He says he's going to the clinic to get help
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He says he's going to the clinic to get help
my long distance abf and I almost broke up (my choice) about a week ago. I told him he must get himself help to quit drinking or I'm leaving him. He said the idea of losing me to alcohol, that he would be choosing alcohol over me, hit home and he really wants to quit now. He said if he has any bad symptoms that he'd go to the doctor. He has only had a few glasses of wine (small glasses), at least this is what he's told me. He said he's going through withdraws like shakes and nausea. But then he called last night saying he was hearing voices and it scared him. So I immediately told him to go to the hospital. I've had drug induced psychosis where I primarily heard voices so I know the drill. He promised that he'd go to the clinic in the morning to get checked out.
I talked to him early this morning and he said he hasn't heard anything since we last talked but he was still going to the doctor. He said he'd call at 9 to see if he can get an appointment and if not he'll do a walk in. They have a substance abuse treatment program at the clinic so I'm sure they'll be able to do a lot for him. I told him not to be surprised if they refer him to the hospital and to GO if they do that. He said okay.
So, please everyone, keep your fingers crossed. This is huge if he actually goes!
I talked to him early this morning and he said he hasn't heard anything since we last talked but he was still going to the doctor. He said he'd call at 9 to see if he can get an appointment and if not he'll do a walk in. They have a substance abuse treatment program at the clinic so I'm sure they'll be able to do a lot for him. I told him not to be surprised if they refer him to the hospital and to GO if they do that. He said okay.
So, please everyone, keep your fingers crossed. This is huge if he actually goes!
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Having just lost my husband, who was trying to sober up at home while I was a 1000 miles away, and who died while doing so, your post brought back so much for me.
I urged my husband over the phone repeatedly to go to the doctor or a clinic or a detox center or whatever he could get to - by ambulance, by cab, by calling a neighbour or by driving himself - and, he also said he would if he needed to ... but, in the end, he didn't, and passed away alone at home.
Had I to do it over again, I would never have left him to make his own decision about that - I would have called an ambulance for him, even though I didn't realize quite how serious it was. I should have taken the chance on being wrong or looking a fool (or having him furious with me) rather than just leave him to make his own decision at that time. He sounded sort of 'ok' on the phone (rational) but at 3 days in to his detox, saying he thought he actually was beginning to feel better, he died of an internal hemorrhage. I am sure he didn't know how serious it was himself - or, once he realized, he was unable to make that call himself. He had never had a really bad experience like that before when detoxing (but it is true that each time one detoxes, it can get progressively more dangerous so please consider that). He had no way, nor did I (especially since I was so far away and he minimized things to a great extent) that this time would be different. I kept trying to get him to make that first move - and that one time, the last time ... I was probably wrong. I might have been able to help him save himself - that might have been a 'living bottom' for him - who knows ... all I know is that if I had made the decision, just that once, to call the ambulance for him the night before he died, he might have been here still to make his own decision about whether he was ready to quit drinking forever. No one can know now though .. he is gone.
Calling the ambulance for him, while some may think that is the wrong move, is, I think, in retrospect what I should have done. I don't feel guilty because I didn't know and wasn't there, but, I am sad he is gone and miss the dreams and possibilities very much - and I do think, had things been right and I had understood how serious it was, or he had, he would be alive today. It would have been more ($) expensive perhaps to keep him alive but losing him this way was something that is worse than that potential medical cost. I don't believe, under those circumstances, that, had I called an ambulance for him, that it would have been 'codie' behavioiur.
You will make your own decision for your own reasons, however, I would never advise anyone to try to detox alone at home ... ever .. and probably especially if they have been ok detoxing previously.
I urged my husband over the phone repeatedly to go to the doctor or a clinic or a detox center or whatever he could get to - by ambulance, by cab, by calling a neighbour or by driving himself - and, he also said he would if he needed to ... but, in the end, he didn't, and passed away alone at home.
Had I to do it over again, I would never have left him to make his own decision about that - I would have called an ambulance for him, even though I didn't realize quite how serious it was. I should have taken the chance on being wrong or looking a fool (or having him furious with me) rather than just leave him to make his own decision at that time. He sounded sort of 'ok' on the phone (rational) but at 3 days in to his detox, saying he thought he actually was beginning to feel better, he died of an internal hemorrhage. I am sure he didn't know how serious it was himself - or, once he realized, he was unable to make that call himself. He had never had a really bad experience like that before when detoxing (but it is true that each time one detoxes, it can get progressively more dangerous so please consider that). He had no way, nor did I (especially since I was so far away and he minimized things to a great extent) that this time would be different. I kept trying to get him to make that first move - and that one time, the last time ... I was probably wrong. I might have been able to help him save himself - that might have been a 'living bottom' for him - who knows ... all I know is that if I had made the decision, just that once, to call the ambulance for him the night before he died, he might have been here still to make his own decision about whether he was ready to quit drinking forever. No one can know now though .. he is gone.
Calling the ambulance for him, while some may think that is the wrong move, is, I think, in retrospect what I should have done. I don't feel guilty because I didn't know and wasn't there, but, I am sad he is gone and miss the dreams and possibilities very much - and I do think, had things been right and I had understood how serious it was, or he had, he would be alive today. It would have been more ($) expensive perhaps to keep him alive but losing him this way was something that is worse than that potential medical cost. I don't believe, under those circumstances, that, had I called an ambulance for him, that it would have been 'codie' behavioiur.
You will make your own decision for your own reasons, however, I would never advise anyone to try to detox alone at home ... ever .. and probably especially if they have been ok detoxing previously.
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I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. I almost called an ambulance for him but didn't because I don't know how either one of us would have handled it. He went to the doctor and was told he's okay, that he's just going through withdraws. They also referred him to the hospital but he just refuses to go because "its too expensive". He doesn't hear the voices anymore but he has other unsettling symptoms.... This is just really hard for me. At what point do I believe he's getting the best care? He makes so many excuses that its hard to figure out what's real and what isn't. He says he's going to take medicine and go to therapy but I don't think he's done it yet. *sigh* I just want him better!!
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Originally Posted by choublak 
And the sad part is, that is exactly what the loved ones of A's are "supposed" to do.
The doctor has seen him and given a professional medical opinion so I think that should offer you some assurance at this point. That is such a difficult situation to be in. I'm not sure how I would handle it to be honest.
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My deep sympathy to you, Lifewithouthim. Even in rehabs, even in hospitals, the most skilled professionals make the best choices they know to make for alcoholics, but the outcome still is out of their control--life and death are ultimately out of our control--and they too struggle with regrets when events take a turn they never anticipated. If we intervene too much and the alcoholic commits suicide, we may tell ourselves we put on too much pressure. If we step back and the alcoholic dies, we may tell ourselves we missed an opportunity to save him.
Alcoholism is a disease of chaos. And just as in a raging storm at sea, it is impossible to control the chaos. Everything moves erratically, there are sudden upsets and sudden turns, and we really have no control in this storm of addiction. Things are never clear, they never happen in any predictable way, and the boat keeps sinking.
Anwa, for your own spiritual health, try to remember your abf is in a major storm at sea, and the outcome is out of your control. Try to avoid any responsibility for whether he lives or dies. God will decide. Our challenge is to accept God's will in every situation.
We are powerless over alcohol and the destiny of any alcoholic.
Alcoholism is a disease of chaos. And just as in a raging storm at sea, it is impossible to control the chaos. Everything moves erratically, there are sudden upsets and sudden turns, and we really have no control in this storm of addiction. Things are never clear, they never happen in any predictable way, and the boat keeps sinking.
Anwa, for your own spiritual health, try to remember your abf is in a major storm at sea, and the outcome is out of your control. Try to avoid any responsibility for whether he lives or dies. God will decide. Our challenge is to accept God's will in every situation.
We are powerless over alcohol and the destiny of any alcoholic.
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I have a feeling there's going to be times where he relapses then I have to threaten to leave again for him to stop drinking again and go through the battle of what works and what doesn't. He thinks he can do this on his own and is hoping he'll be able to drink a glass of wine or a beer with dinner. It frustrates me when he says this because I feel he's not ready to quit and doesn't realize that isn't okay to just have 1 glass of wine. Still, he's saying he's having just one glass. I don't even know if I believe its just one glass, either. At what point do I throw up my hands? I have no clue. I love him dearly and I feel we are meant for each other. I don't want to give that up just because he has a relapse, you know what I mean?
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Well that makes me really depressed because it's not something I accept and can deal with and I've told him that. Everyone I talk to about this seems to be saying to break up with him and move on but I just don't know how I can do that. I don't want to keep giving him chances and still be at this years from now but I don't want to lose him and cut him out of my life. I will feel like I abandoned a good person. And I feel like I can't abandon him because he's been abandoned too many times in his life. He's made a commitment to be with me and he's really happy with his choice. I have never met someone like him before and if I leave I don't know if I ever will again. My fear is that I will have left the one for me! It makes me cry just thinking about it...
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Let me give you a bit of an insight into how an active alcoholic thinks while
in the throes of addiction.
In 1974 I was hospitalized with a bleeding ulcer. I had strict instructions
from the doctor upon my release from the hospital. No drinking. However,
he did say, that I could have a 'glass of wine' before dinner to 'relax' me
after the 'stresses' from all day on the job.
Ok, so I could have a glass of wine. I sure did. My glass was an 18oz iced
tea glass. to me that was a glass of wine.
He also said that I could and should drink lots of milk as it would help to
'coat' my stomach and keep the acids from eating further into the ulcers
and would help the ulcers to heal. A friend of mine mother, who I know
today was an alcoholic, told me that I could put my Scotch in milk and then
I could still have my scotch as the mild would coat my stomach. I did,
and in my mind I was following his 'no drinking' edict. I was having my
ONE glass of wine to 'relax' and I was drinking my milk at night.
Bizarre right???? Yep. But that was my altered reality caused by my addiction.
And I was just the 'run of the mill' alcoholic.
Calling an ambulance, not calling an ambulance doesn't matter. The A has the
option and many have of refusing help from the paramedics and the ambulance
goes away.
I don't believe anyone posting here, myself and others like me, will ever under-
stand the alcoholic thinking. He!! I am an alcoholic and I do not understand
it, rofl What I do understand is I cannot help an alcoholic until they sincerely
and honestly ask for help and willing to do whatever is suggested. And even
when they are sincere and want help all I can do is share what I did and others
have done to combat their alcoholism, ie give the A some positive choices, and
it is still up to the A to decide and choose, or decide not to choose and keeps
drinking.
(((((anwa))))) I understand how much YOU want him to find sobriety. However,
no matter how much you love him, you know you cannot help or fix him. What
you can do is work on you. Go to Alanon, don't go to Alanon. Get a counselor,
don't get a counselor. Post on SR, don't post on SR. You also have choices.
I know this has been said on many threads on here before and maybe it is time
to say it again ............................. the best way to 'help' your A is:
WORK THE PROGRAM YOU WOULD LIKE YOLUR A TO WORK AND LIVE. Show
your A by example how to live a rich fulfilled life and be a compassionate caring
person.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
in the throes of addiction.
In 1974 I was hospitalized with a bleeding ulcer. I had strict instructions
from the doctor upon my release from the hospital. No drinking. However,
he did say, that I could have a 'glass of wine' before dinner to 'relax' me
after the 'stresses' from all day on the job.
Ok, so I could have a glass of wine. I sure did. My glass was an 18oz iced
tea glass. to me that was a glass of wine.
He also said that I could and should drink lots of milk as it would help to
'coat' my stomach and keep the acids from eating further into the ulcers
and would help the ulcers to heal. A friend of mine mother, who I know
today was an alcoholic, told me that I could put my Scotch in milk and then
I could still have my scotch as the mild would coat my stomach. I did,
and in my mind I was following his 'no drinking' edict. I was having my
ONE glass of wine to 'relax' and I was drinking my milk at night.
Bizarre right???? Yep. But that was my altered reality caused by my addiction.
And I was just the 'run of the mill' alcoholic.
Calling an ambulance, not calling an ambulance doesn't matter. The A has the
option and many have of refusing help from the paramedics and the ambulance
goes away.
I don't believe anyone posting here, myself and others like me, will ever under-
stand the alcoholic thinking. He!! I am an alcoholic and I do not understand
it, rofl What I do understand is I cannot help an alcoholic until they sincerely
and honestly ask for help and willing to do whatever is suggested. And even
when they are sincere and want help all I can do is share what I did and others
have done to combat their alcoholism, ie give the A some positive choices, and
it is still up to the A to decide and choose, or decide not to choose and keeps
drinking.
(((((anwa))))) I understand how much YOU want him to find sobriety. However,
no matter how much you love him, you know you cannot help or fix him. What
you can do is work on you. Go to Alanon, don't go to Alanon. Get a counselor,
don't get a counselor. Post on SR, don't post on SR. You also have choices.
I know this has been said on many threads on here before and maybe it is time
to say it again ............................. the best way to 'help' your A is:
WORK THE PROGRAM YOU WOULD LIKE YOLUR A TO WORK AND LIVE. Show
your A by example how to live a rich fulfilled life and be a compassionate caring
person.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by anwa
Well that makes me really depressed because it's not something I accept and can deal with and I've told him that.
Originally Posted by anwa
I have never met someone like him before and if I leave I don't know if I ever will again. My fear is that I will have left the one for me! It makes me cry just thinking about it...
Interesting dichotomy, isn't it? There was a time that I believed the same things. Really, though, if someone is right for you, shouldn't they be right for you just as they are? Isn't wanting to change him a contradiction to him being "the one?" It may be that you are more in love with the fantasy of who you want him to be than who he actually is.
Read around on this site. Many of us have been victims of our own magical thinking.
L
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Location: California
Posts: 51
Well, I know what his glasses are.. they aren't very much more than what a glass of wine technically is (not sure of the ounce). But, yeah, I suspect 1 glass actually means 2 kinda thing. He hasn't drank hard alcohol in over 6 months. He switched to wine. He told me he wasn't drinking then he started back up again. "But it's only 1 or 2 glasses." And, yeah, its impossible to tell what's going on long distance. I can't tell if he's been drinking or not because before I moved away I could only tell by seeing him drink and the smell of alcohol on him.
LaTeeDa, You might be right but that doesn't mean I like your response :P
LaTeeDa, You might be right but that doesn't mean I like your response :P
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Location: California
Posts: 51
I would go to al-anon but I can't make it to the meetings. So I come here... he knows I come here and to another site. I also try to make my life better by going to the doctor and therapy. I have major depression and general anxiety disorders. I'd like it if he did the same which I have been hoping would "rub off" on him. He has recently said he'll take meds and go to therapy but I'm not sure if its going to happen easily. Oh, and I don't drink or do drugs...
Last edited by anwa; 06-15-2012 at 11:17 AM. Reason: don't drink
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
Excuses to not go to Alanon...
..are excuses to not go to Alanon. No more, no less.
You are full of excuses for everything, and you have accepted his behavior and you do accept his behavior because you aren't changing anything.
Be brave. Grow. Take responsiblity for your life NOT HIS.
Keep an open mind, go to an Alanon meeting, and seek counseling as well. What do you have to lose? Really. What do you have to lose?
If it's because you are scared, then do it scared!
Stop complaining and making excuses. Start doing something to improve your life.
Cyranoak
You are full of excuses for everything, and you have accepted his behavior and you do accept his behavior because you aren't changing anything.
Be brave. Grow. Take responsiblity for your life NOT HIS.
Keep an open mind, go to an Alanon meeting, and seek counseling as well. What do you have to lose? Really. What do you have to lose?
If it's because you are scared, then do it scared!
Stop complaining and making excuses. Start doing something to improve your life.
Cyranoak
Originally Posted by anwa
I would go to al-anon but I can't make it to the meetings. So I come here... he knows I come here and to another site. I also try to make my life better by going to the doctor and therapy. I have major depression and general anxiety disorders. I'd like it if he did the same which I have been hoping would "rub off" on him. He has recently said he'll take meds and go to therapy but I'm not sure if its going to happen easily. Oh, and I don't drink or do drugs...
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: new moon road
Posts: 1,545
Anwa,
You are one of us and we, too, were confused and vulnerable and worried when we became involved with alcoholics and drug addicts. It is a very confusing world to be in because addiction is based on false appearances, on pretense, and we don't know what the truth is about someone we meet who is an addict until we have many experiences with that person that accumulate over time to give us a clear picture.
You are doing the right thing: seeking information, being honest about your confusion rather than trying to pretend you aren't confused or worried, seeing a therapist, seeing a doctor for your depression/anxiety (which is very important--my son also has treatment for that). Really, so many people don't have the courage to take all the steps you are taking.
Our hope--my hope--is that you will feel safe enough to post here when you are worried or confused and I hope we can share what we have learned over time and experience so you can at least have some information to help guide your choices.
I was a MESS when I became involved with my first alcoholic many years ago, and I look back at all the ways I tried to manage what was an unmanageable man. I was so confused, so desperate, and I look back on that time now and I have to work hard not to feel shame for making so many mistakes.
And that was not the end of my experiences with men with addiction. And you'd think I would have learned everything the first time and would make no mistakes in the future. But addiction has an energy--a chaotic energy-- which pervades us, and when we are in its presence, we can so easily again become confused, self-doubting, easily lied to and manipulated, and not even know it's happening.
This is why connecting with other people in recovery helps us. We read or listen to other people's stories to help us think better in what is usually an addictive fog.
You are important and your health--physical, emotional, mental--must always come first. Should your abf or anyone put you at risk, you must protect yourself. We cannot risk illness of any kind for someone who is having a love affair with a drug.
So do take very good care of you. We are on your side!
You are one of us and we, too, were confused and vulnerable and worried when we became involved with alcoholics and drug addicts. It is a very confusing world to be in because addiction is based on false appearances, on pretense, and we don't know what the truth is about someone we meet who is an addict until we have many experiences with that person that accumulate over time to give us a clear picture.
You are doing the right thing: seeking information, being honest about your confusion rather than trying to pretend you aren't confused or worried, seeing a therapist, seeing a doctor for your depression/anxiety (which is very important--my son also has treatment for that). Really, so many people don't have the courage to take all the steps you are taking.
Our hope--my hope--is that you will feel safe enough to post here when you are worried or confused and I hope we can share what we have learned over time and experience so you can at least have some information to help guide your choices.
I was a MESS when I became involved with my first alcoholic many years ago, and I look back at all the ways I tried to manage what was an unmanageable man. I was so confused, so desperate, and I look back on that time now and I have to work hard not to feel shame for making so many mistakes.
And that was not the end of my experiences with men with addiction. And you'd think I would have learned everything the first time and would make no mistakes in the future. But addiction has an energy--a chaotic energy-- which pervades us, and when we are in its presence, we can so easily again become confused, self-doubting, easily lied to and manipulated, and not even know it's happening.
This is why connecting with other people in recovery helps us. We read or listen to other people's stories to help us think better in what is usually an addictive fog.
You are important and your health--physical, emotional, mental--must always come first. Should your abf or anyone put you at risk, you must protect yourself. We cannot risk illness of any kind for someone who is having a love affair with a drug.
So do take very good care of you. We are on your side!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Location: California
Posts: 51
My "excuse" for not going to al-anon is I have panic attacks in the parking lot of any support group where I don't know anyone. No one will go to al-anon with me so I can't make it to the meetings. So the next best thing I've found is coming here to read posts from people.
Thanks EnglishGarden for your support. I come here and to another site not related to alcohol to get support in my life. Unfortunately, I have to go to work so I can't post more right now which sucks because there's so much going on in my head and I'm having a hard time.
Thanks EnglishGarden for your support. I come here and to another site not related to alcohol to get support in my life. Unfortunately, I have to go to work so I can't post more right now which sucks because there's so much going on in my head and I'm having a hard time.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
Anwa, I don't go to al-anon, but I read SR almost every day and do weekly therapy sessions one-on-one and have gotten a lot of clarity.
In my experience, you'll find that you have to do *something* to help yourself. If not Al-Anon, fine. But do something.
In my experience, you'll find that you have to do *something* to help yourself. If not Al-Anon, fine. But do something.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
My "excuse" for not going to al-anon is I have panic attacks in the parking lot of any support group where I don't know anyone.
take you to your first meeting. Explain your panic attacks about going alone.
Alanon, especially in CA seem to follow the AA procedure of doing '12 Step Calls'.
So it wouldn't hurt to ask.
That just might get you started, and after a meeting or two you will have met
some others and gotten some phone numbers. Also, when I still lived in the
L.A. area I know that there were Alanon meetings at all times of the day and
night.
Also, remember you can post here at ANY TIME 24/7 and will get response.
We do care!!
Love and hugs,
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2012
Location: California
Posts: 51
What do you mean by 12 step calls? I kind of have a fear of calling people, too. heh.. I know I'm difficult.
Florence, I go to weekly therapy and talk deeply with my therapist. I do research about my condition online. I take medications and have been for years. I also come here and to another site. I try whatever the doctors tell me to try. I have treatment resistant depression and I'm really hard on myself. I'm really trying to get better, honest.
Florence, I go to weekly therapy and talk deeply with my therapist. I do research about my condition online. I take medications and have been for years. I also come here and to another site. I try whatever the doctors tell me to try. I have treatment resistant depression and I'm really hard on myself. I'm really trying to get better, honest.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
What do you mean by 12 step calls?
live a bit differently.
Step 12 says:
"Having had a s piritual aw awakening as the result
of these steps, we tried to carry this message to
others, and to practice the se p rincip les in all
our affairs."
As part of those instructions, 'We' continue to carry the 'message' of
recovery by helping 'new' folks that have called and asked for help.
That can involve going to the new person's home, sharing a bit of
our Experience, Strength , and Hope (ES&H) and taking them to some
meetings , to help them feel a bit more comfortable going to meetings.
Very simple, very basic. In the process new friends are found and
made, friends who have been where we are at the moment.
It won't hurt to give it a try. Try at least 6 meetings to get a 'feel' for
the folks and the meetings. If it is not for you, there is always one on
one counseling with a counselor. Preferably one who specializes in
'addictions', as they will be able to help with the co dependence issues
that come up in dealing with an A.
Hope that helps.
Love and hugs,
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