pinkchampagne

I have been reading about FOG. I understand the part about how you can be controlled by fear, like you could be hurt, and I understand about the guilt because that is trying to persuade you to do something you don’t want to do. But I am confused about the obligation part. I mean if your in a relationship of any kind there are sort of normal obligations that comes along with its seems like. Do you just use your own judgement and what feels right for you, as to what is normal obligation for your relationship? I mean that is what I think because its not like there are exact rights and wrongs. Ive also been thinking a lot about types of manipulation and if it all takes the form of FOG. Everything I can think of seems to or it is tied to another feeling that is based on one of those, like being sad is attached to guilt ?

And this whole FOG thing isn’t really just about addicts, or learned by addicts ,its only they use it a lot right. Im trying to learn about this because Ive been reading about boundaries too, but I don’t think I know how to make them if I cant understand this other stuff first and how Ive been affected by things my boyfriend has done to me.

LoveMeNow

I think is a good link that explains FOG - FOG is just not for codependency with addicts, it can involve codependency for several different "disorders."

Out of the FOG - What is FOG

FindingErica

I think of obligation as using love and relationship.

Chino

LMN, I liked that site's bottom line definition for obligation manipulation:

"things which do not always help us thrive and prosper."

If someone asks me to do something that isn't good for me too, not just them, then it's a bunch of BS.

pinkchampagne

He hurt me because while Ive had all this faith in him, he hasn’t had the same back for me. He finally has told me the whole truth about his past, drug use and all that, but he didn’t do it until he was forced to. Because I gave him one chance to tell me everything and told him if I found out he left anything out then I would never trust him again. But the thing is I don’t know if I can trust him now even that he has told me. I sort of manipulated him into telling me, and I understand in a way why he did keep it all from me, but when I asked him over and over how could he keep lying at that point?

Thanks for the link LovemenNot, I read it and this part I find helpful right now.

“Don't sustain any situation or relationship where you do not have the option to say "no" where it is reasonable to do so. Nobody who is a true friend will demand "yes" 100% of the time. Healthy relationships are two-way streets - not one-way streets and anyone who is a true friend or who truly loves you will give as much as they receive”

oooopps

if asking an addict over and over for answers would give us answers... then most of us would not be here. Asking him over and over doesnt stop the lies... it just gives him fuel to generate more lies.

my ex lied to me about having a college degree (he is only high school educated.... I still dont even know if he even finished high school)... he lied about having studied abroad (when he was actually sent to a very expensive treatment program abroad for heroin addiction). I didnt learn about these things until one year later. I've had all sorts of conversation and Q&A session with him. Like you, I've asked him over and over about everything. Most of it were lies.

Wake up.

tjp613

The trust of the innocent is the liar's most useful tool.
--Stephen King

dollydo

Whatever he told you is probably still only 50% of the truth. Addicts are such skilled liars
that they could fool the Pope.

pinkchampagne

I think that is one of the things I think about right now. Is there more he has kept from me? But I still cant say that I think he is right now an addict. Up until things with his past had to be dealt with we were very happy and there were not the red flags that Ive read about here. His time was counted for, he had money to spend on things, he wasn’t getting texts late at night, he had an even mood, and he was good to me. I am seeing signs where he sometimes manipulated me to get me to do things he wanted and he played on my love and trust for him. But I can see that I did the same to him too. That may be more relationship related than addiction related. I have talked to my mom about some of that but not a lot yet because she is still mad at me and Im trying not to bring him up a lot to her right now and make things worse. Im staying at my parents right now because of that, and I do need to get my head together and think about things while Im away from him. Of course he agreed, but keeps calling and texting telling me he wants to talk and I say not yet please leave me alone for a little while. This site Ive learned a lot of things about being stronger, and I think habits he may have formed when he was an addict that are not all gone yet.

lightseeker

Hi Pink,

more than anything I'm glad that you are back safely from a rough situation and are taking time to think, learn, and figure out what you want and feel. I had a similar experience with my ex husband where he had hidden a lot of his past and told me a number of lies. I had the converstation about "just tell me the truth, the whole truth and then we'll be done with it". In hindsight, I maybe got 80% of it.

Addictive thinking comes in many many forms and the behaviors that accompany that sort of thinking seem to stick around long after someone quits using. That's why a recovery program is so important...It takes a lot of work to change behaviors.

You asked a good question about FOG...It's helping me to learn about it too.

DJ0822

Pink , I am so happy you are wise enough to go home. You are entitled to be in a loving environment where you can feel safe while you work through things. I have been watching for your post that you finally went home. Proud of you for the courage that took! You go, girl!!

Ann

Girl, you have come a long way and I am very proud of you for getting this far. You did the right thing to go home and put distance between you. Give yourself lots of time to clear your thinking and see things from a better perspective. I have always maintained that having a front row seat to active addiction is the worst seat in the house. We need to leave the theatre and drama and clear our heads if we want to stay healthy and do what is right for us.

Now might be a good time to find yourself an Al-anon or Nar-anon meeting and begin working on your own issues. Just as I tried way too long to fix my son when he didn't want to be fixed, there is something that kept you in a very dangerous situation and I promise you it wasn't "love"...it was codependency and the more you learn about that, the healthier your relationships will be.

Hugs

Kindeyes

I'm glad to hear that you are taking time to think and explore your situation.

My son mastered the art of keeping me in a FOG and I voluntarily stayed there for a very long time. I also had no concept of boundaries and I needed to explore the "why" of that. I realized that I was taught that I had no right to boundaries by my father as I was growing up. I say this not to blame him but to understand why I didn't understand how to establish boundaries.

Taking time for yourself to discover and understand what makes YOU tick may be the greatest gift of this situation. I suggest that you take the time you need and don't let anyone (parents, boyfriend, friends) rush you through the process. When we get in touch with ourselves, our feelings and our boundaries, our lives are open to healthier relationships.

gentle hugs
ke

pinkchampagne

My boyfriend did graduate from college, and he has a good job at the same place for over two years now. Since I met him he has got a promotion. So yeah he makes enough to pay all his bills and I don’t think his family sends him money for that type of stuff. He has a house and he bought it before I knew him, but he did tell me his parents helped him with it, but we are both young and I think that is alright otherwise he probably wouldn’t have been able to get a place as nice. He got a new car a few months ago and traded in his old one. His parents did do that for him, they sent him a check to pay the lease all up front so the lease was cheaper and he doesn’t have payments to make now.

pinkchampagne

Ive been trying to write how I feel today but its not coming across, I don’t think Ive made much progress except for being home and being at my parents. I don’t know how Im feeling I guess. I miss my boyfriend, but how does a person let themselves have the life he was living.

I thought he was a recreational drug user but now I think he was more an addict. But he says he stopped slowly and Ive read on here about how people do that and I know it is possible. But then I also read a lot about how important it is for people who are in recovery to have a support system and go to meetings and have friends who understand and can talk to him if he gets cravings or let him know if they see him headed towards a relapse because he starts drinking too much or something. And my boyfriend doesn’t have any of that. I don’t want to have kids and have him turn into an addict again. All the people in his life now don’t know anything about his past. He would be ashamed for them to know and I feel like Im the only one he has.

We have been texting back and forth and I finally agreed to spend tomorrow with him. I know that is stupid but I miss him and he is just saying a few hours to be together because he misses me so much. I asked him to give me a little time to spend with my family, and clear my mind and he is already using my love for him and FOG to manipulate me into being with him and then he will try to control my thinking again.

I don’t think Ive learned that much or become stronger because it hasn’t taken much for me to give in. But as soon as I start to feel strong where I could tell him no, not yet. I think about how he will maybe go find someone else, and I will lose him, and what if Im wrong and he isn’t trying to manipulate me but he is missing me like I missing him and its hurting him to be apart.

lesliej

hey pink...the love to manipulation ratio isn't necessarily a black and white ordeal. we all "manipulate" to a certain degree, just like we're all selfish to a certain degree. it's about gradations on the grey scale. addicts just have a much darker shade, and when they are trying to protect their addiction the grey goes into black. love disappears because it's all about protecting the use and in order to do so it usually requires manipulation and lies.

there is a saying in recovery, that "we don't regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it" this is because we are as sick as the secrets we keep. starting a new life is awesome, but manipulating the truth and hiding the past is a stealth and secretive behavior and it doesn't bode well. I make plenty of new friends all the time, and they know about my past. I let people know about my past because it is part of the way that I love myself, I accept that I have a problem that used to have me. it is also how I send a message out there for others who might need the help, need the openness and honesty.

his trying so hard to connect with you instead of giving you some peace and quiet to think and reflect is manipulative AND it's because he misses you. most things in life are both/and, not either/or. believe me, any of us here who have had to walk away know how much our person "misses" us. and they do...for various reasons. its going to come down to how much you can accept...but you need to be able to know what it actually IS that you're accepting!

he needs to work through all of this giant mess that has reared its head from his hidden past...and you do NOT have to do it with him, in fact a trained therapist would have a lot to say about whether you should be in that mess at all

YOU need to work through all of this giant mess that has reared its head from your BF's hidden past...and he should NOT be trying to influence you while you are asking for space to do so.

lightseeker

Pink,

One of the things that has helped me is something called book-ending. It means that I check in with those in recovery before I step out into situations that might possibly derail my own growth and best interests. And then I promise (and make good on that promise) to check in afterwards. It helps with accountability ....and it lets you take a look at the situation through other eyes when you are in the midst of it if you know that you will be accounting for it.

There is a term that describes your last few sentences and it's called "stinkin thinkin". I am so guilty of doing the very same thing. There sounds like there is some degree of fear in what you wrote. When I feel those fears I recognize that there is some fear on my part of abandonment. What do I need to heal in order to move forward?

I know that the two of you miss one another - heck....I miss my ex husband who almost killed me twice....yes....the man that so many other people is such a nice guy. I know that I have to play the tape out and not stay stuck in this feelings.

My ex use to tell me that if I wasn't going to be with him that that would force him to go out with other people. I finally figured out that if someone would find someone else while I took the time that I needed for myself then they really weren't mine anyway.

All I know is that it takes a long time to turn your life around and change core behaviors. There is nothing wrong with taking time to figure out what is best for you.

Let us know how it goes...

Ann

He may be a dangerous man, he may be a murderer. The most dangerous time in any relationship is when a woman tries to leave it.

That's not me being harsh, that's the facts of how it is.

If you meet with him you put yourself in danger again. I'm not telling you what to do, I'm suggesting you think about it and stay safe.

I wish you the best.

dollydo

It is his choice not to tell his family the entire truth. You are not the ONLY person in the world who can help him, there are millions of therapists and doctors who can help him.

He is manipulating you, he knows your weaknesses, addicts have a built in radar to find
the weakest codependent in the bunch and how to play them.

I would hope that you would rethink your decision to see him, you are playing with fire and you will get burned, be careful, think with your head not your heart.

I too, wish you the best.

lightseeker

wow....cynical one.... you just described my ex husband to a t..... Never heard it put so well in so few words.