Beckoning Cat's Accountability Thread
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
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BC, thinking you also might check out Lifering Secular Recovery, which has many meetings in California, both online and face-to-face in non-viral times.
no higher powers, no steps, no program other than what decide is useful for you.
www.lifering.org
no higher powers, no steps, no program other than what decide is useful for you.
www.lifering.org
luring sobriety this way with my lucky charm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: California
Posts: 738
Thank you everyone for your helpful input. I will respond more later. I feel especially tired today for some reason but I wanted to be honest about how I am thinking/feeling about recovery, and I am glad I did. I appreciate your responses and support.
luring sobriety this way with my lucky charm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: California
Posts: 738
I would like to report here that I have attended one Dharma Recovery meeting so far, which was a speaker meeting, and I plan to specifically attend some of their women's meetings. I also have located a potential mentor (sponsor) in the program who is local to me, which is exciting.
I also have done some reading from Dharma Recovery, and listened to a couple of podcasts from Refuge Recovery.
I have temporarily made peace with the conflict with my roommates, and have continued to communicate in some way with others instead of completely withdrawing.
I think I may have had some kind of small "breakthrough" in the past few days, as I dealt with some very painful underlying feelings totally sober and was able to cry and work through them and feel like I am moving forward.
I also have done some reading from Dharma Recovery, and listened to a couple of podcasts from Refuge Recovery.
I have temporarily made peace with the conflict with my roommates, and have continued to communicate in some way with others instead of completely withdrawing.
I think I may have had some kind of small "breakthrough" in the past few days, as I dealt with some very painful underlying feelings totally sober and was able to cry and work through them and feel like I am moving forward.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
Interesting thread, I can relate to a lot of your thoughts and I'm only now finally making peace with some of them. It's really a pointless internal debate to carry on but my opinion is the real alcoholic of which AA speaks is someone who was genetically predisposed to alcoholism, which is determined by a specific gene (and therefore makes it much more likely for some people to become addicted to alcohol than say opiates or gambling). They go through their disease in rapid progression, never knowing any other reality. So I'll even say there might be different types of alcoholics, and I can see how before the genetic aspect was understood scientifically the difference may appear to be entirely non-physical (spiritual?). Yet mentally and emotionally there is no difference. From what I can gather AA's opinion is that the program can only work if the member has reached end stage. Thus the suggestion to just keep drinking until things get bad enough for you to believe it or know for sure.
Make no mistake any alcoholic who continues drinking will eventually progress and/or reach end stage (as we're physically altering our body chemistry in irreversible ways), and I think we can do better than suggesting further self destruction as a solution. Or discouraging something that might work if the criteria for identification were a little less stringent.
I could never diagnose you but honestly I think you do meet a lot of the criteria. Such as you're here chronicling your journey on an addiction forum. You seem to have a strong emotional attachment to wine and the rituals you associate it with. You set drinking limits for yourself that you can't or don't consistently stick to.. I say that not to be mean but to hopefully help you see those descriptions might not apply to you yet, but you can still learn from other's experiences further down the line so you never have to go through it yourself.
Make no mistake any alcoholic who continues drinking will eventually progress and/or reach end stage (as we're physically altering our body chemistry in irreversible ways), and I think we can do better than suggesting further self destruction as a solution. Or discouraging something that might work if the criteria for identification were a little less stringent.
I could never diagnose you but honestly I think you do meet a lot of the criteria. Such as you're here chronicling your journey on an addiction forum. You seem to have a strong emotional attachment to wine and the rituals you associate it with. You set drinking limits for yourself that you can't or don't consistently stick to.. I say that not to be mean but to hopefully help you see those descriptions might not apply to you yet, but you can still learn from other's experiences further down the line so you never have to go through it yourself.
luring sobriety this way with my lucky charm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: California
Posts: 738
Okay let me correct myself - the program is called Recovery Dharma, not Dharma Recovery. I did attend a women's meeting yesterday and joined a related group for the women of RD. I also attended an hour long meditation and reflection meeting from a local yoga studio.
The cool thing about Recovery Dharma versus Refuge Recovery is that their book is free on-line, sort of like AA. I also don't really relate to the guy who started RR, as he was a life-long hardcore substance abuser from a sadly young age. He seems to have a real "presence" there as the leader, which I don't especially like. Recovery Dharma meeting leaders and mentors are volunteers who have been sober in the program longer, no one is "in charge" - there's no central figure. Refuge Recovery does have some informative and supportive podcasts, like I mentioned in my last post, but I feel pretty good about sticking with Recovery Dharma at the moment.
This feels a lot lighter to me. Something about AA bothered me on some fundamental level, and exploring a path that relies on Eastern philosophy feels like "me" it makes me want to stay sober, not to rebel.
The cool thing about Recovery Dharma versus Refuge Recovery is that their book is free on-line, sort of like AA. I also don't really relate to the guy who started RR, as he was a life-long hardcore substance abuser from a sadly young age. He seems to have a real "presence" there as the leader, which I don't especially like. Recovery Dharma meeting leaders and mentors are volunteers who have been sober in the program longer, no one is "in charge" - there's no central figure. Refuge Recovery does have some informative and supportive podcasts, like I mentioned in my last post, but I feel pretty good about sticking with Recovery Dharma at the moment.
This feels a lot lighter to me. Something about AA bothered me on some fundamental level, and exploring a path that relies on Eastern philosophy feels like "me" it makes me want to stay sober, not to rebel.
luring sobriety this way with my lucky charm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: California
Posts: 738
Originally Posted by Cosima11 
Interesting thread, I can relate to a lot of your thoughts and I'm only now finally making peace with some of them. It's really a pointless internal debate to carry on but my opinion is the real alcoholic of which AA speaks is someone who was genetically predisposed to alcoholism, which is determined by a specific gene (and therefore makes it much more likely for some people to become addicted to alcohol than say opiates or gambling). They go through their disease in rapid progression, never knowing any other reality. So I'll even say there might be different types of alcoholics, and I can see how before the genetic aspect was understood scientifically the difference may appear to be entirely non-physical (spiritual?). Yet mentally and emotionally there is no difference. From what I can gather AA's opinion is that the program can only work if the member has reached end stage. Thus the suggestion to just keep drinking until things get bad enough for you to believe it or know for sure.
Make no mistake any alcoholic who continues drinking will eventually progress and/or reach end stage (as we're physically altering our body chemistry in irreversible ways), and I think we can do better than suggesting further self destruction as a solution. Or discouraging something that might work if the criteria for identification were a little less stringent.
I could never diagnose you but honestly I think you do meet a lot of the criteria. Such as you're here chronicling your journey on an addiction forum. You seem to have a strong emotional attachment to wine and the rituals you associate it with. You set drinking limits for yourself that you can't or don't consistently stick to.. I say that not to be mean but to hopefully help you see those descriptions might not apply to you yet, but you can still learn from other's experiences further down the line so you never have to go through it yourself.
Make no mistake any alcoholic who continues drinking will eventually progress and/or reach end stage (as we're physically altering our body chemistry in irreversible ways), and I think we can do better than suggesting further self destruction as a solution. Or discouraging something that might work if the criteria for identification were a little less stringent.
I could never diagnose you but honestly I think you do meet a lot of the criteria. Such as you're here chronicling your journey on an addiction forum. You seem to have a strong emotional attachment to wine and the rituals you associate it with. You set drinking limits for yourself that you can't or don't consistently stick to.. I say that not to be mean but to hopefully help you see those descriptions might not apply to you yet, but you can still learn from other's experiences further down the line so you never have to go through it yourself.
Right. I totally see your point. And I know AA helps a lot of people. So does the Mormon church, but I'm not going to join it. AA helped my grandpa. My grandpa was one of my primary guardians and caregivers and heroes of my life (he never drank in my lifetime, he did AA and left it before I was ever born) but he was a typical conservative protestant Christian Republican. I know we aren't supposed to talk about politics here, but let's just say I got along with him less and less by the time I was in high school and became an adult.
I've also got the ability to give up things. I haven't had meat in five years. I never particularly liked meat though. But then let's move on to trying recreational drugs with my friends in my youth - I never got hooked, not even on weed. I live in the freaking Emerald Triangle and marijuana to me is an occasional treat, like having a piece of chocolate cake. I don't get the urge to smoke daily, weekly, or even monthly. In fact, I used to smoke cigarettes when I was young. I quit by myself by deciding they were disgusting and I was tired of having respiratory infections. That was over ten years ago. I can even take a drag off of someone's cigarette and not want to smoke half a pack a day again. I just am able to give up things when I decide I'm ready. I always have been. I don't know that I carry "the gene." All of my half-sisters still smoke cigarettes. If I have the gene, I look like the odd man out frankly, like it's recessive in me.
I know my drinking is a problem. But I specifically want wine. It's very psychological. And I have had licensed psychologists tell me I can only get to the root of my poor coping mechanism by stopping it six months, preferably a year, so I get distance from it. So I can examine it.
I don't want to drink right now. I see having at least a year sober as an adventure. But I had to see it that way, frame it that way, get to that point.
And I know I need support. Which is why I am going to the RD meetings and will temporarily be seeing my therapist one-on-one, once per week instead of every two weeks.
Thank you for your input. It's always nice to talk to someone who can relate.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
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I hear you, AA is religious at its core and I am not religious.. It will never be the right program for me, Eastern philosophies resonate much more with me as well. I guess I’m talking more about whether you feel you need to give up drinking temporarily or permanently.. I couldn’t or didn’t want to make a permanent commitment in the beginning either, but I knew eventually that was my goal.
I also don't have the gene and wasn't implying I think you do either. The gene(s) I'm talking about relate specifically to how alcohol is metabolized in the body, not to any other addictive habits or tendencies. The addiction cycle of emotional remorse, mental obsession, and physical compulsion can be experienced by anyone in various forms regardless of genetics.
I think it’s a great idea to take 6 months or a year and then re-evaluate how you feel about things then. It’s true the underlying issues and coping mechanisms can’t be addressed while drinking, but for an addict solving those issues won’t reverse or eliminate the addiction if you resume the behavior. Not solving them while sober can easily lead back to drinking, but the addiction and other issues or diagnosis's are separate beasts if that makes sense.
I also don't have the gene and wasn't implying I think you do either. The gene(s) I'm talking about relate specifically to how alcohol is metabolized in the body, not to any other addictive habits or tendencies. The addiction cycle of emotional remorse, mental obsession, and physical compulsion can be experienced by anyone in various forms regardless of genetics.
I think it’s a great idea to take 6 months or a year and then re-evaluate how you feel about things then. It’s true the underlying issues and coping mechanisms can’t be addressed while drinking, but for an addict solving those issues won’t reverse or eliminate the addiction if you resume the behavior. Not solving them while sober can easily lead back to drinking, but the addiction and other issues or diagnosis's are separate beasts if that makes sense.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
I never heard of Recovery Dharma before reading this thread, thanks for bringing up something new that looks quite interesting to me as well. I definitely prefer not to have a "guru aspect" in my recovery and long-term sobriety as I do not believe any one person is so powerful and competent that they have experienced and know it all. Part of the reason I like SMART was also that it has a simple philosophy and program, but the group facilitators are volunteers and it is quite unstructured. I think it is very important to choose support systems that are compatible with us. A good example for when it can get dysfunctional is being born into a dysfunctional family, not even necessarily dysfunctional by itself but not the right environment for who we are and/or want to become.
I agree on trying a year without drinking, other addictive drugs or behaviors. If you don't have an addiction and your drinking is more a bad coping mechanism, you may not have an issue committing and trying to see what happens. Even just observing how easy or hard it is, what exact things trigger you when you do not mask mood states, experiences or escape may be informative. 90 days may be informative as well, but if you have an ingrained complex of bad coping mechanisms, it is way too short IMO... especially right now when things are slowed down due to the pandemic quite a bit and most of us live in a bubble.
I agree on trying a year without drinking, other addictive drugs or behaviors. If you don't have an addiction and your drinking is more a bad coping mechanism, you may not have an issue committing and trying to see what happens. Even just observing how easy or hard it is, what exact things trigger you when you do not mask mood states, experiences or escape may be informative. 90 days may be informative as well, but if you have an ingrained complex of bad coping mechanisms, it is way too short IMO... especially right now when things are slowed down due to the pandemic quite a bit and most of us live in a bubble.
luring sobriety this way with my lucky charm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: California
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Thank you Cosima and Aellyce, I appreciate your posts here. I tried to "thank" both with the button, but I don't know if the forum will make those disappear when I refresh!
I feel that choosing the right program for me is very important because in other aspects of life, I easily leave groups if they don't fit me. Even if I tried to stick around, I wouldn't benefit from it as much, I would grow resentful, etc.
I do like the SMART tools, as well.
I feel like this is a great time for me to take this year off (at least a year) because I will be out of grad school in the coming academic year and because of the unusual situation with the pandemic. Some activists are calling this a "trigger moment" in that strange times like these, well it can produce an opportunity for real positive change in the world because it brings "business as usual" to a grinding halt, not just "trigger" people in terms of bad behaviors or poor coping mechanisms because of prior trauma, abuse, or etc.
I can feel myself already moving away mentally from old patterns, like I'm letting an "old self" drop away. I had been hanging on to this version of myself during some point in my time living in LA and throughout my years since I've moved north to a rural, forested area. The move alone wasn't enough to completely transform me. Maybe that is because so much else was changing in my life - my residence, living in the Pacific Northwest country instead of a Southwestern major city, all my relationships changed, my daily life changed due to being a full-time student again, I mean almost everything had changed - so maybe I was hanging on to old habits, old patterns, romanticizing even the ugly stuff (like binge drinking on wine) to have a continual sense of inner self through all the changes.
But now, I have this opportunity where I'm largely stuck at home most of the time, and have lived in the same place for a couple of years. I have this fresh start ahead of me, too. This seems powerful as a point in my life to work on the "inner self" and it would be a shame if I wasted it on repeating bad old habits.
I feel that choosing the right program for me is very important because in other aspects of life, I easily leave groups if they don't fit me. Even if I tried to stick around, I wouldn't benefit from it as much, I would grow resentful, etc.
I do like the SMART tools, as well.
I feel like this is a great time for me to take this year off (at least a year) because I will be out of grad school in the coming academic year and because of the unusual situation with the pandemic. Some activists are calling this a "trigger moment" in that strange times like these, well it can produce an opportunity for real positive change in the world because it brings "business as usual" to a grinding halt, not just "trigger" people in terms of bad behaviors or poor coping mechanisms because of prior trauma, abuse, or etc.
I can feel myself already moving away mentally from old patterns, like I'm letting an "old self" drop away. I had been hanging on to this version of myself during some point in my time living in LA and throughout my years since I've moved north to a rural, forested area. The move alone wasn't enough to completely transform me. Maybe that is because so much else was changing in my life - my residence, living in the Pacific Northwest country instead of a Southwestern major city, all my relationships changed, my daily life changed due to being a full-time student again, I mean almost everything had changed - so maybe I was hanging on to old habits, old patterns, romanticizing even the ugly stuff (like binge drinking on wine) to have a continual sense of inner self through all the changes.
But now, I have this opportunity where I'm largely stuck at home most of the time, and have lived in the same place for a couple of years. I have this fresh start ahead of me, too. This seems powerful as a point in my life to work on the "inner self" and it would be a shame if I wasted it on repeating bad old habits.
luring sobriety this way with my lucky charm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: California
Posts: 738
Today I attended my therapy appointment on-line as scheduled, and have another one next week. My therapist has the time/space to offer me the weekly appointments until I feel like it's unnecessary and we can go back to every two weeks instead. My insurance covers it, and I guess one of her other clients dropped out. I am really grateful to have that familiar one-to-one support.
Also I checked into future on-line meetings of RD, and am especially going to try to attend women's groups for now. I don't have anything against men, I just want to see how that goes for a while. I don't think I need a meeting every day - I'm not even a daily drinker at my worst, and my introversion makes daily meetings feel overwhelming anyway - but I want to know what my resources are on the days I really do need a meeting. I also want to plan to go more than once a week.
I've been sober for 10 days right now, which isn't extraordinary for me, but it is better than having a weekly binge. Also, any work I do on my sobriety on any day counts towards my future decisions and coping skills.
I attended 5 AA meetings on-line the first week. This second week so far I have attended 2 RD meetings, and the local yoga studio meditation meeting. I also have seen my therapist on-line each week. I think so far I am setting a good pattern, hopefully.
Also I checked into future on-line meetings of RD, and am especially going to try to attend women's groups for now. I don't have anything against men, I just want to see how that goes for a while. I don't think I need a meeting every day - I'm not even a daily drinker at my worst, and my introversion makes daily meetings feel overwhelming anyway - but I want to know what my resources are on the days I really do need a meeting. I also want to plan to go more than once a week.
I've been sober for 10 days right now, which isn't extraordinary for me, but it is better than having a weekly binge. Also, any work I do on my sobriety on any day counts towards my future decisions and coping skills.
I attended 5 AA meetings on-line the first week. This second week so far I have attended 2 RD meetings, and the local yoga studio meditation meeting. I also have seen my therapist on-line each week. I think so far I am setting a good pattern, hopefully.
luring sobriety this way with my lucky charm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2020
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I obtained some organic, dark concord, all-grape juice today to help if I have any "taste" cravings for wine. If you get the kind of pure purple grape juice that isn't mixed with apple juice to make it sweeter, it's tart and surprisingly a little dry. It's not a bad replacement at all. It's also a lot healthier. All of the benefits with none of the drawbacks.
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Sounds to me like you are doing great, BC. From my perspective, an important part of sobriety is for the person in recovery to forge a plan that works for him or her, which is what you're doing. We all choose a different path and you are doing well by defining your own. For me, I could never quite get over the religious component of AA, no matter how many times I was told I could choose my own higher power, and I never attended a single meeting. I did, though, create a detailed written recovery plan and followed it pretty closely for a good solid year. I found exercise, writing, and reading (often here) to be really important. You're doing great! Keep at it!
luring sobriety this way with my lucky charm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: California
Posts: 738
Thank you, soberandhonest! I am glad to hear your personal recovery plan really worked for you! I appreciate you sharing.
Ok - so today I encountered one of my "triggers." We are submitting our final curriculum and lesson plans and papers by today in my internship, and one of my peers included talking about climate change with older children (like middle school and up). I thought she did a good job and it was an important lesson plan. I am not being critical of her. It's just that when people talk about politicizing the science of climate change or denial of science, it really really bothers me. I don't mean to a point that I walked down to the store and contemplated buying a bottle, just that the thought came into my head to have a drink to "let it go."
That is my specific issue I'm addressing, in general, is to stop grabbing a drink (or 5, or 10) to deal with stress, bad feelings, or other problems. That is my real, underlying issue - not partying with friends necessarily or a daily habit.
So I am posting about it here. I am also going to focus on something constructive I can do instead of dwelling on things I can't change. Basically distracting myself from unpleasant thoughts, but even replacing it with something productive that I CAN do - no matter what that is. My therapist and I have discussed this at length - taking a break from social media, stop reading the news, and even how my major and concentrations in college are a constant reminder of stressful issues.
Well, I have deactivated my Facebook and will keep it that way for the first 90 days. I have not deleted my Twitter, but I am committing myself to stay away from it for at least 30 days. I am also reading the news every couple of days (I feel irresponsible and too curious if I completely ignore it) but not every single day - nothing is going to change that significantly in 24 hours that will directly affect me that fast, living in a rural area, unless it literally happens here. I also am making myself let go and just...watch a movie. Go to sleep. Take a walk.
Part of managing my drinking is managing my obsessive sense of "responsibility" over world events that I cannot control alone, and certainly not by posting on social media and worrying about it. If I am going to make a positive contribution to the world, I have to have my sanity and sobriety so that I can do real, constructive things. Worry and over-saturation of information is not constructive. Note to self.
Ok - so today I encountered one of my "triggers." We are submitting our final curriculum and lesson plans and papers by today in my internship, and one of my peers included talking about climate change with older children (like middle school and up). I thought she did a good job and it was an important lesson plan. I am not being critical of her. It's just that when people talk about politicizing the science of climate change or denial of science, it really really bothers me. I don't mean to a point that I walked down to the store and contemplated buying a bottle, just that the thought came into my head to have a drink to "let it go."
That is my specific issue I'm addressing, in general, is to stop grabbing a drink (or 5, or 10) to deal with stress, bad feelings, or other problems. That is my real, underlying issue - not partying with friends necessarily or a daily habit.
So I am posting about it here. I am also going to focus on something constructive I can do instead of dwelling on things I can't change. Basically distracting myself from unpleasant thoughts, but even replacing it with something productive that I CAN do - no matter what that is. My therapist and I have discussed this at length - taking a break from social media, stop reading the news, and even how my major and concentrations in college are a constant reminder of stressful issues.
Well, I have deactivated my Facebook and will keep it that way for the first 90 days. I have not deleted my Twitter, but I am committing myself to stay away from it for at least 30 days. I am also reading the news every couple of days (I feel irresponsible and too curious if I completely ignore it) but not every single day - nothing is going to change that significantly in 24 hours that will directly affect me that fast, living in a rural area, unless it literally happens here. I also am making myself let go and just...watch a movie. Go to sleep. Take a walk.
Part of managing my drinking is managing my obsessive sense of "responsibility" over world events that I cannot control alone, and certainly not by posting on social media and worrying about it. If I am going to make a positive contribution to the world, I have to have my sanity and sobriety so that I can do real, constructive things. Worry and over-saturation of information is not constructive. Note to self.
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You are definitely not alone in that you primarily turned to alcohol to address the problems that you perceived to exist in your life. Partying was never a major part of my problem, either. By the end of my drinking days, I turned to alcohol to address every emotion I felt. My team won a big game, I was happy, so I drank. I had a stressful day at work, I needed a drink to calm me down. I was sad - I drank. Bored - drink. On and on. As it progressed, the drinking itself caused so much emotional upheaval in my life that I had to drink earlier and earlier. The vicious cycle - drink fueling emotion causing drink fueling more emotion. Before long, a physical dependence developed, where I would wake up and immediately begin feeling the withdrawal symptoms (sweating, tremors). It was terrible.
But it can end well. I'm five years in to this thing and I have learned to deal with my emotions without substances. Better yet, I simply don't experience such massive emotional swings because a large part of that was alcohol induced. I still have plenty of anxiety - my work is stressful and, like you, I get very upset over politics and what's happening in this world - but nothing will take me back to drinking because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that one single drink will lead me back down a path of ruin. I have taken alcohol off the table as a possible tool for dealing with stress. Plus, I know that I have already overcome the biggest challenge of my life, so how bad can any of these other things be? I think you already know this, but I can reassure you that, for those of us who walked down the road of alcohol use disorder a ways, life is so much better without alcohol. In trying to address problems in my life I created a new one that was bigger, meaner, and deadlier than all of the others, and now I am free of that. I'm free of the dishonesty - both to myself and to those closest to me - that fits hand in glove with alcoholism. Plus, like an added bonus for ridding myself of booze, I get the nice little extra self-esteem boost of knowing that, when things are tough, I've already slayed a bigger dragon.
Keep going. You are doing well. I promise you that the benefits outweigh the negatives by a massively huge margin.
But it can end well. I'm five years in to this thing and I have learned to deal with my emotions without substances. Better yet, I simply don't experience such massive emotional swings because a large part of that was alcohol induced. I still have plenty of anxiety - my work is stressful and, like you, I get very upset over politics and what's happening in this world - but nothing will take me back to drinking because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that one single drink will lead me back down a path of ruin. I have taken alcohol off the table as a possible tool for dealing with stress. Plus, I know that I have already overcome the biggest challenge of my life, so how bad can any of these other things be? I think you already know this, but I can reassure you that, for those of us who walked down the road of alcohol use disorder a ways, life is so much better without alcohol. In trying to address problems in my life I created a new one that was bigger, meaner, and deadlier than all of the others, and now I am free of that. I'm free of the dishonesty - both to myself and to those closest to me - that fits hand in glove with alcoholism. Plus, like an added bonus for ridding myself of booze, I get the nice little extra self-esteem boost of knowing that, when things are tough, I've already slayed a bigger dragon.
Keep going. You are doing well. I promise you that the benefits outweigh the negatives by a massively huge margin.
luring sobriety this way with my lucky charm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: California
Posts: 738
Ok, I'm not trying to minimize anyone's struggle, but global climate change which could literally end humanity and my nation potentially being in a state of downfall due to irresponsible handling of a deadly pandemic actually is bigger than *my* drinking problem.
I know there are people with multiple drug use problems, and people who can't go a few hours without taking a drink or a puff to stabilize, and I feel very badly for those people. I agree their struggle is for life itself, just like people fighting for life on respirators for COVID-19. In the face of that, all else is unimportant.
However, I realize that anthropogenic climate change and its mishandling will actually make human beings extinct. We are already in the middle of the 6th mass extinction. There are climate scientists who have committed suicide because of the nefarious political agendas afoot that put sociopathic profit before human life. People are already dying because of climate change in developing countries and minority communities disproportionately.
My therapist, at least, is educated enough to understand that. I think I'm going to take a break from SR for a minute. No offense to anyone here, but really, not everything is magically solved this easily by handling just yourself.
I need to gather myself first, and speak with my therapist this week.
Thanks again, but I need a break.
I know there are people with multiple drug use problems, and people who can't go a few hours without taking a drink or a puff to stabilize, and I feel very badly for those people. I agree their struggle is for life itself, just like people fighting for life on respirators for COVID-19. In the face of that, all else is unimportant.
However, I realize that anthropogenic climate change and its mishandling will actually make human beings extinct. We are already in the middle of the 6th mass extinction. There are climate scientists who have committed suicide because of the nefarious political agendas afoot that put sociopathic profit before human life. People are already dying because of climate change in developing countries and minority communities disproportionately.
My therapist, at least, is educated enough to understand that. I think I'm going to take a break from SR for a minute. No offense to anyone here, but really, not everything is magically solved this easily by handling just yourself.
I need to gather myself first, and speak with my therapist this week.
Thanks again, but I need a break.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,444
There are always big problems,
For me, the thing is to be the best me I can be so that I can help contribute to answers for the worlds problems.
I understand needing a break but I don;t think it needs to be either/or.
I can be both sober and fully engaged in social welfare and social justice.
Hope your break helps
D
For me, the thing is to be the best me I can be so that I can help contribute to answers for the worlds problems.
I understand needing a break but I don;t think it needs to be either/or.
I can be both sober and fully engaged in social welfare and social justice.
Hope your break helps
D
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
BeckoningCat, I hope you don't mind me sharing what's probably too much information about myself.. there's only so much I can talk about in other threads without it being totally off topic, but just wanted to explain what I mean about being able to relate.
If alcohol were my only drug of choice, I might’ve had another 10-20 years of drinking before I needed to address it. But I sped up the progression with amphetamines (drastically raising my physical tolerance for alcohol to levels I couldn’t de-escalate or reverse) and trauma. I experienced trauma as an adult and took a nose dive off the cliff of already shaky ground. In the end alcohol is the one thing I couldn't let go of so I do consider myself an alcoholic, just probably not the traditional type. Am I resentful about the trauma and accelerated progression? At the end of the day no, because I can now live the rest of my life freely without being steered in any direction by my addiction(s).
I also found your earlier thoughts about the romance of alcohol in social settings relatable, since I had delusions about alcohol and socio-economic standing as well. Which were adopted at a young age as my step mom is a successful lawyer who glamorizes her drinking problem by believing her expensive taste in wine showcases her high level of class and status.. I grew up despising that notion actually but it was more powerful than I could've known, as I ended up working in fine dining for a time (completely oblivious that I was probably subconsciously still trying and failing to gain my dad and step-mom's approval) and letting that delusion feed my ego/inferiority complex.
Finally, I can relate to your deep-seated need to feel I'm a socially responsible, privileged savior/martyr of some kind. I haven't even begun unraveling that one, all I know is I used to feel a bit like that character in the Hunger Games who is always drunk.. drinking to commiserate with the horrors of abounding injustice all around. Can't join the elite and pretend it's not happening, can't exactly stop it single-handedly either. And definitely can't do anything about it drunk. I realized all I can do sometimes is to be the change I want to see in my own life.. checking out doesn't make any of the problems disappear, as it sounds like you already know.
If alcohol were my only drug of choice, I might’ve had another 10-20 years of drinking before I needed to address it. But I sped up the progression with amphetamines (drastically raising my physical tolerance for alcohol to levels I couldn’t de-escalate or reverse) and trauma. I experienced trauma as an adult and took a nose dive off the cliff of already shaky ground. In the end alcohol is the one thing I couldn't let go of so I do consider myself an alcoholic, just probably not the traditional type. Am I resentful about the trauma and accelerated progression? At the end of the day no, because I can now live the rest of my life freely without being steered in any direction by my addiction(s).
I also found your earlier thoughts about the romance of alcohol in social settings relatable, since I had delusions about alcohol and socio-economic standing as well. Which were adopted at a young age as my step mom is a successful lawyer who glamorizes her drinking problem by believing her expensive taste in wine showcases her high level of class and status.. I grew up despising that notion actually but it was more powerful than I could've known, as I ended up working in fine dining for a time (completely oblivious that I was probably subconsciously still trying and failing to gain my dad and step-mom's approval) and letting that delusion feed my ego/inferiority complex.
Finally, I can relate to your deep-seated need to feel I'm a socially responsible, privileged savior/martyr of some kind. I haven't even begun unraveling that one, all I know is I used to feel a bit like that character in the Hunger Games who is always drunk.. drinking to commiserate with the horrors of abounding injustice all around. Can't join the elite and pretend it's not happening, can't exactly stop it single-handedly either. And definitely can't do anything about it drunk. I realized all I can do sometimes is to be the change I want to see in my own life.. checking out doesn't make any of the problems disappear, as it sounds like you already know.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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I have a sometimes excessive sense of responsibility as well, which can at times create a lot of restlessness, guilt and strong opinions that are not always the best to express. Unfortunately, when I am not in a good place, it can also lead to hypocrisy. Mine mostly manifests in my professional life and in some of those "bigger problem areas" you bring up an example for, and that's where I tend to experience most of the anxiety as well. I don't care nearly as much in other areas such as personal relationships, for example... as I have always been more interested in those bigger questions. However, many of the big problems start with and are cultivated due to the personal problems of those with great power and influence.
It can get a bit too much at times, but I would not want to change these things about myself, even when I struggle and feel like a misfit in environments where many or most people are reckless and don't care about much but smaller goals. I like it also because it helped me greatly to resolve my biggest personal issue ever: the drinking problem. My alcoholism luckily never progressed to stages that involved major losses and devastation, but way too much wasted time and lots of missed opportunities due to my making the wrong choices "in the moment" to be able to drink "freely". I found the extremely unpleasant states of cognitive dissonance about my own alcoholic irresponsibility and bad life management very helpful because it often reached levels that were unbearable - I could no longer look in the mirror at myself with those behaviors. It gave me intense motivation for change because it felt so alien to my sense of self. It wasn't enough to achieve lasting sobriety and to develop discipline and coping mechanisms that I felt aligned and satisfied with, but it did help to eliminate the biggest culprit: my drinking. Once I stopped that, developing better discipline became far easier in every area... but it took a while and it's an ongoing process. Even if you are not addicted to alcohol, you can consider why drinking is necessary at all, given that you have recurring problems and doubts due to a binging pattern that lands you in a bad place at least mentally.
You mentioned "coping", but what are you coping with and/or escaping from using the bad methods? You know well that it is not really possible to escape the big problems of humanity and the world, and they will not be resolved in any easy way... or at all. There are areas where we won't likely to grow wiser or more resourceful - in part that's why history tends to repeat itself, both on the individual and global levels. It is very possible to escape negative specific influences and mates though even if it takes considerable effort and lifestyle changes. Including online. I personally think is a very good idea to moderate one's online engagements, especially with strangers we cannot really know how genuine they are, who they really are. I've learned this in the hard way, from years of compulsive virtual interactions that didn't better my life at all, more the opposite... it took my focus and energy away from more constructive relationships and needs. I absolutely think "social distancing" is a great idea if you feel something becomes excessive, is no longer helpful and it is triggering, not only physically and not only during a pandemic. But if the true motive is to distance yourself so that you can fully engage in some not-so-constructive "coping" without external judgment, then maybe it is not such a great idea. Only you know, everyone else will just speculate and give subjective suggestions based on what we know and/or project.
It can get a bit too much at times, but I would not want to change these things about myself, even when I struggle and feel like a misfit in environments where many or most people are reckless and don't care about much but smaller goals. I like it also because it helped me greatly to resolve my biggest personal issue ever: the drinking problem. My alcoholism luckily never progressed to stages that involved major losses and devastation, but way too much wasted time and lots of missed opportunities due to my making the wrong choices "in the moment" to be able to drink "freely". I found the extremely unpleasant states of cognitive dissonance about my own alcoholic irresponsibility and bad life management very helpful because it often reached levels that were unbearable - I could no longer look in the mirror at myself with those behaviors. It gave me intense motivation for change because it felt so alien to my sense of self. It wasn't enough to achieve lasting sobriety and to develop discipline and coping mechanisms that I felt aligned and satisfied with, but it did help to eliminate the biggest culprit: my drinking. Once I stopped that, developing better discipline became far easier in every area... but it took a while and it's an ongoing process. Even if you are not addicted to alcohol, you can consider why drinking is necessary at all, given that you have recurring problems and doubts due to a binging pattern that lands you in a bad place at least mentally.
You mentioned "coping", but what are you coping with and/or escaping from using the bad methods? You know well that it is not really possible to escape the big problems of humanity and the world, and they will not be resolved in any easy way... or at all. There are areas where we won't likely to grow wiser or more resourceful - in part that's why history tends to repeat itself, both on the individual and global levels. It is very possible to escape negative specific influences and mates though even if it takes considerable effort and lifestyle changes. Including online. I personally think is a very good idea to moderate one's online engagements, especially with strangers we cannot really know how genuine they are, who they really are. I've learned this in the hard way, from years of compulsive virtual interactions that didn't better my life at all, more the opposite... it took my focus and energy away from more constructive relationships and needs. I absolutely think "social distancing" is a great idea if you feel something becomes excessive, is no longer helpful and it is triggering, not only physically and not only during a pandemic. But if the true motive is to distance yourself so that you can fully engage in some not-so-constructive "coping" without external judgment, then maybe it is not such a great idea. Only you know, everyone else will just speculate and give subjective suggestions based on what we know and/or project.
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