adee

I have been working the steps with a sponsor - this is someone I don't know all that well but I like and respect her and I think she has something to teach me. She has 29 years sobriety and is very involved in the program and sponsors a lot of women. I've gotten a lot of feedback from her already that is really helpful and not what I would have gotten on my own. Example: when I asked her what I should be doing, she said, "call people" (which I know - I'm terrible at calling) and when I told her I was doing that and even meeting someone for coffee that week, she said (gently), "not for you, start calling newcomers. Reach out and help." I've been so focused on getting footing in my own sobriety that I honestly wouldn't have thought i have anything to offer, but I do. She was right. So this week I've been reaching out to newcomers, exchanging numbers, texting, and it feels good.

The back story just to say - I think this is a good person and while I don't know her well, I feel my trust is well invested with this person.

So, yesterday we did the 5th step. I feel really off and upset since. I am kind of reeling from a few comments she made to me. She completely turned around a resentment I've been holding to shine the light on my part in it - actually, she did that on several, and I guess I just wasn't prepared for how that would feel. She wasn't harsh, but she was quite matter of fact and it kind of felt like a level blow to my sense of self. At first, right afterwards, I felt a little anticlimactic, like, hmmm, the 4th/5th step wasn't the revelation I expected. But I think that was just defensive coping on my part to minimize my emotions. Since then, my unrest has grown hour over hour and I feel really upset and uncomfortable and am questioning the trust I put in this person - do I really know her? How could I tell these things to a stranger? etc. I feel beyond vulnerable and it is very difficult. I also don't like some things she highlighted. It's like I brought my 4th step neatly packaged up and palatable to me and she blew it up and I'm trying to pick up the pieces.

The bottom line is that I know I need to trust her and the process. And I know I need to pray about this not just turn it around in my mind, but actually turn it over to god.

I think all I'm trying to say to you all is...this is hard. Really hard. Harder than I expected. And ask to those who have been through it: how do you get passed or through the tough spots in the steps? How do you deal with the fear and discomfort of looking clearly at yourself after so many years of hiding your flaws even from yourself?

Thanks.

Boleo

I found that walking through fear, adversity and failure from the perspective of a student, rather than from the perspective of a victim, helped me grow more than anything else that I have experienced in life. Thus the expression:

"No pain. No gain".

jdooner

My life was anything from neat and packaged up. I am still doing my fourth step and it goes back to my childhood with over 180 people on my list and is pages and pages. Part of the delay is also me finding an excuse instead of working on my step #4. Today I try to get a page a day written.


I never met an addict that broke free from addiction and said it was easy. What we are doing few can successfully do. For me I am changing everything in my life. This is by far the hardest thing I have ever done but one that I am most proud of because its the foundation to which everything else in my life can be built on and is solid!

Music

Hi adee. Good to see you here on SR.

You've made a couple real good points that took me back to my first fourth and fifth steps. These two steps are talked about so much and seem to be the scariest to deal with. I found that I set myself up to feel certain ways before and after doing these steps. So much talk was about how scary they are. Writing stuff down about myself was troubling, then I had to tell someone else about what I'd written....wow! Even the Big Book sets us up in a way because it explains feelings we may feel as a result of doing these steps and who doesn't want to feel euphoric upon completing these steps. I did feel some relief but not euphoric. I was embarrassed about some things I talked about until my sponsor shared some things he'd done which were way crazier than my stuff. He said I wasn't unique. He had some questions and brought up some points I hadn't considered, but I didn't take what he said personally. When I was drinking, I had the habit of deflecting responsibility from me to other people, places and things. He knew that so he kept bringing the responsibility back to me. Tough to face some of that. The Big Book shows us an example of how to do our fourth step with columns. When I turn the page I find out there's actually room for another column for the part I played. When I left that out, he brought it home.

I think the most important thing to remember is to be "thorough" when doing the fourth step. It has to be in writing and as thorough as I can be at that time. After all, I can only be as thorough as I can be right now. More will be revealed in time, which is why there's no limit on the number of times I can do a fourth step. After the first initial fourth step, I can either choose to write more of them, or use the tenth step and talk about things that come up in the future. Whichever I think is most helpful. There's no right or wrong way to work these steps, as long as we work them to the best of our ability....at the time. Most of the people I've observed who either have a real hard time with the steps, or end up going back out are the ones who don't/won't work them, or continue to be dissatisfied with how they worked them. I've had sponsors for years and still have one that I can bounce my crazy thoughts off of and that's what they're for. Go back and talk to your sponsor and be honest about your thoughts. Tell her your concerns about the feelings you experienced because of what she pointed out. You might learn something and I can almost guarantee you'll feel better, not to mention you'll know more about each other in the end....and that's the key to success.

The basic things I hold on to are: Don't Drink....Go to meetings....Get a sponsor.....and work the steps. Sounds like you're on the right track. Don't run yourself off track by thinking things that create doubt. Be confident that with the help of your Higher Power, your sponsor, and your honesty that you never have to drink again. EVER!!

GracieLou

I am sorry you are feeling bad and I also did not have the “revelation” I was expecting. I think for some it takes time for it all to sink in.

I think this is an example of why it is so important to have a sponsor. I don’t think I would have seen what my sponsor pointed out to me. Left to my own devices I would have painted myself right into a corner again and using justification and rationalization to help me.

Try and get your mind off it. It took me several days for my head to clear. There were also things I remembered that I had forgotten to put down. I made sure I wrote them down. I took them to my sponsor later on.

It is a process, a journey. Give yourself some time and space. Just don’t pick up and call someone if you feel like you want to. This is also a one day a time thing. The peace you are seeking may come one day a time as well.

Everything is going to be okay, hang in there

BadCompany

Recovery, sobriety, happiness, connection with others and our higher power all exist outside of our comfort zone.

Tamerua

Hi adee, glad you're here!

I experienced a little of this. I saw, doing my 4th and 5th, that I was not responsible for some things (like things that happened in my childhood) but that those things I wasn't responsible for totally shaped my future, instilling all of this stuff and how I acted and behaved and my sponsor pointed that out, also in a matter of fact way. Not sure if that makes sense.

It's ok! The great thing is that it's all fixable because you just have to work on you, which will be in the next 7 steps. Good for you for getting through it, a lot of people don't get through those steps because they can be painful. Keep moving on up.

Grungehead

Hi adee,

Did you do your 6th and 7th steps the same day? I had some similar feelings and I think it's because in doing a 5th step my sponsor shined a light on all of the BS and excuses I had made for carrying those resentments around for years. After an hour of quiet reflection I took all of those pieces you mentioned and took them to my HP and asked Him to remove them. It was when I was reciting the 7th step prayer that I had my "revelation". I had a brief but powerful spiritual experience after getting on my knees and humbly asking God to remove my shortcomings. At that point I better understood the significance of the 5th step.

Joe Nerv

Sorry this is stinging the way it is. Your sponsor is actually guiding you in the proper direction though. Not sure why she wasn't coaching you along during the 4th step though.

While there is a lot of talk in the rooms about what it says regarding resentments in the bigbook, it's not always made clear that that's merely a device to get at what's going on with us, and to help rid ourselves of those resentments. A 5th step is about telling of OUR part. And never about what the other people were doing. It sounds to me like you were talking about what people did to you, and your sponsor kept guiding you as gently as she knew - back to your part in it. Which is what it is supposed to be about.

I don't think there's anything wrong with feeling uncomfortable about what transpired, and I'm quite certain it will pass. As someone else already stated, the 6th and 7th steps shine some light on the things we may be sore from in our 4th and 5th. It is generally advised to get right into them immediately after the 5th.

If you're still having trouble, you may need to practice turning your life and will over to the care if god a little more. It's one thing to do that, but for most it takes some time to trust and actually believe that we ARE in fact under new management. If you've been diligently applying a 3rd step to your life and program, then things are going just as they should. Working these steps are part of a healing process, and we all heal differently. It's ok to be uncomfortable... I think the things that make us the most uncomfortable, are the things we grow from most.

Sounds to me like you're doing an awesome job. Hang in there. It gets better.

mick3580

I agree with pretty much all that has been written here. For me, without the book book directions, I was unclear on what I was supposed to be seeing and why. Secondly, having a clear understanding of steps 1,, 2, and 3 was helpful. In step 1 I admit that I can't drink and I can't not drink. In step two I became willing to believe that a higher power could help me. In step 3 I made a decision to find the power. Steps four and five help me see what has blocked me from the power. Steps six and seven ask for those things to be removed and then turning away from self will. Steps 8 and 9 address looking at the harms I cussed based on the wrongs I did when living without the guidance of a higher power power in my life and amending the harms.

I don't know the OP's exact situation but having this understanding was helpful. Read chapter five and six in the big book. You might get a better idea of what is going on with your process with the steps.

hardhearts

I can identify with this. I just worked steps 4/5 and I'm starting 6/7 but I am struggling with this feeling that I can't really pinpoint. It's in the pit of my stomach and I feel really uneasy and I'm not sure why because everyone talks about feeling free after saying their 5th step. I should talk with my sponsor about it but I feel like I've done something wrong. I think for some people it just takes time to let go of what we've been holding on to for years and years. Some let go of things more easily than others, some people need time to process what they've done in the 5th step and what it means to them and how to move forward and offer up their defects. Or I'm hoping so, anyway... haha.

mfanch

I had the same feeling. My ego was bruised and did not like it.

My sponsor also added that we look into the mirror so that we can use our past to help others....it's not really about us. We are beginning to become agents of a higher power and need to squash the self-centeredness. I did not want to admit that I was as selfish and self-centered as I really was. Steps 6 and 7 were cathartic for me. Finally I was acting my way into correct thinking. Getting there was painful, though. Once I saw in the mirror who I really was, I was a little distraught. But now I could gain perspective and really, for the first REAL time ever, become humble.

I'm not all that and a bag of chips anymore, and that's fine with me. I am happier not being queen of the universe. Now I'm just a grain of sand on a beach. Perfect. The BB calls this "changing our angle".

Glad you are here.

awuh1

I expected relief from doing the 5th step. Immediately following it I got anything but relief. I was quite overwhelmed in fact.

Nevertheless, I hope that your discomfort is like was like mine was, because, although it was very unpleasant, I believe it was at least in part connected to a later spiritual awakening. I can't explain how this is. Nevertheless there is an interesting reference to this in the book. In the story about Roland H. , Carl Jung (prior to AAs inception) is reported to have said:

"Here and there, once in a while, alcoholics have had what are called vital spiritual experiences. To me these occurrences are phenomena. They appear to be in the nature of huge emotional displacements and rearrangements. Ideas, emotions, and attitudes which were once the guiding forces of the lives of these men are suddenly cast to one side, and a completely new set of conceptions and motives begin to dominate them." (Alcoholics Anonymous 1st edition page 27)

The steps are designed to bring about a spiritual awakening, and perhaps this is the beginning of that process for you. It is my experience that, OFTEN, something which at first appears to be a bad thing turns out to be something quite different.

sugarbear1

didja get to the defects of character? knowing we are self centered.....and then getting to realize it's not about us? get past 6 and 7 as soon as possible.....

adee

Thank you, thank you, thank you all. I have been knee deep in work madness today but have read the responses and I so appreciate the advice and understanding. Truly.

I guess a lot of this was expectation. I knew what to expect from talking with my sponsor and from reading the big book, but what happened was still very different. And I was expecting the 5th step promises to be pretty much immediately fulfilled -

...and let's just say THAT didn't happen!

But what of it - the last almost six months have been humbling from day one through today. And thank god for that.

I went to a meeting yesterday and the speaker made the comment, "I knew intellectually I was an alcoholic for years, but not until I took the first step did I accept it in the deepest part of me." I've been thinking a lot about that and I think my experience w/ these steps was similar. I knew what I was getting into and that it would be hard, but I knew this only in my rational brain. Incorporating those hard truths into my very spirit was something else entirely. It knocked me on my metaphysical ass and there I've sat for a while.

Which I guess is ok. If nothing else, the pain of sitting with this leads me right into the sixth and seventh step (which I did go through today). It has brought some relief but I still feel a sense that there is much more to do on the fourth step for me. More to be revealed.

Anyway - as always - just amazingly helpful to hear from you all. Thank you again.

FlyerFan

If we don't see our part in things, we will never stop hurting people. Even if we don't realize we are hurting them at that moment in time.

tomsteve

good stuff, there,adee, and very valid stuff,IMO. yup, it can be hard, but it doesn't have to be. something that helped me was hearing ,"there aint no such thing as an original sin. no original though, action, or words. its all been done before. only about 7 billion people on this plant at this time and yer gonn have to work real hard to find something you have done,thought, or said that's original.


fear and discomfort.... I was rockin on my 4th step. used to have detox in town and one day caught one of the clients say,"i got to my 4th step and drank." realized I had heard that a few times. after the meeting, I mentioned it to a man."here I am rockin on my 4th step. but I hear people sayin they went out and drank when they got to the 4th. why am I rockin on it and they drank?"
"you did the first 3 steps."
how I got through the tough parts..... welp, I had read the BB many times and believed( and still do) what it says. a few things is says I believed( these are promises of what would happen if I didn't work the steps):

But after a while we had to face the fact that we must find a spiritual basis of life - or else.
We thought we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not.
Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.
any life run on self-will can hardly be a success.
in collision with something or somebody, even though our motives are good.
Though our decision was a vital and crucial step, it could have little permanent effect unless at once followed by a strenuous effort to face, and to be rid of, the things in ourselves which had been blocking us
To conclude that others were wrong was as far as most of us ever got. The usual outcome was that people continued to wrong us and we stayed sore.
It is plain that a life which includes deep resentment leads only to futility and unhappiness
If we skip this vital step(5th), we may not overcome drinking.
Trying to avoid this humbling experience, they have turned to easier methods. Almost invariably they got drunk.

that was some of them. just as with the promises behind every step that will materialize if we work for them, there are promises for every step if we don't.

so what I did was got me some courage. it really helped also to be at a lot of 1st step and what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now meetings. hearing people talkin about past actions and thoughts with absolutely no reservation- no concern of what others thought of them, knowing what they were sayin was true about them, but nearly impossible to believe because they weren't like that anymore as a result of the steps, helped tremendously,too.

so, I got some courage and trudged.
well worth every second. not doin that was gonna take me back to the bottle and certain death.

adee

Thanks tomsteve.

That was my underlying worry. Do I feel bad because I did the step wrong? And if I did it wrong, what are the consequences?

And what does it mean to do it wrong? And how do I right it? I suspect the key words from the 5th step promises are: withholding nothing. I kept thinking of new things to add afterwards. I think I need to be more thorough and more specific.

My sponsor gave me another idea of how to organize the 4th step work so I'm going to try that and see what happens and then next week we are going to have another go at this. But I'm also going to continue with the steps because another voice is asking, "are you stalling in the 4th because you want to put off the 9th?"

I just...I don't want to be a perfectionist because that's part of what got me here - giving up on stuff because I couldn't do it perfectly. So at some level I think acceptance is part of this. That things won't go the way I expect them, that I every promise may not be revealed in the order I would prefer and the onus is still on my to keep working, to keep developing, to approach each day open, honest and willing even if what it delivers feels ******. Right sizing self is not for the faint of heart, that's for sure.

I do feel better letting some time, prayer and talk with other AAs work through me. Happy joyous and free may need to wait for another day but I can see it from here. And I'm grateful to have a problem that I wake up at 5am thinking about how to live better rather than waking up wishing to die. That promise is being delivered every single day without fail and that is more than enough as I figure the rest out.

Music

The signs are/were there when I came to AA that alcoholism actually existed in my life, but until I worked steps four through nine, I really wasn't convinced. Alcoholism is to me, a self-diagnosis. I've known so many people who drank the way I did, and had the same problems, but never acknowledged the fact that they were alcoholic. Some just said they didn't want to be known as an alcoholic. I think this is what is meant in How It Works that we have to be "rigorously" honest with ourselves. The promises after the fifth step came true for me to some extent, but the greatest gift I received was the ability to honestly admit I was alcoholic. Next came the sincere feeling that I actually belonged in AA. That I was an actual member in good standing because I wasn't drinking, and that I'd worked the steps to the best of my ability which meant that I could share more of my experiences with others. There's an old saying that goes: "Sober up a horse thief and you still have a horse thief." There was a time when I was known as a liar, thief, adulterer, cheat and all around bad person. If I drink again, all those characteristics will return, but for now, I'm sober. If I hadn't worked those steps, I wouldn't have gained the knowledge I needed to make that self diagnosis. I'm a sober alcoholic and I don't care who knows, as long as I don't forget. The "ism" is still there. I'm a dehydrated horse thief. Pour in one drink, and it all comes back.

muvinon

Welcome to the real deal. Looking at my part, receiving feedback that my perception is off......got easier the more I did it.

Those resentments we nutured....like babies. Can feel weird to recognize we actually created a lot of the pain within ourselves.