Codie trolling
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 602
Codie trolling
With respect, can I share something difficult, because this happens so often:
I don't think it's right that active alcoholics or newly-recovered alcoholics go out of their way to target this particular community of people (family and friends) and demand insight/sympathy/assistance. I'm not casting asparagus at anyone in particular, but pointing out a trend that's caused me to pull away from the site in the last few weeks.
To be clear, I'm not talking about people dealing with alcoholic loved ones who also happen to struggle with addiction themselves.
I'm talking about the people who offer nothing to this particular community but randomly burst in with peremptory demands. "Tell me how I can get my wife to stop being so upset." "How can I get my husband to help me stop drinking?" "Help me explain this disease to my siblings."
WTH? It's as if they're saying, "I know all of you are at the end of your rope dealing with alcoholic loved ones--so now can you all stop whatever you were talking about and help ME."
I don't know if there's a way, feasibly, to curb it. If defamatory remarks or bad words are disallowed surely we can have a policy against this sort of--what would you call it--codie trolling? I respect that it's a decision for the mods but I hope my bringing it up is all right. For my part I won't be responding to them any longer.
I don't think it's right that active alcoholics or newly-recovered alcoholics go out of their way to target this particular community of people (family and friends) and demand insight/sympathy/assistance. I'm not casting asparagus at anyone in particular, but pointing out a trend that's caused me to pull away from the site in the last few weeks.
To be clear, I'm not talking about people dealing with alcoholic loved ones who also happen to struggle with addiction themselves.
I'm talking about the people who offer nothing to this particular community but randomly burst in with peremptory demands. "Tell me how I can get my wife to stop being so upset." "How can I get my husband to help me stop drinking?" "Help me explain this disease to my siblings."
WTH? It's as if they're saying, "I know all of you are at the end of your rope dealing with alcoholic loved ones--so now can you all stop whatever you were talking about and help ME."
I don't know if there's a way, feasibly, to curb it. If defamatory remarks or bad words are disallowed surely we can have a policy against this sort of--what would you call it--codie trolling? I respect that it's a decision for the mods but I hope my bringing it up is all right. For my part I won't be responding to them any longer.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,288
Well, there's always new people here at different stages of their particular struggle. Some of us have read the same theme over and over and over.
If I don't feel I can contribute or am not in the mood to read yet another "such and such" thread, I just skip it.
If I don't feel I can contribute or am not in the mood to read yet another "such and such" thread, I just skip it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 602
Quite, but there are standards. It's one thing to have another "Is my husband an alcoholic?" thread--that's a new member making a connection here. But a "I just got out of rehab and now you ladies have to tell me how to deal with my wife" sort of thread (a real example btw)--how does that contribute to this community?
On a particular writing forum I'm on, for example, we had to make the distinction between a regular member sharing a success (e.g., sharing that they just sold a short story) and shameless self-promotion (i.e., people who don't contribute much except for links about their own books or press coverage). At first the distinction was hard to make but once we discussed it we were able to set the boundary.
On a particular writing forum I'm on, for example, we had to make the distinction between a regular member sharing a success (e.g., sharing that they just sold a short story) and shameless self-promotion (i.e., people who don't contribute much except for links about their own books or press coverage). At first the distinction was hard to make but once we discussed it we were able to set the boundary.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
i am glad to see you arent as sick as some of people that come on here, and since you arent as sick as some that come on here, i hope you can put your energy into sharing your experience to help others.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 433
Yeah, I agree with the point that this isn't really the forum for addicts to come for advice on how to mend relationships with their loved ones. It seems that only other addicts who have a good amount of recovery behind them would be the right people to give advice on that. And they are on the other boards. 
I mean, those of us who were in relationships with addicts, all along, for many years, made our needs clear to our addicts and told them what we needed from them. And they didn't listen, and we are wounded and exhausted and depleted. So when I come to this forum, I really have nothing to give to an addict anymore. I am here for me, and for the other folks who have been hurt by the addicts in their lives.
If an addict in recovery truly cannot see/hear/know how to meet their partner's needs in spite of being told of them over and over, then I believe that they should go to therapy (a psychologist or psychotherapist) as well as to AA to learn how to be a good partner. I think that many addicts never gained mature relationship skills that the rest of us did while we were out there facing life, dealing with things instead of running from them. It is very hard to learn these skills without help, in fact, it's probably impossible.
I mean, those of us who were in relationships with addicts, all along, for many years, made our needs clear to our addicts and told them what we needed from them. And they didn't listen, and we are wounded and exhausted and depleted. So when I come to this forum, I really have nothing to give to an addict anymore. I am here for me, and for the other folks who have been hurt by the addicts in their lives.
If an addict in recovery truly cannot see/hear/know how to meet their partner's needs in spite of being told of them over and over, then I believe that they should go to therapy (a psychologist or psychotherapist) as well as to AA to learn how to be a good partner. I think that many addicts never gained mature relationship skills that the rest of us did while we were out there facing life, dealing with things instead of running from them. It is very hard to learn these skills without help, in fact, it's probably impossible.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 602
Yes! I forgot to mention the newly-recovered alcoholics who hurry in to give the "friends-and-family" crowd advice on how to behave.
Is it not even possible to discuss this without the hijacks? I'm not a newcomer to recovery so I don't go messing around on the new to recovery board, do I? Can there be a bit of respect for space in return?
Is it not even possible to discuss this without the hijacks? I'm not a newcomer to recovery so I don't go messing around on the new to recovery board, do I? Can there be a bit of respect for space in return?
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,641
It is a public forum.
I just go to The "New posts" section automatically.
I go by the little blurb of each comment and don't always look at the forum, ie "friends and family". I then get caught up in the human stories and experiences.
When I read some of the comments, I get hurt. I am human. Despite what is often posted, alcoholics do have feelings.
Mostly though, I read and agree with the advice given and might comment myself if it is appropriate.
A lot of alcoholics and addicts would have had experience as family and friends also.
A lot of alcoholics and addicts did not affect others as much as some of the qualifiers described here.
I am an alcoholic, and daughter and sister and ex-girlfriend of an alcoholic.
I grew up in an abusive home with a codependent mother.
I follow my heart and read and comment where I feel comfortable.
I do not feel comfortable posting this, but I will. This time.
I wish for peace and serenity to all here.
Anne
I just go to The "New posts" section automatically.
I go by the little blurb of each comment and don't always look at the forum, ie "friends and family". I then get caught up in the human stories and experiences.
When I read some of the comments, I get hurt. I am human. Despite what is often posted, alcoholics do have feelings.
Mostly though, I read and agree with the advice given and might comment myself if it is appropriate.
A lot of alcoholics and addicts would have had experience as family and friends also.
A lot of alcoholics and addicts did not affect others as much as some of the qualifiers described here.
I am an alcoholic, and daughter and sister and ex-girlfriend of an alcoholic.
I grew up in an abusive home with a codependent mother.
I follow my heart and read and comment where I feel comfortable.
I do not feel comfortable posting this, but I will. This time.
I wish for peace and serenity to all here.
Anne
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Sooner State
Posts: 1,725
I play a part in this and I apologize. I look at "new posts" I really dont pay attention to who's sandbox it is. I got in trouble for using an AA quote "take what you need and leave the rest" and was chastized for it. Yet...I have seen it posted in Friends & Family too. I will pay more attention.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,754
There have been posts in this section made by people in recovery from addiction that have been so heartfelt and so helpful to me, and I am so grateful.
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, there is wisdom here and validation and caring that most of us would never get from our own addcits.
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, there is wisdom here and validation and caring that most of us would never get from our own addcits.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 220
I guess I don't have a problem with alcoholics/addicts asking what they can do to mend their relationships, etc... why not come to the people who might know that answer?? I see great benefit in meetings where alcoholics are present - there is much knowledge to be gained in trying to see things from each others perspectives.
I wish my AH would sit in a room with Al-Anoners and really try to understand the codependent perspective. I am as baffling to him as he is to me.
Just my 2 cents.
I wish my AH would sit in a room with Al-Anoners and really try to understand the codependent perspective. I am as baffling to him as he is to me.
Just my 2 cents.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 326
Akrasia, I understand what you are saying.
We deal with the alcoholics/addicts every day, we can't avoid them. Even if we errect strong boundaries or no contacts with the alcoholics in our lives: our spouses, friends, parents or children, we still can't escape anywhere. They are at work, our bosses, clients, colleagues making our jobs harder; our neighbors, who have screaming fits we have to hear or who bang on our doors at 6 am to ask if we've seen their car; the guy on the street who follows us across the parking lot aggressively spilling his verbal alcoholic filth on us; the drunk driver to rear ends us--or worse; the drunken idiot in the theater seat behind us.
It would be lovely, LOVELY, to have one place in the world where alcoholics or addicts are banned. And you'd think Al-anon would be that place. But apparently it's not.
I understand that many, many people with addiction problems come from families or attract alcoholics into their lives and have codenpendency problems. The benefit from the site just as much as those of us who have never been substance abusers. I'll be the first to say that many of the long-term RA's who post here have wonderful advice and insight. I actually have favorites among them I always make a point of reading, I learn from them.
But I understand what you mean about the newly recovered/sober or the ones who don't really have a handle on it. There's a certain self absorption, pushiness, and neediness in those people that are detrimental to wobbly recovering codies. And they often try to shame or control or stomp on codie discussions that center on NORMAL feelings never-abusing codies have towards their substance abusers like disgust, blame, contempt, or anger and self-pity. They try to get the support from codies still wobbly in their recovery that they longed for in their recoveries, sometimes suggesting accepting unacceptable alcoholic behavior.
It's easy to avoid their threads, but they will come on to your threads and derail it. And codies get intimidated or overwhelmed by the alkie who really doesn't have a handle on the concepts being discussed. It's part of the codie problem to 'give in' to the alkie and make nice-nice with them. Alkies know exactly how to manipulate and push codie buttons, and the newer or recovery-uncertain ones do it here all the time.
The problem is, I don't think anything can be done about it. It would require someone monitoring all the posts, before they post, and most people don't have that time.
So even though I don't think anything can really be done about it, I understand what you mean and don't think there's anything wrong in your observation or your desire for some place that is alcoholic free.
We deal with the alcoholics/addicts every day, we can't avoid them. Even if we errect strong boundaries or no contacts with the alcoholics in our lives: our spouses, friends, parents or children, we still can't escape anywhere. They are at work, our bosses, clients, colleagues making our jobs harder; our neighbors, who have screaming fits we have to hear or who bang on our doors at 6 am to ask if we've seen their car; the guy on the street who follows us across the parking lot aggressively spilling his verbal alcoholic filth on us; the drunk driver to rear ends us--or worse; the drunken idiot in the theater seat behind us.
It would be lovely, LOVELY, to have one place in the world where alcoholics or addicts are banned. And you'd think Al-anon would be that place. But apparently it's not.
I understand that many, many people with addiction problems come from families or attract alcoholics into their lives and have codenpendency problems. The benefit from the site just as much as those of us who have never been substance abusers. I'll be the first to say that many of the long-term RA's who post here have wonderful advice and insight. I actually have favorites among them I always make a point of reading, I learn from them.
But I understand what you mean about the newly recovered/sober or the ones who don't really have a handle on it. There's a certain self absorption, pushiness, and neediness in those people that are detrimental to wobbly recovering codies. And they often try to shame or control or stomp on codie discussions that center on NORMAL feelings never-abusing codies have towards their substance abusers like disgust, blame, contempt, or anger and self-pity. They try to get the support from codies still wobbly in their recovery that they longed for in their recoveries, sometimes suggesting accepting unacceptable alcoholic behavior.
It's easy to avoid their threads, but they will come on to your threads and derail it. And codies get intimidated or overwhelmed by the alkie who really doesn't have a handle on the concepts being discussed. It's part of the codie problem to 'give in' to the alkie and make nice-nice with them. Alkies know exactly how to manipulate and push codie buttons, and the newer or recovery-uncertain ones do it here all the time.
The problem is, I don't think anything can be done about it. It would require someone monitoring all the posts, before they post, and most people don't have that time.
So even though I don't think anything can really be done about it, I understand what you mean and don't think there's anything wrong in your observation or your desire for some place that is alcoholic free.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: North America
Posts: 1,628
"for codies our DOC is the A"
I would point out that beyond the chaos caused by alcohol in the family (social) system, many of the issues described on the friends and family forum relate to emeshment and boundry issues; issues, that is, which transend alcohol use. An extream hostilty that is sometimes aimed at "those alcoholics," as a group, is matched by efforts at ingroup exclusivity (the use of specialized abbreviations for example) and inaccurate assumptions about similarities among percieved peers--a form of all-or-nothing thinking that can encourage emotional extreams.
These are issues that can coexsist with, but are different from, dealing with alcohol or drug use/abuse by loved ones.
I would point out that beyond the chaos caused by alcohol in the family (social) system, many of the issues described on the friends and family forum relate to emeshment and boundry issues; issues, that is, which transend alcohol use. An extream hostilty that is sometimes aimed at "those alcoholics," as a group, is matched by efforts at ingroup exclusivity (the use of specialized abbreviations for example) and inaccurate assumptions about similarities among percieved peers--a form of all-or-nothing thinking that can encourage emotional extreams.
These are issues that can coexsist with, but are different from, dealing with alcohol or drug use/abuse by loved ones.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
There are many sections and forums on this site, so that any one of us can find the one where we fit best to give help or receive it. I agree that it's often not good news when a codie goes up to the alcohol or substance forums and complains there, and it is equally uncomfortable when someone from those forums come here and tell us what we "should" do. It's not against the rules, but it is somewhat disrespectful I think and personally I discourage it. Sometimes the visits are helpful, but often they upset the forums and members.
This does not include our many double winners here who practice both programs and post on more than one forum, because they respect where they are and which program they are working and some of our most helpful members here have been double winners.
The best way to handle this is to not bother reading threads that upset you, or to put members who annoy you on "ignore" so you can no longer read what they post.
There are dozens of threads here to post on, it's okay to pass one by because it makes you squirm. I do exactly that...more often than you think, lol.
This does not include our many double winners here who practice both programs and post on more than one forum, because they respect where they are and which program they are working and some of our most helpful members here have been double winners.
The best way to handle this is to not bother reading threads that upset you, or to put members who annoy you on "ignore" so you can no longer read what they post.
There are dozens of threads here to post on, it's okay to pass one by because it makes you squirm. I do exactly that...more often than you think, lol.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Thank you everybody for your comments. Opinions on various sides of the "issue" have been made. Anything further is repetitive and will just result in a flame war. I am closing this thread so that everybody can go back to working on their own recovery.
Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery
Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery
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