I'm a dry drunk
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Leaving Sparta
Posts: 2,912
Hello ismchanger, welcome to the forums.
We are glad to have you and are happy to hear your experiences.
We all have very strong opinions about a lot of issues and all are welcome to share them. Most importantly we can do so without singling out other members.
The great thing about AA is that we all have the right to choose how we want to work our programme. I am sure you know that.
We are glad to have you and are happy to hear your experiences.
We all have very strong opinions about a lot of issues and all are welcome to share them. Most importantly we can do so without singling out other members.
The great thing about AA is that we all have the right to choose how we want to work our programme. I am sure you know that.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
There is a lot of sensible advice here for you mate: ways you can reach where you WANT to be. HOW GREAT IS THAT! Knowing that you are heading for a place where you are at peace.
A truely amazing part of recovery.
A truely amazing part of recovery.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: canada
Posts: 170
Thanks for all your support, discussion and hope. I'm still here and I'm still sober.
I got out of myself a little last night and dropped into the rehab I attended to give them a christmas and thank you card. During my visit, I sat down with the counsellor on duty and we had a little chat. It helped to talk to her and also to see the inside of that facility again. Even though I felt shakey going in there again, it got me out of myself a little and seeing the other women in there reminded me of where I was. It reminded me that I don't want to go back in there again. I want my sobriety and I will fight past this depression and get back into being sober and happy. My addictions will not win this round.
The counsellor that I spoke with didn't even recognize me at first. She said that I look like a different person than I was when I was in treatment. She thought the physical change was quite dramatic, I guess I didn't really notice but once she mentioned it, I realized it is true. I'm healthier, have gained some much needed weight and even though I'm not feeling well mentally, physically I'm living much better. It helped to go in there and I'm glad that I didn't let my fears stop me from stopping by and letting them know that even though I am technically sober, I am struggling.
I got out of myself a little last night and dropped into the rehab I attended to give them a christmas and thank you card. During my visit, I sat down with the counsellor on duty and we had a little chat. It helped to talk to her and also to see the inside of that facility again. Even though I felt shakey going in there again, it got me out of myself a little and seeing the other women in there reminded me of where I was. It reminded me that I don't want to go back in there again. I want my sobriety and I will fight past this depression and get back into being sober and happy. My addictions will not win this round.
The counsellor that I spoke with didn't even recognize me at first. She said that I look like a different person than I was when I was in treatment. She thought the physical change was quite dramatic, I guess I didn't really notice but once she mentioned it, I realized it is true. I'm healthier, have gained some much needed weight and even though I'm not feeling well mentally, physically I'm living much better. It helped to go in there and I'm glad that I didn't let my fears stop me from stopping by and letting them know that even though I am technically sober, I am struggling.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Originally Posted by j'ade d'arcy
Thanks for all your support, discussion and hope. I'm still here and I'm still sober.
I got out of myself a little last night and dropped into the rehab I attended to give them a christmas and thank you card. During my visit, I sat down with the counsellor on duty and we had a little chat. It helped to talk to her and also to see the inside of that facility again. Even though I felt shakey going in there again, it got me out of myself a little and seeing the other women in there reminded me of where I was. It reminded me that I don't want to go back in there again. I want my sobriety and I will fight past this depression and get back into being sober and happy. My addictions will not win this round.
The counsellor that I spoke with didn't even recognize me at first. She said that I look like a different person than I was when I was in treatment. She thought the physical change was quite dramatic, I guess I didn't really notice but once she mentioned it, I realized it is true. I'm healthier, have gained some much needed weight and even though I'm not feeling well mentally, physically I'm living much better. It helped to go in there and I'm glad that I didn't let my fears stop me from stopping by and letting them know that even though I am technically sober, I am struggling.
I got out of myself a little last night and dropped into the rehab I attended to give them a christmas and thank you card. During my visit, I sat down with the counsellor on duty and we had a little chat. It helped to talk to her and also to see the inside of that facility again. Even though I felt shakey going in there again, it got me out of myself a little and seeing the other women in there reminded me of where I was. It reminded me that I don't want to go back in there again. I want my sobriety and I will fight past this depression and get back into being sober and happy. My addictions will not win this round.
The counsellor that I spoke with didn't even recognize me at first. She said that I look like a different person than I was when I was in treatment. She thought the physical change was quite dramatic, I guess I didn't really notice but once she mentioned it, I realized it is true. I'm healthier, have gained some much needed weight and even though I'm not feeling well mentally, physically I'm living much better. It helped to go in there and I'm glad that I didn't let my fears stop me from stopping by and letting them know that even though I am technically sober, I am struggling.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 872
The term doesn't exist? Funny, I've heard it before... and felt it before...
All a "dry drunk" means is behaving alcoholically without drinking -- being selfish, self centered, and self seeking -- also controlling your own life and wanting to control the world... all the bad behavior which lead us to drink...
It's real, and it's dangerous....
Ken
All a "dry drunk" means is behaving alcoholically without drinking -- being selfish, self centered, and self seeking -- also controlling your own life and wanting to control the world... all the bad behavior which lead us to drink...
It's real, and it's dangerous....
Ken
You motivate me to stay sober, too. Sounds like stopping in at the old rehab yesterday was a good reinforcement.Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Originally Posted by NoMoBeer
It's real, and it's dangerous....
Originally Posted by j'ade d'arcy
I got out of myself a little last night and dropped into the rehab I attended to give them a christmas and thank you card.
What a lesson you've taught here, j'ade.
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by ismchanger
J'ade, if you hang in there, keep going to meetings, stick close to your sponsor, etc., it will pass eventually. The dreams and such sound a little scary, but take it one day at a time and spend time in prayer; it'll get better!
Now, maybe this is cross-talking, but I think that michaelj is probably the dry drunk here. I believe that the experience of several hundred thousand recovering alcoholics who absolutely rely on their connection to a higher power carries far more weight than the white-knuckling adventures you can expect from relying on the power of your own "rational mind". In fact the rationalist perspective in itself prevents you from becoming humble and its denial of a Higher Power forces you to mentally accept an "easier, softer way". Accepting your inability to control things and humbling yourself to a God of your understanding is NOT the easier way -- just ask any successful AAer who has walked this road! Intellectual justification and rationalization may be the way out for some individuals, but they are NOT the solution.
I am not bashing michaelj, because he is probably right about the prolonged exposure to alcohol leading to the disease. But does he really understand how vulnerable he is to his own "rational mind"? Dude, your best thinking got you where you were, didn't it? Your best thinking didn't prevent you from becoming alcoholic, did it? Please get real with yourself and ask how the h*** you think you're going to pull this off without having a spiritual basis for your life? Man is a spiritual being, not just a lump of flesh.
I know a large number people in AA that have testified that the spiritual part of the Program kept them from coming in to meetings. Every one of them struggled with boozing for years until they decided they NEEDED spiritual help and humility, and then they chose to overcome their aversion to God in small steps (with the help of a good sponsor). Mostly they did so because they eventually found out that by running under their own power they invariably cracked up and boozed again.
Enough of my ranting. Sorry to any whom I have offended, but my opinion on this issue is very strong.
Back to J'ade...God does care very much about you, and He will protect you if you give yourself to Him. Don't force it; just remain open to His leading and check in with your sponsor about how you feel. God rewards patience in very big ways.
Now, maybe this is cross-talking, but I think that michaelj is probably the dry drunk here. I believe that the experience of several hundred thousand recovering alcoholics who absolutely rely on their connection to a higher power carries far more weight than the white-knuckling adventures you can expect from relying on the power of your own "rational mind". In fact the rationalist perspective in itself prevents you from becoming humble and its denial of a Higher Power forces you to mentally accept an "easier, softer way". Accepting your inability to control things and humbling yourself to a God of your understanding is NOT the easier way -- just ask any successful AAer who has walked this road! Intellectual justification and rationalization may be the way out for some individuals, but they are NOT the solution.
I am not bashing michaelj, because he is probably right about the prolonged exposure to alcohol leading to the disease. But does he really understand how vulnerable he is to his own "rational mind"? Dude, your best thinking got you where you were, didn't it? Your best thinking didn't prevent you from becoming alcoholic, did it? Please get real with yourself and ask how the h*** you think you're going to pull this off without having a spiritual basis for your life? Man is a spiritual being, not just a lump of flesh.
I know a large number people in AA that have testified that the spiritual part of the Program kept them from coming in to meetings. Every one of them struggled with boozing for years until they decided they NEEDED spiritual help and humility, and then they chose to overcome their aversion to God in small steps (with the help of a good sponsor). Mostly they did so because they eventually found out that by running under their own power they invariably cracked up and boozed again.
Enough of my ranting. Sorry to any whom I have offended, but my opinion on this issue is very strong.
Back to J'ade...God does care very much about you, and He will protect you if you give yourself to Him. Don't force it; just remain open to His leading and check in with your sponsor about how you feel. God rewards patience in very big ways.
DK
Michael
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London England
Posts: 291
When I posted my reply to this thread I expected to be challenged on my view that the notion of a "dry alcoholic" is an artificial construction used to further a dogmatic approach to "curing" alcoholic addiction. It was beyond my wildest dreams to have the term used against me. It is a kind of Orwellian mind set that insists that there is only one way to solve a problem and that if you deny that single approach then you are the problem. I disagree with a point of view, therefore I am the guilty party.
If you have a belief in a higher power, well good for you. If you think that that higher power will get you cured, well good for you.
If, like me you see absolutely no evidence for the existence of a "higher power" then you will see that life is a simple matter of choices and decisions. I chose to drink every drink I consumed. I made a rational decision to drink and "enjoy" it. Eventually, after 40 years exposure to the substance and having developed an addiction to it, I decided to become sober.
In accounting terms I had carried out a cost - benefit analysis and decided that the continuing consumption of alcohol had more cost than benefit so I quit.
I remain convinced that the "dry drunk" is a figment of the imagination and I will continue to argue against its deployment. What I will not do, however, is to criticise another person's sincerely held belief. If you want to pay homage to your "higher power", please feel free, but if you want to accuse me of a thought crime for disagreeing with palpable nonsense then please go ahead, as all you will be doing is showing your religious inspired bigotry.
By the way Ismchanger, my road to sobriety has not been a white knuckle ride because of my lack of religiosity. It has been a difficult journey because of the strong addiction that I had developed to alcohol. I look forward to hearing from any alcohol addicted religious person who has had an "easy" ride.
The argument that my lack of spirituality is setting me up for a fall is almost laughable. As though my taking another drink will somehow provide absolute proof that there really is a god. Oh spare me. It is inconceivable to me that a beneficent deity could first deprive me of my free will and then arrange for me to fall from sobriety to prove a man-made notion.
I have said enough for now, please argue against the logic of my position and I will happily reply. Please don't call me a dry drunk for daring to engage in a debate.
Michael
If you have a belief in a higher power, well good for you. If you think that that higher power will get you cured, well good for you.
If, like me you see absolutely no evidence for the existence of a "higher power" then you will see that life is a simple matter of choices and decisions. I chose to drink every drink I consumed. I made a rational decision to drink and "enjoy" it. Eventually, after 40 years exposure to the substance and having developed an addiction to it, I decided to become sober.
In accounting terms I had carried out a cost - benefit analysis and decided that the continuing consumption of alcohol had more cost than benefit so I quit.
I remain convinced that the "dry drunk" is a figment of the imagination and I will continue to argue against its deployment. What I will not do, however, is to criticise another person's sincerely held belief. If you want to pay homage to your "higher power", please feel free, but if you want to accuse me of a thought crime for disagreeing with palpable nonsense then please go ahead, as all you will be doing is showing your religious inspired bigotry.
By the way Ismchanger, my road to sobriety has not been a white knuckle ride because of my lack of religiosity. It has been a difficult journey because of the strong addiction that I had developed to alcohol. I look forward to hearing from any alcohol addicted religious person who has had an "easy" ride.
The argument that my lack of spirituality is setting me up for a fall is almost laughable. As though my taking another drink will somehow provide absolute proof that there really is a god. Oh spare me. It is inconceivable to me that a beneficent deity could first deprive me of my free will and then arrange for me to fall from sobriety to prove a man-made notion.
I have said enough for now, please argue against the logic of my position and I will happily reply. Please don't call me a dry drunk for daring to engage in a debate.
Michael
alconaut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Motor City
Posts: 729
What bothers me very intensely is suggesting someone grasp the concept of a doorknob as a higher power when someone is on the verge of relapse, and she's already thinking of a God who might not care if she does.
Please!
J'ade, I hope you're feeling better. It sounds like you have identified an action to help keep you sober (for now). Perhaps you could look into volunteering at a halfway house for recovering addicts, or something of the sort.... perhaps a detox center. I know that keeping my drinking past fresh in my mind is a very powerful motivator.
I don't rule out that it may not be enough in the future, however. Memories fade. I see a lot of "me" in "you" on the horizon, and I'm taking some steps to insure my progress. You have been here awhile, and know what's available as far as programs. There are some excellent suggestions on this thread, and if you're interested in AA, take a look again at NoMoBeer's initial post. I thought it was pretty helpful.
Your using dreams are curious to me. I'm almost certain they are manifestations of the subconscious, and I wish someone else could give you more insight into that. You might want to research and get to the root of it, if you haven't already. Maybe hypnosis.
Good luck to you J'ade.
(((hugs)))
Please!
J'ade, I hope you're feeling better. It sounds like you have identified an action to help keep you sober (for now). Perhaps you could look into volunteering at a halfway house for recovering addicts, or something of the sort.... perhaps a detox center. I know that keeping my drinking past fresh in my mind is a very powerful motivator.
I don't rule out that it may not be enough in the future, however. Memories fade. I see a lot of "me" in "you" on the horizon, and I'm taking some steps to insure my progress. You have been here awhile, and know what's available as far as programs. There are some excellent suggestions on this thread, and if you're interested in AA, take a look again at NoMoBeer's initial post. I thought it was pretty helpful.
Your using dreams are curious to me. I'm almost certain they are manifestations of the subconscious, and I wish someone else could give you more insight into that. You might want to research and get to the root of it, if you haven't already. Maybe hypnosis.
Good luck to you J'ade.
(((hugs)))
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 872
(((((j'ade))))) HOPE YOU'RE DOING GREAT!!!
Others -- please, stop the debating.... This thread is asking for help, not how much you all know about your respective recovery programs.
Either start a new thread, or go to the PMs..... Mods, please step in here if needed....
j'ade -- please feel free to PM me if you need to... hang in there!
Ken
Others -- please, stop the debating.... This thread is asking for help, not how much you all know about your respective recovery programs.
Either start a new thread, or go to the PMs..... Mods, please step in here if needed....
j'ade -- please feel free to PM me if you need to... hang in there!
Ken
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Leaving Sparta
Posts: 2,912
I tend to agree with Michael about the "dry drunk" phrase.
Far as I know it does not appear anywhere in the first 164 pgs. of the AA Big Book.
(If it appears in the "Personal Stories " section someone please bring it to my attention)
The phrase I believe was coined in an AA circle to somehow describe an individual who had stopped drinking but was still acting out on his character defects.
I have been guilty myself of using it to describe others but as I am maturing in recovery I am beginning to find the term inaccurate.
AA gives each and everyone of the us the right to work our programme in whatever way we prefer and because another member is not at the same place in recovery as I might be does not make him a "dry drunk"
Am I a dry drunk because I am not having a good day and am displaying signs of impatience and irritabiliy ?
Am I a dry drunk when I get angry and bellow at the employees?
Am I a dry drunk because I am not "Working The Steps"
Steps are a "suggested" path to recovery and I have known people sober and happy for years without formally working The Steps.
I know people who come to meetings regularly and participate in events and discussions who live sober happy lives.
I do not know anyone however who works a perfect programme.
Who exactly is a dry drunk anyway?If someone can narrow it down to a singularity please do so.
Perhaps the term can only be accurate when I apply it to myself.
Referring to others as "dry drunk" is pushing the boundaries of "inventory taking"
Far as I know it does not appear anywhere in the first 164 pgs. of the AA Big Book.
(If it appears in the "Personal Stories " section someone please bring it to my attention)
The phrase I believe was coined in an AA circle to somehow describe an individual who had stopped drinking but was still acting out on his character defects.
I have been guilty myself of using it to describe others but as I am maturing in recovery I am beginning to find the term inaccurate.
AA gives each and everyone of the us the right to work our programme in whatever way we prefer and because another member is not at the same place in recovery as I might be does not make him a "dry drunk"
Am I a dry drunk because I am not having a good day and am displaying signs of impatience and irritabiliy ?
Am I a dry drunk when I get angry and bellow at the employees?
Am I a dry drunk because I am not "Working The Steps"
Steps are a "suggested" path to recovery and I have known people sober and happy for years without formally working The Steps.
I know people who come to meetings regularly and participate in events and discussions who live sober happy lives.
I do not know anyone however who works a perfect programme.
Who exactly is a dry drunk anyway?If someone can narrow it down to a singularity please do so.
Perhaps the term can only be accurate when I apply it to myself.
Referring to others as "dry drunk" is pushing the boundaries of "inventory taking"
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Originally Posted by Peter
Who exactly is a dry drunk anyway?If someone can narrow it down to a singularity please do so.
I was a dry drunk.
I was short tempered with my children, full of fear and discontent, a veritable scrooge. Sobriety was a bitch for me at first. I was as self centered as before, only dry. So I reserve the right to refer to myself as a dry drunk, because I experienced it.
There's the singularity, Peter. Me, an individual.
It is an extremely pejorative term, nonetheless.
And to ascribe it to anyone else is pure blowing of hot air.
Every alcoholic is different. Every sober alcoholic struggling emotionaly is different.
j'ade has been extremelly honest in showing us a glimpse of her inner turmoil.
And extremelly tolerant of the crowing of a few in this thread.
Yet another valuable lesson, from a relative newcomer to sobriety.
I'm very grateful for her sharing.
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Leaving Sparta
Posts: 2,912
Originally Posted by Dan
j'ade has been extremelly honest in showing us a glimpse of her inner turmoil.
And extremelly tolerant of the crowing of a few in this thread.
Yet another valuable lesson, from a relative newcomer to sobriety.
I'm very grateful for her sharing.
And extremelly tolerant of the crowing of a few in this thread.
Yet another valuable lesson, from a relative newcomer to sobriety.
I'm very grateful for her sharing.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 19
Oh Please, enough already folks!
Hello to all of you,
I am posting here to you all with "respect" which I find sorely missing in some of the posts..Good Lord folks, what is more important here?? That a person get sober or that he or she only gets sober by being spiritual and going to AA?? Sober Recovery and all of you who contribute to it has helped me so much over the passed year. You should all know that this board can be a huge stepping stone to sobriety for so many, but some folks (like me) may just get turned off by all the bickering and down-right attacks...
People who post here, especialy new people are finally realizing that they need help and that they really want to change their lives...the LAST thing they need to hear is that they will never recover unless they follow a certain program even if the foundation of the program is foreign to them and against their fundamental beliefs..This is not an AA forum, for one thing. Don't get me wrong. I know many people have gotten sober with AA and do not mean to attack this orginization in any way at all... Go ahead, make your suggestions to the new-comers to try it and go to meetings, if it worked for you why not share that? But please, stop this "my way is the only way" thing. At the end of the day, sobriety is the desired result. How people obtain it is their business, and I feel they should be allowed to explore all the options and post about that without being shot down..
I am really sorry if I offended anyone, it really was not my intention and hope none of you will hold the honesty of my feelings against me. After all, we are all in this together.
I am posting here to you all with "respect" which I find sorely missing in some of the posts..Good Lord folks, what is more important here?? That a person get sober or that he or she only gets sober by being spiritual and going to AA?? Sober Recovery and all of you who contribute to it has helped me so much over the passed year. You should all know that this board can be a huge stepping stone to sobriety for so many, but some folks (like me) may just get turned off by all the bickering and down-right attacks...
People who post here, especialy new people are finally realizing that they need help and that they really want to change their lives...the LAST thing they need to hear is that they will never recover unless they follow a certain program even if the foundation of the program is foreign to them and against their fundamental beliefs..This is not an AA forum, for one thing. Don't get me wrong. I know many people have gotten sober with AA and do not mean to attack this orginization in any way at all... Go ahead, make your suggestions to the new-comers to try it and go to meetings, if it worked for you why not share that? But please, stop this "my way is the only way" thing. At the end of the day, sobriety is the desired result. How people obtain it is their business, and I feel they should be allowed to explore all the options and post about that without being shot down..
I am really sorry if I offended anyone, it really was not my intention and hope none of you will hold the honesty of my feelings against me. After all, we are all in this together.
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