Mogqua

SMART, RR, MM 12 Step, and the various church programs all use support group methods in reinforcing their practices.
Many will argue this point, but it is a pointless battle of semantics.

The closest thing I found to a "no support group format" is Lifering and they do it too, although the structure is much more loose and undefinable there.

I don't go to "support groups" to get sober and I had plenty of compeling reasons to keep using.

I go to those places (whatever's available) to enrich a basis of understanding, which helps me stay sober by giving me more compeling reasons to stay sober/clean etc.

I get to see the applications and mis-applications in comparison to the literature they produce.

There always groups within the groups and individuals that will tell you everything under the sun to get you to be part of their beliefs.

The only thing I can really suggest is that you keep reading, keep trying and eventually you will find your own way.

tyler

Just spent a couple of hours chating on Lifering. Real helpful. Very casual. Highly recomend it. http://unhooked.com if you don't have the link.

Cathy31

Hi dear Lucy

Can it be done - absolutely yes. Is it good enough for you, though that is the question.

For the past few years I have given up alcohol for 2-3 months every new year - no AA - usually in remorse for disgraceful christmas behaviour. Am a binge drinker, so found it relatively easy.

However, since I found AA I have realised that quitting drinking is about more than just quitting drinking...of course you can do it without support..without AA..but why would you want to?? If you know you are an alcoholic, you know that it is a disease of the mind...and that drinking alcohol is only a SYMPTOM...not the cause of our dis-ease .

I know from your previous posts that you have had a very good experiene in AA, one which your husband has reinforced by (paraphrase) talking about the happy person you were when in AA...when you spoke to him about returning.

For me, I deserve more than just not to drink. I owe it to myself and my family to not drink, yes, but MORE importantly, I owe it to myself and to them to live the best life possible, to GROW spiritually, to have true peace of mind, to experience serenity, to help others...I can do all of this utilising the tools I have in AA.

So yes, of course you can do it...is it enough for you though, that's what you need to decide. Just being sober is not enough for me - I've done it too often, it's only now that I am in AA that I can truly start feeling inner peace and contentment, and real happiness. My life is a wonderful journey at the moment - and not drinking is only a part of it.

Good luck either way, Lucy!
CAthy31
x

goneriding

I do exactly what Bookie12 does. Smart Recovery, Rational Recovery, read self help books or the like (right now I am reading A Million Little Pieces - Awesome) and post as much as I can. Works for me - but may not work for everyone.

JaySee

What an excellent thread.

I love hearing about ALL recovery. All the different ways people bring about the necessary changes in their lives to keep the booze at bay is just brilliant.

I agree totally with the spirit of this thread - recovery is there - but some work is needed to get it. I tried and tried on my own - and FOR ME I couldn't do it - so I had to break down some massive barriers I had built up towards change - to finally accept that I needed to change if I was going to recover.

I find the support/program/way of life AA suggests/offers works for me - but I know it is not the only way to recover - and I love to hear about all recovery.

thanks people
much love
JC

Don S

Nice and very interesting replies here. I'm really glad you started this thread.

One more point I'd like to make from my own experience: that which is compelling now, may not be later. But don't let that worry you. After prolonged sobriety, abstinence becomes your new habit and I have found it is easier to sustain as time goes by.

At first, I told myself that quitting drinking would, or at least might, save my marriage. That I would quit drinking for my kids. But I did have to acknowledge the reality that my marriage might not be saveable--that was not, obviously, entirely in my hands! So I couldn't support my sobriety on that slender reed, or I daresay I'd be drinking today. And that my kids, motivating factor though they might be, wouldn't always be around on a day to day basis. So in the long run, I would be getting sober for myself.

But as I said, that doesn't really matter. Standing in the grocery store, arguing with myself about buying a bottle of wine, the most immediate and compelling reason was 'I promised my kids there would be no alcohol in my house or in my body'. It was compelling enough at the time, and now the decision not to drink is just second nature. It's when you're having that daily argument that it's useful to keep those reasons and answers at the fore of the brain.

After some months had gone by, I noticed that there were many days when I hardly thought about drinking at all except in the abstract sense of posting on forums or reading about it. The thoughts had become objective considerations rather than 'needs' and urges. Drinking was not something I thought about when stressed or anxious; I was doing something else instead in response to those emotions.

Welcome to SR, Maria! Your teenage girls will appreciate the efforts you make towards sobriety, even if they don't express it directly. It sets a powerful example for them: that they have choices, that they can make change happen in their own lives, and that you care enough to do something for yourself so their lives can be less stressful. Forums like this can be very helpful. And yes, memory problems, irritability, mild disorientation can all be part of the process of quitting. Keep in touch, and be aware that there are lots of other parents here--I've got a teenage boy and a teenage girl....we can all swap our experiences about it.

Don S

boop64132

I have been sober now for 18 months! I did it without the help of AA or anyother group.
But I think it depends on the person and the desire of stopping and why.
I had the very strong shoulders of SR and a few wonderful friends,and of course a very supportive family.
My last drunk was a very tramatic awful "slap in the face"and I strongly beleive that it was just in time.
I made a choice...the alcohol or my family! I took the path to a healthy relationship with my family.
I DO NOT have the desire to drink again!
Will I someday? Maybe so...but for now even the smell makes me sick to my stomach!

I read books,and kept a journal and I have the very strong support of my children and my husband...and I have the Lord in my life.

So,yes I think it can be,but everyone needs some kind of support system be it AA,or some other place...or a strong family support system.
Could I have quit if I would have had no one? No! I would still be drinking today,or perhaps dead!

LucyUK

thanks for all the input everyone, it's very helpful to read. Congrats boop on 18 months!!!

I really feel like I am changing pretty quickly, and it's all good. I do have a very supportive family and I also agree that long term, stopping drinking for someone else probably isn't the best motivation. For me, the fact that my depression would kill me is great motivation at the moment and I feel very relaxed and calm about everything, like a switch has been flicked that says, 'you don't drink any more' end of story. but, I know how great AA was for me before and I won't rule it out in any sense. I chatted to my sponsor for ages about this too and we'll keep talking regularly.

findinganewme

Dear Don S .... I read your post and others on this thread ..... as tears filled in my eyes ..... and somehow felt LESS alone than I have in a long time.

It is so very hard to overcome this addiction, but having finally ADMITTED to myself that I have a problem is the most I've done in 3 years! Of course, having your 18-year-old daughter cry in front of you and say *Mom, do you want to always be remembered as an Alcoholic* was a bit of a motivator. However, even that, as painful as it was, didn't make me stop. It took a close call with the law (as I've been in before) ..... that opened my eyes .... or scared the crap out of me! NOW, I'm determined to not only get sober for myself but to get the respect back from my family and friends who just lost all faith in me! Although that did not bother me for a very long time, it does NOW .... now that I'm trying to recover .... the pain is more than I can handle somedays .... I'm so ashamed, embarassed, and hurt over what I've put those that I love through! Is it possible to rebuild and recover these relationships after years of addiction????

My marriage is another story .... living under the same roof again after 3 years of being away. TOUGH .... GOD IT'S TOUGH. I don't know whether I'm confusing/hurting my girls more with my return!

THANK YOU for this statement: Your teenage girls will appreciate the efforts you make towards sobriety, even if they don't express it directly. It sets a powerful example for them: that they have choices, that they can make change happen in their own lives, and that you care enough to do something for yourself so their lives can be less stressful.
It truly put my struggle in perspective! THANK YOU! I know that the best thing, FOR EVERYONE, would be to get help because I've failed in the past doing it on my own. I just didn't realize that doing so woud, in fact, be sending a POWERFUL message and setting a tremendous example for my girls. WOW ..... you truly opened my eyes and gave me strength with your words.

This is a wonderful place. I'm glad I discovered it. I'm very green yet ... just really only a few weeks into sobriety and it's hard to know what to do, where to go or how to get help! It's such a useful tool to have people that are so willing to share in their experience and help those of us who are so LOST!

I thank you from the bottom of my heart, Don .... and everyone else!

Wishing you all a truly peaceful day!

Much love,
Maria

CAPTAINZING2000

I could have stopped on my own. The trouble I think, alcohol is but a symptom of our disease. I didn't lie and cheat cause I drank, I drank because, I lied and cheated. We have character defects we need to correct. So many people come into AA etc. and are guilt ridden.

AA just gives you some tools to use. AA also puts you in with other people that, for the most part will not be using or drinking.

Do you always drink alone? The people I used to hang with had a common denominator with me, we got F#CKED UP.

We get better and our lives imptove by giving back. AA is selfish in the fact everyone is in there trying to save their own A$$. However, I was a selsfish SOB b 4 I came into AA. Now, I've gained an interest in making sure I offer my ESH to those aout there who's lives our miserable


The important thing to remember, I can't stress this enough. No one ever beats this till the day they die. Th moment you think you can drink again, it's going to kick your ASS

FriendofBill

Imagine what they'd say at your funeral?
"Mom refused to get help cus of what people would think about her".

Wonder what they;ll think of you then?

findinganewme

WOW!

BLUNT!

BUT SO VERY TRUE!

WOW ... I'm still trying to digest and accept that one!

It's so sad that we must scare ourselves into recovery! But, I suppose we should be glad SOMETHING did!

OK ... made me cry! BUT I THANK YOU!

Maria

CAPTAINZING2000

Rehab Beats Prison. I Wouldn't Want To Go To Either But, Rehab Would Help You.

doorknob

Hi Mogqua,

RR ended all support group recovery meetings because Jack Trimpey decided all support groups were damaging. I think this is very unfortunate, but SMART took off on their own and became their own successful organization.

LifeRing actually bases their whole recovery method on the group support process. True, they do not prescribe a capital "P" program and encourage each person to take it upon themselves to create their own, but the foundation of their program is one addict helping another stay sober. Here are a few informative links if anyone is interested in pursuing this method.

Letter to Treatment Professionals:

http://www.unhooked.com/trxpro/index.htm

LifeRing's Three-S Philosophy:

http://www.unhooked.com/lsr/three_s_philosophy.htm

Empower Your Sober Self (********** Slide Show):

http://www.unhooked.com/lsr/empower_your_sober_self.htm

LifeRing Chat Room (No Registration Required)

http://www.unhooked.com/chat/index.html

Doorknob

tyler

You are correct, of course about RR Doorknob, I would also like to add that support groups are very optional when it comes to working the SMART program. Face to face meetinings are available in a few places and online meetings are available, but I would say that most people work the SMART on their own. It is more of a system of tools to learn to use when urges hit than a meeting process. It is the primary system I use, though I also visit Lifering and hit the occasional NA meeting. Don S is a great sourse for info on SMART. Just wanted to comment on that.

Mogqua

Regardless of the Trimpey demand, there are still support groups in RR. Maybe Trimpey does not want to support them or acknowlkedge them but they still exist. Those of our temperment do not respond well to dictators.

Lifering does have support groups, but they seem so unstructered according to other formats that they don't seem to be a support group. I actually like this feeling of mutual friendship they try to use as their method. It seems to me to be centered more around the seminars and reading lists than of the "structered group format."

There are meetings known as "renegade" 12 step meetings that are not allowed in any directory but still well known and use the 12 step format.

Meetings are optional in 12 step groups also.

I actually know quite a few people that do NA and AA and that have never been to a meeting - using the corespondance of the "loner program."
Some have only read the books and literature.
When we get together, the discussion is not about "program" so much as it is just catching up on events etc.

The point I was making was that all programs have members that have specific and sometimes absolute beliefs about that program. And that they often form their own groups regardless of the edicts of that program. Doesn't matter what the name is.

I have met members in each of those methods that believe that meetings are required for continued abstinence (except lifering.) And it is really a matter of choice whether you want to or not.

The last two posts actually prove this point.

So the best thing I can try to give is the inspiration of just continuing to try and remain abstinent by whatever means possible at the time.

Really, if you think about it, to be completely free from this you would have to not only stop using, drinking, behaving in your obsession - but stop being part of any group obsession over the obsession.

Use them all, use none of them and move on.

Welcome to my addiction to continuing to be here. LOL!

Be Well!

findinganewme

Thank you so very much Carol. This site has been a Godsend. Instead of drinking I engross myself in here ....... so much knowledge ....... so much sharing ..... so much heartache.

I'm having a really awful day. I'm trying very hard not to go buy alcohol, although I want it terribly. I discovered that I used it when disturbing, stressful situations occured. Today I asked my daughter not to use my PC because some of the keys are sticking ...... she said "mom, maybe it was you when you were drunk."

GOD! THAT HURT TERRIBLY!

Although Ive tried very hard, my girls just don't want to forgive me and I don't know what to do about it.

Thanks for listening, Carol ...... sorry I rambled.

I got out the telephone book and plan to call AA. I NEED HELP AND A SUPPORT GROUP that understands ...... just like everyone here!

Much love to ya!
Maria

Don S

Urges may feel overwhelming, but they will pass!
Your kids will judge you by what you do, not what you say, although they wouldn't mind having a reassurance that this time you really mean abstinence.
Each day that you don't drink, they will have greater confidence that you really mean it.
I remember when someone gave us a bottle of wine, and I kind of dithered about what to do with it. Finally I opened it to add salt, in order to make it undrinkable but useable in cooking. My son walked in just as I was measuring out 4 Tbsp. of salt to pour into the bottle.
'What are you doing?!' I could sense the anxiety in his voice.
'Adding salt to make this undrinkable.'
'Ooooh.'
He walked over, gave me a big hug, and walked out of the room.

When an urge strikes, repeat your mantra, whatever you've come up with to remind yourself that drinking is just something you don't do anymore.
'There will be no alcohol in my house or in my body.'
'There is nothing in my life that alcohol will make better.'
or...
'Nope. I just don't do that anymore.'

Take care, and keep in touch.
Don S

findinganewme

Don, thank you so much for your input.

I know it's only been a short while (a month) in sobriety! I also know it will take time for both me and my kids.

However, they can say the cruelest most hurtful things! No matter how hard I try, I'm still a *drunk* in their eyes. They have stopped talking to me (even though I haven't drank or anything else in a month) and it hurts like hell. Just this morning when I told my daughter she couldn't my PC anymore because some of my keys stick, she said "well it was probably you when you were DRUNK!" WOW, talk about a steak through my heart.

They are wonderful girls and they deserve so much better! The last three years have been HELL! I am a lost soul. NOTHING like I used to be. I epitomized (sp?) what a *GREAT MOTHER* should be. I was a stay-at-home mom and thoroughly enjoyed it ..... happiest time of my life. They were my EVERYTHING (still are). Divorce was one of the reasons I started drinking, but certainly not the only reason. So, not only do they not respect me and hate me because of my addictions, but because I was the one who wanted the divorce.

I try to talk to them. They're old enough to understand (18 and 16) but they just don't want to hear it .... they roll their eyes and say they do not want to talk to them. I also have done everything ALL wrong these last 3 years. Because of the GUILT, I tried to BUY their love with giving them everything they wanted. Guess what ...... it doesn't work. I didn't realize the message I was sending until my oldest told me that "you're not a mother, all you do is give us money and buy us stuff) ..... I, of course, did it out of love, and I'll admit GUILT, but it certainly backfired.

I feel like such a HORRIBLE MOTHER.

Well, I've rambled and I thank you for reading. I hope I did not bother you.

ON A GOOD NOTE ..... I'm attending my VERY FIRST AA meeting this evening!

Thanks for caring enough to reply.

Much love,
Maria

Kahlia

HOW would it sound to YOU to hear "MOM is in REHAB???" It would sound good if you want to recover......kahlia Best wishes......