do think some of you are being a bit harsh on the sponsor bit....he excused himself. I then over heard him on the phone to his sponsor. He didnt make a song and dance about it. He then came out of the room and asked me to go for a walk. Which is what I assume his sponsor suggested.

Truly - what in that moment should he have done that would have been acceptable? I am sure he wasn't putting on an act about wanting to drink.

Rosiepetal

I guess people handle this in different ways.
The fact that you asked & he told you the truth, that you have both discussed in length how you feel about it and that you are feeling almost relieved, to me is a sign that you may be able to put it behind you & move on with a future together.
He was drinking when this happened & now he is sober. He is remorseful.
Only you will know if you can forgive him & move forward to build a relationship together.

jarp

I'm not giving him a pass at all.

It IS another form of abuse.

Following that line of thinking though - if none of us would ever forgive things that happened during active addiction then the minute we realised there was an addiciton - we should all be 'gone' and this board would not exist.

jarp

I get what you are saying here - but truly - what if that was the case?

What is it was once? He didnt say it was 'ONLY' once I asked - how many times, he responded it was one night. I asked when. He told me when. What if it WAS two years ago? And I asked 'with who'? He told me who it was. It was someone he knew. He didnt say "it was someone I knew...at least it wasnt some woman I met in a bar". In answering my questions he never followed it up with a 'yeah but at least it was/ wasn't'.

This is where I think we sometimes put people in a position where there is no right answer. He not once excused his behaviour.

In talking about this in abstract in the past - he also knows that I have always said that in a way I would understand infidelity more if there was love involved....I sort of understand throwing your family away if there was some emotional struggle, when the cheater at least threw away his family for LOVE. But to throw your family away for sex....? So if he wanted to use my thoughts and feelings to his advantage he would have told me that there was some sort of 'affair' involved.

FireSprite

IDK jarp, I don't envy you in all of this. Infidelity is tough.

My question is why keep a text like that for TWO years? That seems red-flaggy to me on it's own.

I do believe alcohol lowers inhibitions enough to cause people to do cross lines they normally adhere to, but I don't think that it changes people's morals in this regard. I mean, the desire & propensity to cheat existed on it's own without the alcohol - that was just the trigger.

I don't doubt he is sincere in his apology but I also don't think "the drink made me do it" is reasonable either. JMHO - take what you want.

happybeingme

I think that as long as you two continue to work together and make sure there are no other surprises you can both recover and stay married.

If you are commited to continue working on this marriage, you have the love for him, and you really believe you two can have a happy and fulfilling marriage, then keep working on things.

Your meltdown sounds like something you really needed to do. I am glad you freaked and got it all out

Seren

jarp, I'm so sorry that you are going through this right now. My ex-husband cheated...it is the most painful, intimate form of betrayal imagineable. I am sending you many cyber hugs and prayers for healing.

Your pain and anger are completely understandable, and I will never tell you to stay...or go. Here is what I can share about when it happened to me.

My husband did not have a one-night stand but an on-going relationship with another woman. When I found out, I was completely devastated as you are now. The betrayal and anger I felt were beyond anything I had ever experienced in my life.

We did try marriage counseling, but he was not committed to going. He would cancel appointments without telling me or he would just never show up. He showed by his actions what he wanted.

The one session during which he actually showed, the counselor shared the following things with us that would be necessary for our marriage to heal from the affair:

• He would have to completely and totally accept responsibility for what happened without reservation, without defending himself.
• He would have to acknowledge the pain he caused without minimizing my feelings or making excuses (no "yeah, but").
• He would have to be completely transparent about where he was, what he was doing, and be available for me to contact him when I felt the need.

Once my emotions were more calm (compared to the swirling maelstrom I was experiencing):

• I would have to decide whether or not I would ever be able to forgive him and trust him again at some point in the future. You see, it would not be fair to him to have to be on the receiving end of my rage for the rest of his life.
• I would have to be willing to understand and accept any part I may have played in the unhappiness in the marriage that may have been an extenuating factor in what happened.

All of this is a lot of work, and may not be possible for everyone. It was not for my ex, and frankly, I don't know if it would have been possible for me.

I'm just so sorry for the pain you are feeling....I know it well. Please know you are in my thoughts and prayers for peace and rest.

lillamy

I think questioning your own reactions is sane and smart. I think questioning an A's veracity is smart. But I think at the end of the day, whether to trust or not is a decision. One that you make. And remake. Today, you might feel like saying "I will trust that he's been honest about this and work from that." A year from now, you might say "you know, that infidelity is still nagging at me." And then you might need to make another decision -- more counseling, what have you.

I also think -- and I'm basing this on experiences of friends who have experienced infidelity in their marriages -- that your initial reaction might not be your entire reaction. Your initial reaction was very strong, emotional, physical. Your peace now might be what you said "wow, I knew something was wrong, now I know what it was."

You might have a more emotional reaction tomorrow, next week, when you see him look at another woman, when he gets a text and turns the phone away from you -- I'm just saying, if you want to trust him and rebuild your marriage, there might be more hurdles ahead. So don't wrap yourself into too much of a pretzel right now trying to figure out how "appropriate" or "right" your initial reaction is. (((hugs)))

amy55

jarp,

I have no opinion on this.

I want to offer you support. I know you went through several really tough months, especially finding out about the BPD.

I'm glad that you were able to discuss this and end this without WWIII. Sometimes even trying to have a discussion with someone who has BPD will set off a war. It didn't. Perhaps you are feeling a calmness because you were finally able to communicate. I'm sure you didn't have plenty of those where things were talked out rationally.

I'm just going to say to feel the calmness. You have time to think about it later on as to how you really feel about this. You may have forgiveness for him, you may not. That is up to you. I'm only saying that after being able to deal with this with a peaceful ending might be something new and it may be clouding your own feelings about this.

You have time to make a decision. If no one else has said this yet, I would still get checked out though for STD.

((((((((((hugs))))))))
amy

F50Lurker

Jarp, it is never going to end with this guy. You have let him destroy all your barriers, boundaries, self respect, everything. I really hope you will someday walk away from him and his neverending drama.

LexieCat

jarp,

If it were me, and I felt he was really sincere (and the fact that he went and called his sponsor in the middle of this mess when he was falling apart bodes VERY well for his recovery), I would sure as heck be inclined to chalk this up to an instance of alcoholic insanity.

I know some here who VIGOROUSLY disagree, and that's their privilege. I'm just saying how I personally would feel about it. I don't think it's "codie" to do that. There ARE some things that I know I wouldn't be able to get past. Deliberate cruelty to me or my child, for example. And I mean cruelty, not just angry or insulting comments while drunk.

The bottom line is, it isn't up to us whether that's something you can move past in your relationship, it's you. I don't think an act like that necessarily defines a person's character. I worked in many years in criminal justice. I put a lot of people in jail. Some of them actually DID clean up their act and became model citizens. Not a whole lot, but some. There are some people I know in AA who have stolen in the past--one of them has had a key to my house for the past year and a half because he is doing work on my house. I trust him. He stole things in the past, but I have known him for years now and I know what kind of person he is now. If he started drinking again, the key would be back in my possession. Drunk, all bets are off. But someone with good recovery, who made a mistake--even a SERIOUS mistake--in the past is a better bet, to me, than some unknown quantity who might just be sneaky enough to hide the harm that they do.

My opinion, and as I said, I know I am in the minority here.

F50Lurker

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound judgmental. It just breaks my heart every time I see another sad post from you. I really do wish you the very best.