Hi everyone
Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: directly above the center of the earth.
Posts: 4
There is no such thing as a hopeless cause in AA. We are all hopeless alcoholics that have gotten and stayed sober through AA and the steps.
Alcoholism is NOT a moral failing. Alcoholism is a disease. The treatment for the remission of our disease is AA. Keep going to meetings every day and don't drink in between. If you can't stay sober for a day. Try an hour and then the next hour and the next. You may not be able to stay sober for a week or a couple of days, but you will surely learn to make it for 24 hours and that is all you need to make it one day at a time.
You are drunk because you have a disease and cannot control your drinking. By admitting that we are beaten we gain freedom and become willing to go to any lengths to stay sober.
Step one:We admitted that we were powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unmanagable.
You CANNOT control your drinking, all you can do is avoid the first drink. All you have to do is not take that first drink, one day at a time.
You are not hopeless, you have a disease that is trying to shame you into drinking yourself to death.
Blessings,
J
Alcoholism is NOT a moral failing. Alcoholism is a disease. The treatment for the remission of our disease is AA. Keep going to meetings every day and don't drink in between. If you can't stay sober for a day. Try an hour and then the next hour and the next. You may not be able to stay sober for a week or a couple of days, but you will surely learn to make it for 24 hours and that is all you need to make it one day at a time.
You are drunk because you have a disease and cannot control your drinking. By admitting that we are beaten we gain freedom and become willing to go to any lengths to stay sober.
Step one:We admitted that we were powerless over alcohol and our lives had become unmanagable.
You CANNOT control your drinking, all you can do is avoid the first drink. All you have to do is not take that first drink, one day at a time.
You are not hopeless, you have a disease that is trying to shame you into drinking yourself to death.
Blessings,
J
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
Originally Posted by Hobo
I went to 3 meetings and didnt drink for 3 days. Then I bought some beer and got drunk and here I am one week later. I am unfixable but thank you for your messages. I am a worthless cause
That attitude is just that: an attitude. But if you look at the facts mate - then there is no reason why you can't be where I am at today: three years sober nearly, and my life back on track.
Now come on!
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Originally Posted by Hobo
I went to 3 meetings and didnt drink for 3 days. Then I bought some beer and got drunk and here I am one week later. I am unfixable but thank you for your messages. I am a worthless cause
People who quit drinking, regardless of the method they use, usually have those three things in common that I mentioned in my earlier posts:
They make a firm commitment to abstinence.
They make lifestyle changes that enhance that commitment.
They plan and practice for drinking situations.
Most lapses can be traced to one of those three areas.
"Then I bought some beer..." is where I would start. When you plan and practice for drinking situations, the time to look at is what you were thinking and feeling when you made the choice to buy that beer. Because drinking is behavior, and it really is a series of small choices and decisions we make. We make them based on beliefs we hold which can be disputed. You can change your beliefs, and in so doing you can change your behavior.
Very common beliefs at the time of purchase include...
I'll just drink one or two. (Is there any evidence from your past behavior that moderate drinking is likely?)
I deserve a beer! I've been sober for three days! (Will drinking a beer help you achieve the benefits of sobriety?)
I can't stand the way it feels to be sober! I'm depressed/anxious/bored (choose one)! (It's uncomfortable at first, but not unbearable.)
Focus on the moment of choice and plan for those moments in the future. I developed a simple saying to myself as I walked the aisles of the grocery store: 'there will be no alcohol in my house or in my body'. If you don't have it in your house, don't go where you can buy it (in early sobriety this can be pretty important), don't hang out with people who don't think fun is possible without alcohol, don't accept it if offered--then you won't find yourself drunk.
In the long run you'll want to focus on the feelings and situations that lead you to want to drink as a means of coping. If you're depressed, a counselor might be helpful. There are also great online resources for depression. If you're anxious, you might want to talk to your doctor (which we've suggested that you do anyway...). There might be mild medications they can prescribe to reduce that. There are also medications that can help with the urges--some people report good results with naltrexone, acamprosate in conjunction with counseling. Your physician might be able to refer you to a counselor who specializes in substance abuse, preferably one with CBT training.
These are all tools you might find useful. There isn't any one way that works for everyone, or even for most people. In my opinion it's a matter of finding an approach that you feel comfortable with, working on your sobriety every day, and being patient with yourself.
There is a link to alternative methods up at the top of the forum. I'd strongly suggest you do some reading at Women For Sobriety--their approach is very positive. As you know, I also like SMART Recovery, so I'd suggest you do some reading there. And check out some online meetings, either here at SR or at SMART Recovery.
If you've been drinking for a long time, you've developed a strongly reinforced behavior which is pretty hard to change. But not impossible.
Take care, and please keep in touch.
Don S
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Here's something I wrote for a friend of mine from these forums--who, by the way, drank for a long time and used drugs, and has found a way to stay sober and clean for quite a while now:
So you've had a 'lapse': now what?
Start by taking care of your body and mind for a day or so.
Don't beat yourself up, but don't minimize what you did either. For some reason you chose to do something that you rationally know is unhealthy for you. Somehow you overruled or ignored your conscious awareness that the costs of drinking outweigh any possible benefits, that you are an unlikely person to drink moderately based on your past behavior.
You've reopened some behavioral pathways in your brain that had begun to fade into distant memory. So for a little while urges are likely to be strong again, and your self-image is a little shot so your refusal skills (that's really what we're learning when we quit drinking) are going to be weaker than they were.
I'd suggest doing something every day to reinforce your commitment to abstinence. This is an opportunity to review what was going on when the 'lapse' started. And it's an important time to plan for future situations like the one you just went through.
So:
Ask yourself some questions.
What were you thinking? No, I don't mean this the way your mother used to say it to you. I mean, what were you thinking during the moment when you started the process? Your thoughts and beliefs at the moment of decision: at the store, at the cafe with your friends.
What were you feeling? Look carefully at the difference between thoughts and feelings. One is rational, the other emotional. Both lead to drinking. We can learn to counter the thoughts, and we can learn to manage the emotions. Were you feeling stressed? Anxious? Dejected? Angry? Giddy?
By the way, how are you feeling now? Be careful about rating yourself, about secondary upset (being upset about being upset), and watch out for that 'I give upämight as well' thought process. You are not your behavior. SMART Recovery concept: USA (unconditional self-acceptance). And, if people around you seem to lead to anger and frustration, and thence to drinking: UOA (unconditional 'other' acceptance). Need a link to articles about USA and UOA?
What were you doing and where were you doing it? (You can ask this in your best Jack Webb imitation voice.) There's a psychological part of the process; we'll get to that in a moment. But there's a physical part, too. People who quit drinking usually don't have alcohol in the house, don't buy it for any reason, don't go where it's being served until they have considerable confidence in their refusal skills.
What did you do? I mean specifically: what was the behavior? 'I got mad so I went to the store and bought some wine'. Try not to describe yourself as a loser, as a failure, as lacking in character. Be accurate and describe the behavior. See if you can do it while avoiding 'good, bad, shouldn't, can't, always, neverä' That can be difficult, eh? But it's the behavior -- not you -- that's the problem. 'I chose to drink, I have difficulty stopping when I start, and drinking is unhealthy behavior for me'.
What are you going to do next time? Look at the activating event, or the moment when your decision-making process tipped over in favor of drinking. That's the mood, the belief, and the thinking you'll want to plan for. SMART Recovery tool: do an ABC on the activating event (A) and the belief (B) that you were acting on which led to the condition (C) you found yourself in when you chose to drink. Then dispute (D) the belief, and try to get to an effective (E) new condition. Need a link to an ABC article?
What are you going to do now? SMART Recovery tool: try updating your CBA (cost-benefit analysis)--you've got some 'costs' of drinking fresh in your mind! Write them down on a little piece of paper and keep it handy.
But focus for a few minutes on the 'benefits' part: not the benefits of quitting, but what you thought the benefits of drinking would be.
Were those benefits real? Don't be afraid of your answer: we usually had reasons for drinking. If the benefits weren't real, describe clearly how they weren't and write it down. Remind yourself each day of how your perception was distorted or unrealistic. But if there were real benefits from drinking (it relaxed your mind, reduced your stress temporarily, etc.) acknowledge those benefits. Then start some goal planning: find ways to achieve those same benefits without alcohol. SMART Recovery tool and concept: disputing irrational beliefs, and recognizing when a belief is irrational (unhealthy, maladaptive).
What are you going to do next time? Have your own mantra or slogan handy, and repeat it often. 'There will be no alcohol in my house or in my body' worked for me. What's yours? Do some role playing about future situations, and have in mind how you'll react, what you'll say, when you'll leave, what you'll do, who's going to help you. Be specific. 'I get a ginger ale immediately on arriving, and ___ and I leave after 45 minutes or as soon as one of us feels uncomfortable.'
You're not starting over. You just need to practice the tools for refusing alcohol more often: be persistent.
And don't hesitate to reach out for support. Too many people stay away from forums at the time they'd make the best use of them, because they're embarrassed to admit a mistake. These forums would be a pretty boring place if only the sober people posted. Your experience can be helpful--far more helpful than you can imagine--to the others reading, the others too upset or afraid or embarrassed to step out ask for help. Your story is their story and our story.
Change is possible!
So you've had a 'lapse': now what?
Start by taking care of your body and mind for a day or so.
Don't beat yourself up, but don't minimize what you did either. For some reason you chose to do something that you rationally know is unhealthy for you. Somehow you overruled or ignored your conscious awareness that the costs of drinking outweigh any possible benefits, that you are an unlikely person to drink moderately based on your past behavior.
You've reopened some behavioral pathways in your brain that had begun to fade into distant memory. So for a little while urges are likely to be strong again, and your self-image is a little shot so your refusal skills (that's really what we're learning when we quit drinking) are going to be weaker than they were.
I'd suggest doing something every day to reinforce your commitment to abstinence. This is an opportunity to review what was going on when the 'lapse' started. And it's an important time to plan for future situations like the one you just went through.
So:
Ask yourself some questions.
What were you thinking? No, I don't mean this the way your mother used to say it to you. I mean, what were you thinking during the moment when you started the process? Your thoughts and beliefs at the moment of decision: at the store, at the cafe with your friends.
What were you feeling? Look carefully at the difference between thoughts and feelings. One is rational, the other emotional. Both lead to drinking. We can learn to counter the thoughts, and we can learn to manage the emotions. Were you feeling stressed? Anxious? Dejected? Angry? Giddy?
By the way, how are you feeling now? Be careful about rating yourself, about secondary upset (being upset about being upset), and watch out for that 'I give upämight as well' thought process. You are not your behavior. SMART Recovery concept: USA (unconditional self-acceptance). And, if people around you seem to lead to anger and frustration, and thence to drinking: UOA (unconditional 'other' acceptance). Need a link to articles about USA and UOA?
What were you doing and where were you doing it? (You can ask this in your best Jack Webb imitation voice.) There's a psychological part of the process; we'll get to that in a moment. But there's a physical part, too. People who quit drinking usually don't have alcohol in the house, don't buy it for any reason, don't go where it's being served until they have considerable confidence in their refusal skills.
What did you do? I mean specifically: what was the behavior? 'I got mad so I went to the store and bought some wine'. Try not to describe yourself as a loser, as a failure, as lacking in character. Be accurate and describe the behavior. See if you can do it while avoiding 'good, bad, shouldn't, can't, always, neverä' That can be difficult, eh? But it's the behavior -- not you -- that's the problem. 'I chose to drink, I have difficulty stopping when I start, and drinking is unhealthy behavior for me'.
What are you going to do next time? Look at the activating event, or the moment when your decision-making process tipped over in favor of drinking. That's the mood, the belief, and the thinking you'll want to plan for. SMART Recovery tool: do an ABC on the activating event (A) and the belief (B) that you were acting on which led to the condition (C) you found yourself in when you chose to drink. Then dispute (D) the belief, and try to get to an effective (E) new condition. Need a link to an ABC article?
What are you going to do now? SMART Recovery tool: try updating your CBA (cost-benefit analysis)--you've got some 'costs' of drinking fresh in your mind! Write them down on a little piece of paper and keep it handy.
But focus for a few minutes on the 'benefits' part: not the benefits of quitting, but what you thought the benefits of drinking would be.
Were those benefits real? Don't be afraid of your answer: we usually had reasons for drinking. If the benefits weren't real, describe clearly how they weren't and write it down. Remind yourself each day of how your perception was distorted or unrealistic. But if there were real benefits from drinking (it relaxed your mind, reduced your stress temporarily, etc.) acknowledge those benefits. Then start some goal planning: find ways to achieve those same benefits without alcohol. SMART Recovery tool and concept: disputing irrational beliefs, and recognizing when a belief is irrational (unhealthy, maladaptive).
What are you going to do next time? Have your own mantra or slogan handy, and repeat it often. 'There will be no alcohol in my house or in my body' worked for me. What's yours? Do some role playing about future situations, and have in mind how you'll react, what you'll say, when you'll leave, what you'll do, who's going to help you. Be specific. 'I get a ginger ale immediately on arriving, and ___ and I leave after 45 minutes or as soon as one of us feels uncomfortable.'
You're not starting over. You just need to practice the tools for refusing alcohol more often: be persistent.
And don't hesitate to reach out for support. Too many people stay away from forums at the time they'd make the best use of them, because they're embarrassed to admit a mistake. These forums would be a pretty boring place if only the sober people posted. Your experience can be helpful--far more helpful than you can imagine--to the others reading, the others too upset or afraid or embarrassed to step out ask for help. Your story is their story and our story.
Change is possible!
alconaut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Motor City
Posts: 729
(((Hobo)))
I just wanted to tell you I am thinking of you today.
Then I found your thread and saw the other stuff you wrote. I'm glad you're still posting.
I can't tell you how often in the past I felt "unfixable" and "worthless". Phooey!
You went three WHOLE DAYS without drinking!
If you're anything like me, then you probably won't start feeling better for awhile. For me, it took longer than 3 days, other than the physical changes which are automatic for everyone.
Right now, I would just focus on staying abstinent (unless you're thinking of doing something rash), and work on the rest later. It's pointless to even try if you're drinking. Know what I mean? I can't ever remember waking up after drinking and not be miserably depressed (and usually physically ill).
I PROMISE that if you can stay clean for a little longer, your world will brighten up. Motivation to fix the rest will come with it. So just focus on not drinking for now. The rest of the world is one great big present waiting to be opened. Really - it is. I can't even begin to tell you how much more beautiful life becomes, every day.
As always, I say: keep posting! You're making a lot of progress Hobo, so don't be too hard on yourself.
Then I found your thread and saw the other stuff you wrote. I'm glad you're still posting.
I can't tell you how often in the past I felt "unfixable" and "worthless". Phooey!
You went three WHOLE DAYS without drinking!
If you're anything like me, then you probably won't start feeling better for awhile. For me, it took longer than 3 days, other than the physical changes which are automatic for everyone.
Right now, I would just focus on staying abstinent (unless you're thinking of doing something rash), and work on the rest later. It's pointless to even try if you're drinking. Know what I mean? I can't ever remember waking up after drinking and not be miserably depressed (and usually physically ill).
I PROMISE that if you can stay clean for a little longer, your world will brighten up. Motivation to fix the rest will come with it. So just focus on not drinking for now. The rest of the world is one great big present waiting to be opened. Really - it is. I can't even begin to tell you how much more beautiful life becomes, every day.
As always, I say: keep posting! You're making a lot of progress Hobo, so don't be too hard on yourself.
body ~ mind ~ spirit
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Geelong, Australia
Posts: 582
Hey Hobo, we are all worthless causes, or were at some point. Come join the club, you can do it!
Keep posting and keep reading, drinking or not. There may be someone out there who was able to stop really easily without relapsing but I haven't met them yet. I found it a process, first thing is to know without a doubt that you can't control alcohol. I finally figured that if I took the alcohol away I just might be ok, and that was the truth of it, but totally admitted to myself and others that I could not drink alcohol.
keep coming!
love brigid
Keep posting and keep reading, drinking or not. There may be someone out there who was able to stop really easily without relapsing but I haven't met them yet. I found it a process, first thing is to know without a doubt that you can't control alcohol. I finally figured that if I took the alcohol away I just might be ok, and that was the truth of it, but totally admitted to myself and others that I could not drink alcohol.
keep coming!
love brigid
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 11
I am sorry. I've been in free-fall for about 5 years and the past several days have been especially rough. I called in sick today because i was so hung-over. I have bruises and cuts on my body from the weekend that I can't account for. i am a drunk and as I type I reek of booze. I have to go to work tomorrow and explain my sick-day and I will still reek of it. No one will believe me. I am tired and drunk and I feel like a vampire sucking on this post by vicariously feeling your success while I have none. The meetings were helpful but the people stared at me and at one the women running it pointedly asked if anyone was "new" to AA. And then she stared a hole through me as I failed to raise my hand, and said someting like "I guess things are different now, I guess no one uses sponsors." But I looked on the AA directory that Don sent me and the meeting was an "OSNS." That, I learned, means "Open Speaker Non Smoking" meeting. I took "Open" to mean that anyone could go but everyone seemed to know one another and I felt like an outsider.
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
When you go back to the meeting and you start to shake hands with afew people, you will find, you are not an outsider.
You will find that every one in the room has been right where you are.
Every one in the room understands, because they have lived it.
Your not an outsider, you are a friend that they just don't know at the moment.
You will find that every one in the room has been right where you are.
Every one in the room understands, because they have lived it.
Your not an outsider, you are a friend that they just don't know at the moment.
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Hi, Hobo,
I've never been to an AA meeting, but I can imagine you'd feel awkward at first. Others can give you some suggestions for how to feel more comfortable; maybe approach someone who looks friendly when you first arrive? You said the meetings were helpful, so focus on that and try not to worry about what others are thinking. You may be misinterpreting their looks and comments; they're probably trying to be welcoming to you.
Yes, you're tired, because alcohol does that to us. The main thing is to take care of yourself right now. Eat some healthy food, drink lots of water, take some vitamins. Get some rest. Tomorrow, when you go to work, I imagine you wouldn't be lying if you said you had an upset stomach and a headache.
Have you called your doctor for an appointment? It sounds as though talking to a professional might be useful.
And please check in each day. Take care,
Don
I've never been to an AA meeting, but I can imagine you'd feel awkward at first. Others can give you some suggestions for how to feel more comfortable; maybe approach someone who looks friendly when you first arrive? You said the meetings were helpful, so focus on that and try not to worry about what others are thinking. You may be misinterpreting their looks and comments; they're probably trying to be welcoming to you.
Yes, you're tired, because alcohol does that to us. The main thing is to take care of yourself right now. Eat some healthy food, drink lots of water, take some vitamins. Get some rest. Tomorrow, when you go to work, I imagine you wouldn't be lying if you said you had an upset stomach and a headache.
Have you called your doctor for an appointment? It sounds as though talking to a professional might be useful.
And please check in each day. Take care,
Don
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Originally Posted by Hobo
... I am tired and drunk and I feel like a vampire sucking on this post by vicariously feeling your success while I have none.
...
...
I worry about how bad you feel about yourself. You can call yourself a 'drunk' if you want to, but you are much more than that. I could tell you the benefits I've found from longterm sobriety, but it would be better if you thought about those benefits yourself. What would you like your life to be like 30 days from now? A year? How would you like to feel? What would you like to be doing?
Don
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 11
I feel at this moment like a blubbering mass of stpidity. I am a hastily thown together mess on good days and a reeking bag of vodka on bad days. I don't know waht to do. Everone has given m good advice but it's up o me to stop. Thatnks for your words and god bless.
I've ben reading a lot and thinking a lot about Jesus emerging from his tomb, alive and conscious of the whole world. That's the way I want to feel. I want to live life again and I promise that I'll keep posting as long as anyone is willing to read it.
I've ben reading a lot and thinking a lot about Jesus emerging from his tomb, alive and conscious of the whole world. That's the way I want to feel. I want to live life again and I promise that I'll keep posting as long as anyone is willing to read it.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
O my..Hugs to you!
I sat way in the back for months...cried...did not speak.
All I remember was a vanner over the lectern...
"Keep Coming Back It Works"
I did and it has!
I sat way in the back for months...cried...did not speak.
All I remember was a vanner over the lectern...
"Keep Coming Back It Works"
I did and it has!
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Don't worry, we're more than willing to read your posts!
One thing I'd like to suggest is that you be careful, be very watchful, of when you are characterizing yourself--rating yourself--in negative ways. It is perfectly reasonable to describe your behavior any way you want, but to describe yourself as stupid, or a mess, is just too one-dimensional and can lead to more distress. You already feel pretty rotten, physically and psychically, so try not to beat yourself up so much.
Instead, try describing the behavior and try to reaffirm your strengths. So try this:
"My behavior has been unhealthy and hard to manage. It leads me to feel disorganized on good days, and unhealthy on bad ones. But I have made a decision to change."
"I want to live life again."
That sure seems like a good place to start.
Don
One thing I'd like to suggest is that you be careful, be very watchful, of when you are characterizing yourself--rating yourself--in negative ways. It is perfectly reasonable to describe your behavior any way you want, but to describe yourself as stupid, or a mess, is just too one-dimensional and can lead to more distress. You already feel pretty rotten, physically and psychically, so try not to beat yourself up so much.
Instead, try describing the behavior and try to reaffirm your strengths. So try this:
"My behavior has been unhealthy and hard to manage. It leads me to feel disorganized on good days, and unhealthy on bad ones. But I have made a decision to change."
"I want to live life again."
That sure seems like a good place to start.
Don
Extremity
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: somewhere, out over that away
Posts: 183
Originally Posted by Hobo
... alive and conscious of the whole world. That's the way I want to feel. I want to live life again...
Written by you toward the ideal of what your inner-most-self KNOWS that you already are.
You keep posting.
I'll keep reading.
Be Alive
Be Well
alconaut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Motor City
Posts: 729
Originally Posted by Hobo
I read the posts on this site religiously... for about a year now.
I hope so. You are thought of and missed.
(((hugs)))
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