Raven4136

Hi there,

I'm Raven. My back-story can be found in the intro section but in a nut-shell I am an opiate addict. I was using rx pills up until last week that were originally given to me for pain management. Unfortunately I am an addict and began to abuse them and my habit spiraled out of control. At the end I was using 25-30 15mg oxy's (snorting and orally) on top of 60mg of extended release morphine 3 times a day...with some dilauded in between. All given to me by a doctor. Not an excuse at all but it does make me shake my head a little now that I'm on the other side.

Anyhow, I came clean last weekend to my husband and to my family that I needed help. I was already scheduled to undergo a suboxone induction per my request to replace the pain pills and try to slowly wean off of that instead. My doctor felt as if that would be the best plan when I approached him about quitting pills. At that point nobody knew I had a problem with them..that I was misusing them..just that I had been taking them for pain and wanted off. But I needed help and I wanted my family to support me in that so I came clean which was very embarassing and difficult.

We moved forward with a detox plan - I ran out of oxy early last week and my doctor would not give me anymore to get through to the original scheduled "detox" day (which is understandable after I told her what I had been doing.) So it's been 6 days without oxy and 4 without the morphine.

The detox was pretty miserable but I made it through. I wanted to do it at home so I could still use my xanax (I have never abused my benzo's...use them very sparingly...don't like them) and my ambien to sleep. I didn't like the idea of detoxing in a place that would make me do this cold turkey. I have bi-polar and my psychiatrist was also concerned that doing this could send me down the rabbit hole. So I made it through and Friday morning finally came.

The suboxone is interesting to say the least. It is supposed to be doubling as a pain medication for me (I have genuine chronic pain), but doesn't do crap for my pain. I understand that my brain may associate pain relief with a high, but I am honestly in excrutiating pain most of the time. I still have cravings too. Is it just too soon? Is that just because I need to deal with the mental part? I thought the suboxone is supposed to help with that. So far, I'm unimpressed. I still have withdrawals...I'm still on the toilet all the time. I still sweat like a pig. I am lethargic. I feel flat - no emotions at all. Can't smile. I just assume not take anything at all at this point? Is it just too soon?

I realize that I cannot receive medical advice here. I will call my doctor Tuesday when she is back in. I am more looking for people with similar experiences etc

(I am on 2-4mg 2-3 times a day)

Thanks,

Raven

Stopdropburn

Hmmm.....I was on a fair amount of opiates, any that came in an Rx bottle, prior to starting Suboxone. When I was in w/d I started my first dose, and was freaking because it wasn't kicking in, so I keot taking more and more until both the 8mg tabs I had were gone, went all that day in w/d, woke up the next morning high as a kite, and stayed there not til the next day, but the day after.....very different, but an idea of the odd way it sometimes acts. After that I was fine. I have noticed that I would experience less w/d with a solid a.m. dose, verus when I used to take a smaller a.m. then smaller p.m.. I've read a few posts where people were changed by their doctors to take more smaller doses when they were experiencing TOO much effect from it. I would definitely ask your doctor about the idea, but stick to what they said until then. I myself was not ever prescribed any of the opiates or Subs I obtained, and a Suboxone habit can be just as addicting as any other opiate, trust me. Get off when you're supposed to. Good luck, hope they help you figure it out.

Raven4136

It is day 6 since I have taken any opiates and day 5 since I went on sub. I finally woke up this morning feeling somewhat ok. Still on the toilet a little but otherwise so far so good. I'm very glad because today I take care of my two year old son while hubby is at work.

I'm still on the fence about the sub though. I'm supposed to be using it for pain as well as wd and it doesn't seem to be doing crap. I was laying on the floor doing all of my stretches yesterday for my hip that I was taught in PT over the last year to no avail. If it is not going to be an effective pain medicine then I am nervous about being on it for the long haul after reading how difficult it is to get off of. My pain managment doc made it sound like a breeze compared to the oxy and morphine. Now that I've been through the worst of the detox, I wonder if I should just taper off from here and see what my pain is like. On the other end I wonder if that is not so smart as it may lead to heavier cravings for opiates that are now being covered by the sub? I'm so torn!!

Stopdropburn

I can say from experience, coming off of Suboxone is not nearly as bad as coming off of straight opiates. What you've read about coming off it is most surely inflated hype during the w/d's. You will go through w/d, I did at 1mg a day, but I've stopped using lortabs, codeine, morphine sulfate, methadone, oxys, oc's.....they are all far worse. Suboxone acts on two of the three opiate receptors, excluding Mu receptor - which is the one that causes the body to become physically dependant. I myself only had minimum pain relief from Suboxone, however, I can also attest that I had the same results with the rest of the opiates as well...using recreationally receded it's analgesic effects and became simply a euphoric buzz that helped me not think of the pain as much, but it was there. Also, I was much less active on opiates, and I've been learning over these past few days how much my joints and muscles hurt when I'm just sitting around bumming, but when I get up and do some excercise or light work it starts to dissipate. I was in PT as a child for my Scoliosis, but I had little relief from the excercises I learned unfortunately, now I know different things that are more effective, but I learned them through my own research and trial. Have you tried Lidocaine patches with your treatment, they're non-opioid transdermal patches, my mother used to use them for a number of issues, including a deteriorating spinal cord, and swore by them. Not that it's a definite, but an idea anyway. I would stick to your PT and light excercise (if you can), at the dose you're taking I'm surprised you're having pain and ANY symptoms at all...speaking of which, you might try Loperimide (Immodium) for the bathroom problems if they're still present. I would say if you could manage to stop using anything for pain, aside from OTC pain relievers and therapy/excercise, and actually get off Suboxone, go for it. Now if you jumped from what you're dosing, no, there is no way you're going to be ok in those w/d's, but if you can taper down as I did, then you can handle it. Talk with your doctor about your concern and what your goal is....hopefully you're not planning to live your life on pills til the end. Good luck and take care.

Raven4136

Thanks for the response! I have tried lidocaine patches, yes. I cannot get them to stick for the life of me!! I have tried so many different things and they just slip off...taping...everything! It gets very frusterating as they are super expensive and are supposed to last for 3 days.

There is an anti-inflammatory cream that I use that does help some of the pain that is closer to the surface area (my hands or spine for example), but it doesn't go deep when it's my hip and that is nerve pain anyways. So I'm a bit out of luck there. I need to bust out my traction table and see if that will help. Anything. Trust me...if there is a home non-narcotic treatment method for pain management, I've tried it or am currently doing it. It is extremely frusterating.

I really don't want to spend my days on pills. I don't want to spend my life in pain. It's quite the pickle. For now, however, I am happier in pain then the hell I was in 2 weeks ago deep in my addiction hell. I'm just looking for some sort of balance now. There has GOT to be some way!!

blackkitty

Raven,Ok, I read (and posted) on your other post. I am going to be taking 4mgs 4 times a day. OMG im getting nervous. if you are having trouble on the sub I guess that doesnt mean I am going to have trouble, but still, I dont want to have withdrawal, it sucks so bad. Anyway, I am going to start these things tomorrow morning. I still have hydros left but i am going to give them to my daughter to get rid of..Im so tired of being addicted to things..From what I have read I guess I will get addicted to the sub, too? Oh well, Ive got to start somewhere. Like you said, there has got to be some way...

blackkitty

why do you think the sub was not working at first? Does it take a little while for these things to kick in? Why were you high the next morning? Im sorry for all the questions but I am starting sub tomorrow morning and I amn just trying to find out all i can. Plus, I am scared as hell to go without my pills...

Stopdropburn

@Raven I had the same problem with those patches not sticking...but my mother truly swore by them and just not moving, apparently. I really hope you get some relief somehow. Never been in a traction, assuming *crossed-fingers*? I would still say try to taper when you think you're ready, it's not hard to get stuck on those too. My dealer was up to 32-48mg a day! Just because he loved the high....and I would just be like "Dude, that defeats the whole purpose." You can always bring your dose back up to par if it's too much too handle. Is it from one thing specifically you suffer from?

Stopdropburn

@blackkitty 16mg a day? Were you only on hydrocodone? I was using 10-15 10's a day and was fine at 2mg a.m. and 2mg p.m., after that first 3 day experience anyway. Suboxone has a very high affinity for opioid receptors, so it tears away any opiates from them and fills in. In hindsight, I was probably only half into w/d for the first time in the peak of that particular pill, and half anxiety/freaking out if I didn't find something...so once I finally slept the Subs kicked in and I woke up with 8mg in me......It's complete rubbish when people say "you can't get high off them", you absolutely can as easily as everything else, but you won't be if you're using it the way you're body needs. You shouldn't be experiencing a good buzz, it should be the bare minimum for staving off your w/d, then every two weeks you can begin to taper accordingly. Hope you do well on it, just seems like a high dose for a hydro habit. I've been on much harder opiates and still needed only 2-5mg a day,most. But good luck. Let us know how it goes.

Raven4136

Hi Kitty -

I have no idea why it doesn't seem to be working for me. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I was sold an idea of something that isn't as great as I was told it would be.

I am not sure why you are asking me about being high the next morning. I have not felt high from the sub. The only comment I made was that I was not getting the pain relief from the medication and that perhaps that was because my brain is used to being high and associating that with "pain relief" and since that piece was missing I was perceiving that the pain relief was not happening. Make sense?

You said you were starting tomorrow but didn't want wd's? Are you going straight onto the subs? I thought one needed to be in wd before the sub could bind to the receptors...just curious.

Hang in there. Even though I still had issues it really wasn't as bad as I expected at the beginning. Honestly, I was so scared ahead of time that I cleaned every toilet in my house (so I could puke over clean porcelain) and even put a stack of washcloths on each toilet. And that was just the beginning. I way over-planned what I would need. I was complaining a bit because my doctor made this all sound like smooth sailing once the sub was onboard and that was just plainly not the case. My psych doc, who was not my sub prescriber but whom I saw right before the induction, was the only one who was honest with me and told me that while it would take away the majority of the symptoms, it would not take them away completely - so thank God for her otherwise I would have been a lot more upset. I would rather prepare for the worst and hope for the best, ya know? You will get through it. I feel much better now in the wd dept. The craving dept is a whole other issue....

blackkitty

@stopdropburn...yes, only hydrocodone but I've been taking it for about 15 years..does that have anything to do with the dosage being high? I don't know..

blackkitty

@raven, sorry, I was asking stopdropandburn abut the being high in the morning..yes, my Dr Todd me to take it when I felt like taking a hydro, which will be in the morning, now. Now, i'm really scared, do y'all think I'll get really sick? Geez, I hope not.

Raven4136

@stopdropburn - I was beat up by a gang of girls very badly in my late teens which caused several disc issues in my neck and back. I had my first fusion at 19 and my second a few months ago. I have 2 other herniated discs and a few protruded ones that over the years have some spurs, arthritis, and other fun stuff going on due to the ergonomics of my 10 year long dental assisting career (which I retired from last summer). Some docs think it could also be rheumatic as I have ulcerative colitis - which sucks to boot because I cannot take any NSAIDS for pain. Then there are other doctors who use the fibro word but I don't care for that particular diagnosis myself. I think that means "I don't know go away I will slap you with the diagnosis that I don't have any tests for" condition.

I've tried years of doctors. I've tried years of ignoring the doctors. sigh. I will figure this thing out one way or another!!!

That's my story.

Stopdropburn

@Raven Geez, Sorry you have so many issues to combat. That's not fun at all. I sure hope you can find some real relief and progressive movement. I can see why you're having so many problems though. My mother has a degenerative spine disease and also has spurs at the base of her neck, just awful pain that I watched her in. I hope the best for you. Stay strong and try to keep your head up!

blackkitty

Well, day one of my suboxone. I feel pretty good! I hope it continues.

Raven4136

Great! Glad to hear that! Keep us posted! I also sent you a private message.