Why a spiritual cure for physical disease?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: California
Posts: 228
Why a spiritual cure for physical disease?
Hi. I'm giving AA a real shot. I've been going to meetings diligently for a few months now and I'm sincerely wondering...
If alcoholism is a physical disease-- an allergy, like Dr. Silkworth puts it in the BB-- then why do we need the moral inventory, the making of amends, etc. that results in the spiritual treatment of the disease?
If alcoholism is an "allergy" that you are born with, something like-- I want to say, celiac disease (you eat one piece of gluten and then you get sick)-- what does confessing my wrongs to someone else do? How do working the steps prevent me from picking up the first drink?
This is an inconsistency that is really creating a lot of cognitive dissonance for me and I would really love some input from people who have experience with the 12 steps.
If alcoholism is a physical disease-- an allergy, like Dr. Silkworth puts it in the BB-- then why do we need the moral inventory, the making of amends, etc. that results in the spiritual treatment of the disease?
If alcoholism is an "allergy" that you are born with, something like-- I want to say, celiac disease (you eat one piece of gluten and then you get sick)-- what does confessing my wrongs to someone else do? How do working the steps prevent me from picking up the first drink?
This is an inconsistency that is really creating a lot of cognitive dissonance for me and I would really love some input from people who have experience with the 12 steps.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by WhiteFeathers 
If alcoholism is an "allergy" that you are born with, something like-- I want to say, celiac disease (you eat one piece of gluten and then you get sick)-- what does confessing my wrongs to someone else do? How do working the steps prevent me from picking up the first drink?
This is an inconsistency that is really creating a lot of cognitive dissonance for me and I would really love some input from people who have experience with the 12 steps.
This is an inconsistency that is really creating a lot of cognitive dissonance for me and I would really love some input from people who have experience with the 12 steps.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,972
I don't believe alcoholism is just a physical disease. Otherwise, once one went through detox, one would be cured. After the physical addiction is treated, the rest is mental/emotional/spiritual.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: California
Posts: 228
Originally Posted by Boleo
"...for we have been not only mentally and physically ill, we have been spiritually sick. When the spiritual malady is overcome, we straighten out mentally and physically."
(page 64)
(page 64)
Why are people born with a spiritual sickness?
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
WhiteFeathers
OK. But you are never "cured" from alcoholism. You are never straightened out physically. I can see how working the steps has potential to treat the "mental obsession" with drinking. But the physical allergy never goes away.
OK. But you are never "cured" from alcoholism. You are never straightened out physically. I can see how working the steps has potential to treat the "mental obsession" with drinking. But the physical allergy never goes away.
However, it does say "we have recovered from a hopeless condition of mind and body." Plus there is a chapter devoted to "There is a solution".
As far as the "allergy" goes, I will always have the organs of an alcoholic. But who cares:
" We have recovered, and have been given the power to help others."
(page 132)
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,572
Clearly it's not an either or situation.
As a young person, I did not have good coping skills, and PTSD, and some abuse, so when I started drinking, I used it to cope with my life.
Unfortunately, I believe that genetics also worked against me, so that not only was I drinking and using drugs INSTEAD of learning how to deal with life on life's terms, I was also concurrently developing a predisposition to becoming physically addicted to alcohol.
I quit all on my own, with some medical intervention. My body needed physical healing to get over my actual addiction.
But what medical science could not help with was the reasons that I began drinking and continued drinking. Doctors could not help me start back at square one and help me learn to deal with people, emotions, and everything that I just never coped with. Every problem or obstacle and every celebration and emotion was treated with liberal amounts of alcohol. Learning to live like a healthy person mentally was what AA helped me sort out.
I also went to therapy as well, and while I don't think they are mutually exclusive, in my case, AA helped me by putting me in the same room with lots of other alcoholics who had also buried feelings and had the same twisted drunken logic for years. I could learn how they got better, and they could speak to where I was at in my life.
As a young person, I did not have good coping skills, and PTSD, and some abuse, so when I started drinking, I used it to cope with my life.
Unfortunately, I believe that genetics also worked against me, so that not only was I drinking and using drugs INSTEAD of learning how to deal with life on life's terms, I was also concurrently developing a predisposition to becoming physically addicted to alcohol.
I quit all on my own, with some medical intervention. My body needed physical healing to get over my actual addiction.
But what medical science could not help with was the reasons that I began drinking and continued drinking. Doctors could not help me start back at square one and help me learn to deal with people, emotions, and everything that I just never coped with. Every problem or obstacle and every celebration and emotion was treated with liberal amounts of alcohol. Learning to live like a healthy person mentally was what AA helped me sort out.
I also went to therapy as well, and while I don't think they are mutually exclusive, in my case, AA helped me by putting me in the same room with lots of other alcoholics who had also buried feelings and had the same twisted drunken logic for years. I could learn how they got better, and they could speak to where I was at in my life.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 891
There is a lot of scientific evidence accepted by the broader medical community that the mental attitude of the patient and their active participation in a treatment plan is critical to a successful outcome.
Consider that the 12 steps is a treatment plan. The fact that it has a spiritual foundation is coincidental..evidence has also pointed out that spiritual faith changes neural pathways in the brain.
The allergy argument is relevant in that some people cannot physically tolerate any alcohol with displaying deleterious effects. I doubt I will get hives or go into bronchospasm if I drink a wine right now but I'm certain the effects will be deleterious and result in a descent toward active alcoholism given time.
Addiction is a complex mental, physiological and spiritual disease that is best treated using a range of modalities that address these multidimensional aspects. The 12 steps go a long way in addressing the mental and spiritual aspects of the disease for many people. Always keep an open mind. Doctors of western medicine are thankfully becoming more open minded about disease, it's causes and treatment. So should people in general.
Consider that the 12 steps is a treatment plan. The fact that it has a spiritual foundation is coincidental..evidence has also pointed out that spiritual faith changes neural pathways in the brain.
The allergy argument is relevant in that some people cannot physically tolerate any alcohol with displaying deleterious effects. I doubt I will get hives or go into bronchospasm if I drink a wine right now but I'm certain the effects will be deleterious and result in a descent toward active alcoholism given time.
Addiction is a complex mental, physiological and spiritual disease that is best treated using a range of modalities that address these multidimensional aspects. The 12 steps go a long way in addressing the mental and spiritual aspects of the disease for many people. Always keep an open mind. Doctors of western medicine are thankfully becoming more open minded about disease, it's causes and treatment. So should people in general.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 891
Originally Posted by Johno1967
There is a lot of scientific evidence accepted by the broader medical community that the mental attitude of the patient and their active participation in a treatment plan is critical to a successful outcome. Consider that the 12 steps is a treatment plan. The fact that it has a spiritual foundation is coincidental..evidence has also pointed out that spiritual faith changes neural pathways in the brain. The allergy argument is relevant in that some people cannot physically tolerate any alcohol with displaying deleterious effects. I doubt I will get hives or go into bronchospasm if I drink a wine right now but I'm certain the effects will be deleterious and result in a descent toward active alcoholism given time. Addiction is a complex mental, physiological and spiritual disease that is best treated using a range of modalities that address these multidimensional aspects. The 12 steps go a long way in addressing the mental and spiritual aspects of the disease for many people. Always keep an open mind. Doctors of western medicine are thankfully becoming more open minded about disease, it's causes and treatment. So should people in general.
Without deleterious effects
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North of England
Posts: 1,442
Personally I view all the language used un AA (literature and some of what is said) through the lens of a more modern understanding of addiction given much of the stuff was written over 70s years ago and also as a skeptic (being an atheist).
It can still make sense! I hope so anyway! Lol!
It can still make sense! I hope so anyway! Lol!
one of many
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ellisville, FL
Posts: 200
Without a higher power I have no defense against the first drink or drug, in my own experience, fellowship, AA, and the 12 steps are the only solution, however AA's are not anti-science, from the earliest times AA has found alliance with scientists and doctors. I myself see a psychiatrist and it is an integral part of my recovery. There are studies showing that meetings work like shots of Anti-depressants to the brain and have been analyzed via fMRI imaging. Everyone comes to their own understanding of higher power and thank goodness we do, I couldn't use some of the higher powers that were out there. lol
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
I am allergic to alcohol. my speech gets slurred, I blackout, I break out in a**holes, bruises, and occasionally handcuffs when I drink.
the BB uses the word disease once and even then it is talking about spiritual disease. the BB describes the symptoms.
cured? nope. pg 85 tells me some about that.
the BB explains why each step is suggested( and I found necessary).
the BB uses the word disease once and even then it is talking about spiritual disease. the BB describes the symptoms.
cured? nope. pg 85 tells me some about that.
the BB explains why each step is suggested( and I found necessary).
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 15,252
Why a spiritual cure.....
Well, not only was I physically sick with
putting poison, alcohol, in my system,
but it also affected my thinking, emotions,
my spirit, heart, soul.
Each time I drank I could have been mean,
cruel, selfish, dishonest, lying, stealing, all
making my heart and mind sick.
It never made me feel good when I we
cruelly making fun of others, lieing to
love ones, friends, not caring what happens
to others just as long as I got my way.
All self seeking, selfish motives that would
keep me sick in my addiction.
Having a successful program I was taught
and learned allowed my heart, soul and mind
to heal. To become compassionate, more loving,
more caring, more forgiving etc.
That to me is the spiritual progress I wanted
to achieve in recovery and my life. With out
healing mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally
in recovery with a program of recovery and Faith
in a Power greater than I, for guidance and care,
then I would remain in a prison of hell with my
addiction.
I wanted and still want to strieve to be the
best person I can be not only to myself but
for others around me.
Well, not only was I physically sick with
putting poison, alcohol, in my system,
but it also affected my thinking, emotions,
my spirit, heart, soul.
Each time I drank I could have been mean,
cruel, selfish, dishonest, lying, stealing, all
making my heart and mind sick.
It never made me feel good when I we
cruelly making fun of others, lieing to
love ones, friends, not caring what happens
to others just as long as I got my way.
All self seeking, selfish motives that would
keep me sick in my addiction.
Having a successful program I was taught
and learned allowed my heart, soul and mind
to heal. To become compassionate, more loving,
more caring, more forgiving etc.
That to me is the spiritual progress I wanted
to achieve in recovery and my life. With out
healing mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally
in recovery with a program of recovery and Faith
in a Power greater than I, for guidance and care,
then I would remain in a prison of hell with my
addiction.
I wanted and still want to strieve to be the
best person I can be not only to myself but
for others around me.
Fellow Traveler and Seeker
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,408
Great responses so far.
I see it exactly as the others do - a sort of holistic approach to the whole thing. In my mind, there is no doubt that the mind-body-spirit connection is strong and documented in many ways...so who is to say that in clearing up the spiritual (and emotional) side of things, that the mind and body are not to align in the same way. Alcoholism is not just drinking too much - that is a symptom of something deeper. Some use gambling, debting, sex, emotions, drugs, etc. to overcome or self-medicate that deeper something. When I use the full force of a HP alongside practical and precise actions, I am wresting away those causes and conditions, or at least dealing with them in a healthier way, so that alcohol no longer is an option, or even appealing any more.
I see it exactly as the others do - a sort of holistic approach to the whole thing. In my mind, there is no doubt that the mind-body-spirit connection is strong and documented in many ways...so who is to say that in clearing up the spiritual (and emotional) side of things, that the mind and body are not to align in the same way. Alcoholism is not just drinking too much - that is a symptom of something deeper. Some use gambling, debting, sex, emotions, drugs, etc. to overcome or self-medicate that deeper something. When I use the full force of a HP alongside practical and precise actions, I am wresting away those causes and conditions, or at least dealing with them in a healthier way, so that alcohol no longer is an option, or even appealing any more.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
Great responses. I +1 all of them. Great thread too.
Bigbook says alcoholism is a physical, mental, and spiritual malady. If I were around when they wrote the book I'd have convinced them to include "social" too
. The "spiritual" solution helped me to get healthy in the other 3 areas. I don't believe becoming healthy in any of the other 3 first, would have encompassed the rest as the spiritual did. Getting physically healthy would have been great, but I it wouldn't have helped me mentally, socially, or spiritually. And so on and so forth...
Getting mentally healthy seems as though it would have the same effect, yet many, such as myself weren't capable of that. Not by a longshot. Took a spiritual approach to help me to heal the mental part. Some here at SR do without the spiritual, and go at this from the mental angle. RR and AVRT seem to very much take that route.
IMO, even if taking another route our spirit nature needs healing, and I believe the only way we stay sober and happy is by working at all 4 of the areas I stated above. Spiritual, by the way, doesn't have to include god in it's definition as far as I (and many others) are concerned. That's a whole nuther subject though.
Bigbook says alcoholism is a physical, mental, and spiritual malady. If I were around when they wrote the book I'd have convinced them to include "social" too
. The "spiritual" solution helped me to get healthy in the other 3 areas. I don't believe becoming healthy in any of the other 3 first, would have encompassed the rest as the spiritual did. Getting physically healthy would have been great, but I it wouldn't have helped me mentally, socially, or spiritually. And so on and so forth...Getting mentally healthy seems as though it would have the same effect, yet many, such as myself weren't capable of that. Not by a longshot. Took a spiritual approach to help me to heal the mental part. Some here at SR do without the spiritual, and go at this from the mental angle. RR and AVRT seem to very much take that route.
IMO, even if taking another route our spirit nature needs healing, and I believe the only way we stay sober and happy is by working at all 4 of the areas I stated above. Spiritual, by the way, doesn't have to include god in it's definition as far as I (and many others) are concerned. That's a whole nuther subject though.
Peace, Love, Sobriety
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 1,549
Originally Posted by WhiteFeathers
Hi. I'm giving AA a real shot. I've been going to meetings diligently for a few months now and I'm sincerely wondering...
If alcoholism is a physical disease-- an allergy, like Dr. Silkworth puts it in the BB-- then why do we need the moral inventory, the making of amends, etc. that results in the spiritual treatment of the disease?
If alcoholism is an "allergy" that you are born with, something like-- I want to say, celiac disease (you eat one piece of gluten and then you get sick)-- what does confessing my wrongs to someone else do? How do working the steps prevent me from picking up the first drink?
This is an inconsistency that is really creating a lot of cognitive dissonance for me and I would really love some input from people who have experience with the 12 steps.
If alcoholism is a physical disease-- an allergy, like Dr. Silkworth puts it in the BB-- then why do we need the moral inventory, the making of amends, etc. that results in the spiritual treatment of the disease?
If alcoholism is an "allergy" that you are born with, something like-- I want to say, celiac disease (you eat one piece of gluten and then you get sick)-- what does confessing my wrongs to someone else do? How do working the steps prevent me from picking up the first drink?
This is an inconsistency that is really creating a lot of cognitive dissonance for me and I would really love some input from people who have experience with the 12 steps.
Peace, Love, Sobriety
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 1,549
Originally Posted by WhiteFeathers
OK. But you are never "cured" from alcoholism. You are never straightened out physically. I can see how working the steps has potential to treat the "mental obsession" with drinking. But the physical allergy never goes away.
Why are people born with a spiritual sickness?
Why are people born with a spiritual sickness?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by WhiteFeathers
Hi. I'm giving AA a real shot. I've been going to meetings diligently for a few months now and I'm sincerely wondering...
If alcoholism is a physical disease-- an allergy, like Dr. Silkworth puts it in the BB-- then why do we need the moral inventory, the making of amends, etc. that results in the spiritual treatment of the disease?
If alcoholism is an "allergy" that you are born with, something like-- I want to say, celiac disease (you eat one piece of gluten and then you get sick)-- what does confessing my wrongs to someone else do? How do working the steps prevent me from picking up the first drink?
This is an inconsistency that is really creating a lot of cognitive dissonance for me and I would really love some input from people who have experience with the 12 steps.
If alcoholism is a physical disease-- an allergy, like Dr. Silkworth puts it in the BB-- then why do we need the moral inventory, the making of amends, etc. that results in the spiritual treatment of the disease?
If alcoholism is an "allergy" that you are born with, something like-- I want to say, celiac disease (you eat one piece of gluten and then you get sick)-- what does confessing my wrongs to someone else do? How do working the steps prevent me from picking up the first drink?
This is an inconsistency that is really creating a lot of cognitive dissonance for me and I would really love some input from people who have experience with the 12 steps.
We doctors have realized for a long time that some form of moral psychology was of urgent importance to alcoholics..
After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well-known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink again. This is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery.
once a psychic change has occurred, the very same person who seemed doomed, who had so many problems he despaired of ever solving them, suddenly finds himself easily able to control his desire for alcohol, the only effort necessary being that required to follow a few simple rules.
the steps give us that psychic change and we have spiritual awakenings.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
spiritual change of heart and mind
Originally Posted by WhiteFeathers
spiritual treatment of the disease?
Thus, I used to worship the liquid devil
Now if, we are truly putting God first in our lives
There has been a spiritual change of heart and mind
Mountainman
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