stephnc

Disturbing situation...I'd love some input. I go to several different AA meetings every week, some in my own town and some in another town that's close by. A man started attending meetings in this other town a few months ago and started becoming friendly with the regulars, seemed like a nice enough guy. I've never spoken to him personally but I had commented to my bff (also an alkie in AA who happens to live in this other town next to mine) that I thought he was cute. No big deal.

Well anyway, the guy started flirting w/my bff about a week ago...kind of started cozying up to her and running into her around town outside of meetings...again, not really a big deal since my bff already has a boyfriend. But of course the boyfriend noticed that this guy was flirting with my bff and was concerned since this guy had admitted to being in jail before he got sober (he'd mentioned it in meetings.) So my bff's boyfriend did a little digging on the internet, and discovered that this guy...the newcomer...had recently moved to our area from another part of the state - where he had not only served jail time for violently assaulting at least one woman, but he was also a suspect in a local murder.

My bff and her boyfriend are both beside themselves over this and feel that the people in the local AA meetings (particularly the women) should be warned about him. I'm not sure what to think...I mean, it's a fact that alcoholics - like people from all other walks of life - sometimes do terrible things, get punished for them, then have to get on with their lives. I'm wondering how people - specifically people in AA -make a distinction between being reasonably cautious about someone who could be a danger to them and engaging in character assassination.

My head is spinning over this. Sorry if it's too off-topic. Thoughts?

LexieCat

No, it's not off-topic at all.

A lot of people in AA have done some pretty awful things. There is a member in one of my groups who was on death row at one time.

If he's shared about his time in prison, then it's no secret. He has as much right to get sober as anyone, and there are plenty of abusers who have never been arrested. I think the only responsibility anyone has is to make sure he doesn't prey on newcomers. And I think the same would go for any guy with some "time" regardless of his criminal history. People who have been sober awhile are adults and should be able to do their own checking up on people's backgrounds if they are so inclined.

People go on dates with guys they meet through Match.com or similar services, and they take the same risks.

I think it's not a good idea to go spreading this around--it could be the guy has worked very hard at changing his life around. I don't like the idea of a "warning" campaign.

nandm

I have run into a similar situation. A convicted sexual predator got "sober" and attending AA meetings for quite a few years. A couple years ago he had another AA member help fix his computer and that member found child porn and other things on the computer and turned it over to the police. Needless to say the guy went back to jail. But what is scary is that he always wanted hugs from my partner and many other young women and both of us got a creepy feeling from him. He is now out of jail again and coming to meetings. Again he has started off with giving hugs to young women especially newcomers in meetings. What my home group did was have some of the guys talk to him and let him know that meetings are not for his dating pleasure and that although he was welcome to continue to come we would not tolerate that behavior in our group. He has not been back to our group since. This of course was pretty drastic but when I consider the women that now have a safer place to find sobriety I do not regret the decision that our group made.

My partner also had a stalker in early sobriety. She did not think twice when he asked her for her phone number as she had given it to many people in AA and she never dreamed he wanted more than that. He would call her at all times of the night. Sent her gifts all the time. Showed up at meetings and would try to sit next to her all the time. She finally had to be really rude with him to get him to stop. I believe that some of her friends also set him straight.

The thing is these things happen. Not all who are sober are well. We had issues prior to coming to AA and still many carry that same baggage into sobriety. All we can do is do our best to protect ourselves and be more aware just as we should be in any situation not just AA. Many groups will help if someone is having a serious problem. But they need to know about it to be able to help. I am not suggesting gossip I am suggesting talking with one person who you know is a home group member and that attends the business meetings as that is where the group should make these types of decisions. They can present it to the group at the business meeting and not utilize it as gossip but a problem the group needs to decide either needs support or not.

Best of luck to you. I am sure you will do the right thing for you and your friend.

DayTrader

Boy.... I'd love to give some advice but I have NO experience in this arena. I'll be watching this thread closely as I can see this sort of thing (as well as what Nandm posted) happening in AA.

I may even run it up the sponsor line to see what their combined 90yrs +/- has to say.

Sorry to hear you're dealing with this Stephanie. I don't know what I'd do besides take it to prayer ASAP. The idea of anonymity comes into play, maybe he's really working hard and is recovering, maybe the charges were bogus....sheesh......so many variables.

LexieCat

My ex-husband's group had a group conscience to deal with a predator in their midst. Again, though, it was specifically related to behavior he engaged in at meetings. (He'd already been kicked out of a couple of groups for that exact thing.) My ex took it upon himself to tell the guy he was no longer welcome. (I was out there visiting my kids and the guy even approached ME and told me a rather creepy story about how he was "helping" some newcomer by sleeping at her apartment.)

stugotz

Not for anything but, the rooms of AA and NA for that matter isnt exactly the most stable cross section of society. That being said, what ever anybody did in the past is exactly that, the past. I for one have quite an extensive criminal history. I always have been honest about my past since I have been sober.Who are we to judge anyone that wants help? For some reason a story about "glass houses and stones" comes to mind. Hmmm. Just sayin.....

PS. Thats my prison mugshot

DayTrader

I'm with ya bro.

I don't have that big of a record...dui's and that's about it....but my first mentor in AA was a dude with a rap sheet that would choke a stable of horses - and not little stuff either: home invasion, multiple armed robberies, assault with deadly weapons, attempted murder, trafficking, and about a thousand smaller charges. He WAS a baaaaad dude. A real gangster for sure. To meet him now, you'd NEVER know it. I find it hard to believe sometimes. Of course, 30 yrs sobriety has been good to him.

Anyway, back to the subject... my first thought was: kicking him out will only be tossing your group's problem (this guy) on another group to deal with. Wouldn't the better solution be to have a couple members sit him down and explain that he's more than welcome to stay BUT that this specific behavior: x, y and z will NOT be tolerated and will result in some penalties. Isn't it possible that he's just acting creepy because he doesn't know how to not act creepy.....yet? I'm not saying ignore what you know......but maybe dealing with him directly is the better solution.

shaun00

What business is it of anyones what history someone might have in AA...
Drunks are not known for being law abiding so some come with a rap sheet..

Researching an aa members conviction history on the www.....geez whatever next.

Kjell

This is where I would kindly say - check your motives.

LexieCat

FWIW,

The guy to whom I was referring HAD been spoken to, kindly but firmly, yet he persisted in behavior AT MEETINGS that was harmful to new members.

No doubt he DID take his show on the road to another group. I do firmly believe that a group conscience can exclude a member for inflicting harm on others, and has a responsibility to make it a safe place for vulnerable newcomers.

nandm

I could not agree more. Every group should have a way to protect itself and its members from these types of offenders. I have no issue with a person who has a criminal history but I do have a problem with them when they continue their criminal acts while in AA and preaching the program to others. Part of the program of AA is about improving ones self and stopping hurting others with our behaviors. To have a group member speak to these people and make sure they fully understand these behaviors will not be tolerated in their meeting only serves to help protect people who are there for sobriety not to be molested. It is hard enough to find sobriety but when one is molested in an AA meeting it can effectively deter them from coming back and finding sobriety.

Why would anyone condone these behaviors because they are afraid to offend someone who can do real harm to people, including putting roadblocks in the way of their recovery?

I do not take issue with anyone who has a criminal history only those that continue to hurt people by committing the same crimes in AA and hurting others. One of my best friends in AA was in prison for killing a man prior to getting sober. He is one of the nicest guys one could know but he works the program and has not repeated the behavior that got him in trouble in the first place. None of us were immune to illegal activity while drinking/using but we can do our best not to repeat those behaviors in sobriety and hurt others.

Music

Truth be known, I've never been to prison let alone spent a night in jail but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have. It just means I didn't get caught. I think most of us, if we were entirely honest about our past, have done things that could be considered anti-social, and even really gross to some people. AA is its own little society made up(as someone already mentioned)of a cross section of our society as a whole. We don't come to AA in the greatest shape mentally, physically and spiritually which is the point. I don't consider it to be "rude" or "mean-spirited" to take someone aside when these situations come up and let the person know their behavior isn't tolerated, because we're all vulnerable to one extent or another when we first come to AA. It takes time to re-habit ourselves so that we can display acceptable behavior and like we say, "some quickly, some slowly." There are ways to deal with these situations that don't have to include going off the deep end. We live in supposedly the most tolerant, forgiving society in the world but nowadays it seems people can be branded for the least little thing. Don't forget, most of us came to AA from roaming the bars, saloons and night clubs looking for an easy target to conquer. It takes time and guidance from those of us who've been around for a while and have learned new behaviors, to pass the message on and unfortunately, the only way to know who to pass the message on to is by identifying the problem and the person and dealing with it. These things should be handled discretely unless the person insists on continuing the behavior at which point, there are other options. Problem is, we tend to be a reactionary lot and deal in "knee-jerk" solutions. Easy Does It.

stugotz

Its funny how quickly we go from the "Gutter" to the "sainthood" I personally have been at meetings where you would think some people would levitate across the river when they left. Humility is a virtue and doesnt automatically come with a white chip. Just sayin...

DayTrader

Nope...... it comes with those brass ones though :rotfxko

zbear23

In my ripping and running days, I was pretty much an outlaw...and proud of it. And I know lots of folks in AA who are never going to tell anyone where the bodies are buried, but who are wonderful examples of the power of recovery.

As a recovered and responsible person, I am also law abiding these days, and most of my interactions with law enforcement in sobriety have been genuinely about "protect and serve." "normal" people utilize such resources when necessary. If I observe someone at a meeting endangering others by way of his/her behavior, I might want to think about involving the police to remove him/her. Or conduct the person to a psych hospital. (if I was unable to intervene safely myself). Lots of us have been in jail, and it is counterintuitive to be a "snitch," but really, folks.... The police are no longer my enemy.

In fact, at my home group a few weeks ago we called the police, and between the call and their arrival, an angry, out of control group member picked a fistfight with another member and threatened several others. He was arrested (for about the third time) and, sad to say, he was released almost immediately.

He died a week later as a direct result of his alcoholic drinking. That being said....we never ejected him from the meeting, nor barred him. It was his behavior, not the person, that was unacceptable. I wish he'd returned to the meeting upon his release from jail...perhaps he'd be alive today.

Love the alcoholic. Hate the behavior.

blessings
zenbear

Ananda

dito Zbear

Music

Thanks Z. To be able to separate the person from the behavior is indeed a gift from my HP. When I get PO'd at a drunk it's usually because I see in him what I dislike about myself. I'm staring right at my past behavior and I don't like what I see. I have to remember that by the grace of God, there go I. That's why it's so important to take the time to inform people who behave badly that in AA meetings, we don't tolerate disruptive behavior, nor do we judge the person by his behavior.

Boleo

GENERAL SERVICE BOARD News: Due to rotation, a number of new trustees were added to the board, including a new Chair of the Board, Ward Ewing and the new General Service Manager, Phyllis H.

- A subcommittee on Vulnerable Members in AA studied the safety of minors in A.A. (13 Stepping). It was decided that the GSB has no authority to control or direct members‟ behavior however members should be aware of the issues and make sure our homegroups are safe for anyone who is getting sober.

http://www.aad11a56.org/articles/60t...C%20Report.pdf

LexieCat

I agree with that. The GSB shouldn't be holding "AA Court" to decide who has been "offensive" but that doesn't mean that those who witness actual harm being done must stand idly by. To me, standing by and doing nothing when someone in AA is victimizing another is the same as standing by while a mugger on the street does the same thing. You intervene, WHEN NECESSARY, to protect the vulnerable. It's part of unity, IMO. If a word with the offender will accomplish that goal, fine. If all else fails, I think the group is within its rights to exclude the offender.