Joe Nerv

Just stumbled upon this website while viewing some AA stuff on youtube. Wanted to see what Clancy was all about, as I never listened to him. The first talk of his that came up started with a few jokes regarding Jews, and while I thought it was odd, I didn't think much of it... but I wanted to dig deeper, and in a search came across this:

aacultwatch

Had a good laugh at first (liked the pamphlet on how to be a circuit speaker ), then after diving in a bit more, noticed that there's some serious stuff they're getting into. Had no idea that part of Clancy's program involves turning your life and your will over to Jesus. A bit of an eye opener for me. As are a lot of other things on that website.

Just thought I'd put it out there for discussion.

CousinA

It's good I'm on my way to a speaking commitment so my next contribution may come from a place of love, compassion, kindness and justice ;-)

I have friends who got and are staying sober in the Pacific and Atlantic Groups but I have serious issues with them and Clancy.

Anyway.... off to service for me.

-allan

Joe Nerv

Hey, ya might just be speaking at my group.

Music

Clancy was in AA long before all the PC BS came about. Back then, people used to be able to laugh at themselves. Now, not so much. One of my favorite people in AA is a friend of my wife's whose in the program. I frequently refer to her as my "favorite Jew." We laugh about it which is something I'd suggest you find out how to do.

AA talks about finding a higher power....call it God, Buddah, or even Jesus. If that offends you, don't listen. By the way, Jesus was a Jew and I spend some of my own time with him. Knowing my history and He being accepting of me definately shows He has a sense of humor. Laughing at ourselves is a gift that comes from being sober and not taking life or myself so seriously. Try it you might like it.

Veritas1

Clancy's talks have really helped me. Everyone has their own path. Birds of a feather will flock together.

I wouldn't waste my time reading any gossip about Clancy. I am sure he has done more good than bad.

This is a link to one of my favorite talks from him in case anyone would like to listen...

Clancy I. from Venice, CA : The State Line Retreat (Steps 1 and 2 and 3) in Primm, NV : AA Speaker Tapes

tomsteve

i was thinkin along the same lines as music.
if i hear someone call their higher power allah, jahovah, buddah, Jesus, a squirrell,or whatever it may be, then i have a problem.

Had no idea that part of Clancy's program involves turning your life and your will over to Jesus.
i have yet to hear or read clancy tell anyone what their higher power is to be.

UncleMeat69

There is a little good in the worst of us and a little bad in the best of us. All alky's have feet of clay and I have learned through the years to put no one on a pedestal as I have seen a good number of long termers relapse.

Here is some stuff I know of Clancy. He started the Midnight Mission in downtown Los Angeles were hundreds of skid row drunks recovered. maybe they needed the type of sponsor that told them exactly what to do for their recovery. Who knows.
I know he has sponsored thousands of people who now possess long term sobriety and carry his message to thousands more suffering alky's. Would Clancy I. be my type of sponsor - hell no - but I would never put down anyone who has helped another drunk achieve recovery.

Don't know if you heard of a guy by the name of Charles Dietrich. He was a big circuit speaker quite renown in AA circles. He started helping heroin addicts and founded a program similar to Clancy's Midnight Mission called Synanon. Then he became corrupted and culted out with disastrous consequences that resulted in Manson style killing squads.

My point is that any of us is vulnerable to corruption no matter how long were sober or how popular we become. It is still an inside job on whether we fall victim to the BB term "Smug complacency." I don't see that in Clancy and I certainly do not see cultism at this stage of the game. Hopefully he will continue to help more and more drunks...

Joe Nerv

While there are lots of things I'd like to (and could) say in response to Music's post, I shall take the high road and refrain. My favorite Jew is my wife, and I've learned that her experience is different than mine when it comes to PC BS (as Music calls it). I'll leave it at that.

As for my initial post, Clancy's Jewish comments didn't mean a whole lot to me, as I stated.... just thought they were odd. What totally blew me away was what I found when, ahem... well.... hmmm.... I did a search... and came up with clancy's guide to the steps. Found this:

STEP THREE: We made the decision that we needed to come under new management since our own management got us nowhere. So

we turn our wills and lives over to the care of our new manager -- Jesus. He will take care of us and manage our lives since we

admitted in Step 1 that our lives were unmanageable, and in Step 2, that He could restore us to a manageable state and sanity. At this point both of you get down on your knees… Both on knees, the sponsor says: "Jesus, this is ___(name)____, he is coming to You in
all humility to ask You to guide and direct him. ______(name)_____realizes that his life is messed up and unmanageable.
_____(name)_____ is coming to You Lord in all humility to ask to be one of your children -- to work for you, to serve and dedicate
his life to You and to turn his will and life over that he may be an instrument of Your love. Person repeats after sponsor: "Lord, I ask
that You guide and direct me, and that I have decided to turn my will and life over to You. To serve You and dedicate my life to You.
I ask all this in the name of Jesus Christ. I thank you Lord; I believe that if I ask this in prayer, I shall receive what I have asked for.

Thank you Jesus. Amen."

Looking for it again just now, I... uh... realized that didn't come from Clancy. Came from Clarence S, who popped up probably from a google typo. That's what became my introduction to Clancy. The Jewish jokes, then the above.

When we were wrong, promptly admitted it....

OK. Anyhow, the point of this thread had to do with the website and message of it. Not Clancy, but I've a feeling where this is about to go...

UncleMeat69

Thanks Joe. It makes more sense now as Clarence S. was definitely into Jesus.

Yeah, the website is rather odd IMO since it appears to be somewhat of a sounding board for AA bashers, yet it is not "in your face" talking points like some sites I have read.

DayTrader

nevermind

Veritas1

No worries Joe.

Alraihani

Imagine how many people Clancy hurt by telling people its okay to kick out addicts. 3rd tradition means what it says. Thankfully i come from an AA school of thought thats different. And his comments that are ridfen eith anti semitic undertones.

omegasupreme

Awesome stuff! I just got out of a 99 minute talk with the fox himself. He's got quite a Rule 62 sense of humor much like that entire lineage.

laurie6781

Thank you Joe!

Very interesting site!!!!

In my travels over the years, I have stumbled across the types of meetings and people they are out to 'headline.' I am usually very glad at the end of the meeting and talking to a few folks, that I am only a visitor and will not have to attend said meeting again. But you know what? That is what AA is all about, each group to have a 'group consciousness' on all sorts of topics.

Lets face it, every meeting is just a Group Of Drunks, roflmao and sometimes they can get pretty far off the main track.

As to Clancy I. Oh boy ...................... I could probably write pages and pages about Clancy. Some folks like him, some folks hate him, and some folks are just 'ho hun' about him. I got to meet him and get to know him very early in my recovery, because he was close friends with my sponsor and her hubby (also in AA). I can honestly say that when away from the AA Fellowship, he can be a lot of fun!!! He has some very interesting stories to tell! And yes, the Mission he started in downtown L.A. is still there and is still thriving.

He has helped many a poor drunk find sobriety and/or maintain sobriety and clean their 'act' up. To me that outweighs a lot of the negatives attributed to him.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

Michael66

Hi Tom,

Do you mind me asking why you have a problem with people naming God? As a Christian it would seem odd to me not to name Jesus as my saviour (in fact I don't think one could be a Christian and not acknowledge Christ; scripture is pretty clear about that).

Must one hide one's faith in AA? (I'm not in AA thought the twelve steps helped me a lot).

tomsteve

i dont have a problem with it, but ifi do, its my problem and not the other persons.

i am also a Christian, but when it comes to AA, i want to help any who suffer from alcoholism. my focus there is helping others recover from alcoholism. there many people that come into A that were beat up by religion and i dont want to push them away from something that could help them tremendously.
i didnt want anything to do with the bible, religion or the God of the bible when i got into AA and i mut not gorget what it took t get me to where i am today: patience.

Michael66

Thnaks Tom - I misunderstood you. I thought you said you had a problem with it.

Crossed wires

God bless +

Tommyh

my favorite Jew is my sponsor
a little gray haired brother

I do not keep up with what others think or say about AA
or AA people
if I got time to take their inventory,then I`m not taking mine

CousinA

Maybe... who knows if our paths have crossed over the years.

One of the things I love about AA in NYC is going to the 8 PM meeting of the Midnite Group.

tomsteve

this made me laugh... midnite group meeting at 8....we ought not be organized!!!