Surgery & pain meds at 3+ yr sober
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Surgery & pain meds at 3+ yr sober
Morning all,
In the spirit of being honest - with myself, first - I want to share some of my experience with my back surgery recovery and use of pain meds....
From the last 1-12 hours.
It's 6:52 EST and I didn't sleep last night. Restlessness and mild pain turned to more discomfort, then coffee (bad habit I occasionally have that keeps me up when I really need to be asleep), then it was 10p then midnight and I kept thinking I would be able to go to bed.
I had a spinal fusion 5 wk ago tomorrow, and as planned with my awesome drs, have taken a gradual down-shift-ing plan of pain med. My policy has been to be completely honest with my drs in every area, and follow their instructions.
It wasn't until this morning that I admitted I was getting squirrelly. I have 1,322 days sober today and I just sent my husband to work with my prescriptions.
I am exhausted, and when I got in the shower I had a moment of clarity: I HAD to admit that I was likely to take more than I am prescribed today, more frequently, and/or lose track of my time and notes we have kept every day.
It wasn't exactly that I wanted to use too much, but I KNEW that that was odds on what would happen.
I say it all the time: whatever it takes, throw [ ] out, ask for help, tell on yourself. I literally stood in the shower and shook my alcoholic mind/self, and got out and did what I knew I had to do to be honest and catch myself.
I need to go to meetings, and I've known that for these 3 wks since I first was able to return- but I am uncomfortable sitting and other "reasons" I have had for not going. This is the least I have been to since I got sober, 3 or 4 in 5 wks -
And, for me, it has taken a toll.
This is all off the cuff, and just happened, and the sense of "right-ness" and frankly, relief, that I have that he and I discussed my having one of each med to take today, and we would discuss later....is huge.
I hold my breath when anxious, and that's been happening all night. I just let it out now. I know it will be OK - and I know that this girl can't play around, so to speak, "even" here at 3+ yr.
Take care of yourselves - and tell on yourself.
That's my $0.02+++ for this morning.
A
In the spirit of being honest - with myself, first - I want to share some of my experience with my back surgery recovery and use of pain meds....
From the last 1-12 hours.
It's 6:52 EST and I didn't sleep last night. Restlessness and mild pain turned to more discomfort, then coffee (bad habit I occasionally have that keeps me up when I really need to be asleep), then it was 10p then midnight and I kept thinking I would be able to go to bed.
I had a spinal fusion 5 wk ago tomorrow, and as planned with my awesome drs, have taken a gradual down-shift-ing plan of pain med. My policy has been to be completely honest with my drs in every area, and follow their instructions.
It wasn't until this morning that I admitted I was getting squirrelly. I have 1,322 days sober today and I just sent my husband to work with my prescriptions.
I am exhausted, and when I got in the shower I had a moment of clarity: I HAD to admit that I was likely to take more than I am prescribed today, more frequently, and/or lose track of my time and notes we have kept every day.
It wasn't exactly that I wanted to use too much, but I KNEW that that was odds on what would happen.
I say it all the time: whatever it takes, throw [ ] out, ask for help, tell on yourself. I literally stood in the shower and shook my alcoholic mind/self, and got out and did what I knew I had to do to be honest and catch myself.
I need to go to meetings, and I've known that for these 3 wks since I first was able to return- but I am uncomfortable sitting and other "reasons" I have had for not going. This is the least I have been to since I got sober, 3 or 4 in 5 wks -
And, for me, it has taken a toll.
This is all off the cuff, and just happened, and the sense of "right-ness" and frankly, relief, that I have that he and I discussed my having one of each med to take today, and we would discuss later....is huge.
I hold my breath when anxious, and that's been happening all night. I just let it out now. I know it will be OK - and I know that this girl can't play around, so to speak, "even" here at 3+ yr.
Take care of yourselves - and tell on yourself.
That's my $0.02+++ for this morning.
A
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Originally Posted by august252015 
it wasn't exactly that i wanted to use too much, but i knew that that was odds on what would happen.
I say it all the time: Whatever it takes, throw [ ] out, ask for help, tell on yourself. I literally stood in the shower and shook my alcoholic mind/self, and got out and did what i knew i had to do to be honest and catch myself.
I say it all the time: Whatever it takes, throw [ ] out, ask for help, tell on yourself. I literally stood in the shower and shook my alcoholic mind/self, and got out and did what i knew i had to do to be honest and catch myself.
I do hope you feel more comfortable and less exhausted soon, and that you’ll reap the benefit of surgery, after rehabilitation. Are there any small meetings which you could attend virtually, by conference call?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Colorado
Posts: 347
Pain medicines, benzos, sleeping pills, narcotic mental health treatments, anta-buse------all that kind of stuff scares the holy living hell out of me. I just don't know how I'd live with myself if I started using any of those things. I haven't taken them even when doctors offered them because I'm not confident I could resist their addictive nature. I never taken anything like them because their addictive characteristics scare me.
So far I've been healthy, so the worst I've been offered is percoset by the dentist, and something else I forget by the doctor, but I'm facing knee replacements sooner or later and I'm already wondering how I will handle the medicine. Everybody I've talked to says you need it for the pain, but I'm not liking that idea.
From where I stand now, I'd rather live with any amount of pain than take a chance with addiction. I don't know.
Maybe I could take the medicine and stop if I felt as if I were not using them correctly?????, but that scares me bad because it sounds and feels just like....you know...."I can have just a drink or two and I'll stop if it is catching up to me."
I'll say something else, when people say, "It's okay, the doctor prescribed it," I'm REALLY not liking that. Not for me. No. My doctor won't be living with the consequences if I make a bad decision, I will. It's my responsibility, not some doctor.
Reading your honest post makes me feel like I would be putting myself into some kind of danger zone I just don't want to be in. Yikes.
So far I've been healthy, so the worst I've been offered is percoset by the dentist, and something else I forget by the doctor, but I'm facing knee replacements sooner or later and I'm already wondering how I will handle the medicine. Everybody I've talked to says you need it for the pain, but I'm not liking that idea.
From where I stand now, I'd rather live with any amount of pain than take a chance with addiction. I don't know.
Maybe I could take the medicine and stop if I felt as if I were not using them correctly?????, but that scares me bad because it sounds and feels just like....you know...."I can have just a drink or two and I'll stop if it is catching up to me."
I'll say something else, when people say, "It's okay, the doctor prescribed it," I'm REALLY not liking that. Not for me. No. My doctor won't be living with the consequences if I make a bad decision, I will. It's my responsibility, not some doctor.
Reading your honest post makes me feel like I would be putting myself into some kind of danger zone I just don't want to be in. Yikes.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,514
August, do be kind to yourself, especially today. I'm sure you've had a lot of pain since your surgery 5 weeks ago. It sounds like you've managed very well, and good for you for being on top of things this morning.
I hope you continue to heal quickly.
I hope you continue to heal quickly.
Grateful
Join Date: May 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 1,763
August, you are smart to treat the pain meds as the "hot stove" that they are. At 5 weeks out I think the fact that you are still "wrestling" with them is a red flag. I only say that bold of a statement because pain meds is partly what took me down after 7 years sober (my 2nd long-term sobriety stint).
I had open heart surgery in March of 2004 to have a Ross Procedure (google it for more info, would take me too long to explain what the procedure entails). I had also had quite a bit of dental work done before the surgery (strongly suggested by my surgeon) where I got my first "taste" of opiates. I could feel the "tug" even from them, but it was a short-term regimen and then straight on to the heart surgery.
The surgery went well and I was following my post-op orders well, walking alot, but taking every dose of the opiates when they were due. I may have overdone the post-op routine a bit and I ended up with moderate pain in my sternum that needed follow-up. The CT scan showed that my sternum was healing slower than expected and that I might have some cartilage issues (costochondritis). I stayed on the opiates during this time and that was fine by me.
Very long story a bit shorter...I eventually had the staples removed from my sternum in October of 2004 (the staples often being the cause of costochondritis) 7 months after the initial surgery, and I had been on opiates most of that time with a couple breaks when I went through a regimen of steroids. After the surgery to remove the staples my surgeon gave me one more Rx for the opiates (with no refill) and said that was it and I should use them sparingly (I guess he was suspicious of my overuse of them as well).
Well when they ran out I started getting them by other means. At the time you could still get them from certain online pharmacies that were very lax in requiring a doctor's Rx or even had their own doctors to write the Rx. After a few months of doing that I knew I couldn't sustain my habit as they were getting harder to obtain and getting very expensive. It was at this point where I picked up a drink again, and that drink turned into an 8 year relapse that took me straight to hell.
There were a lot of other things going on as well that all contributed to me ending up with a drink in my hand, but I would say that the opiates were at the top of the list. When I had my 2nd surgery in 2011 I was honest with my surgeon about what had happened (was still drinking but stopped for a few weeks before the surgery and another few weeks after. From the day of the surgery until I took my last pain med was 10 days this time around, and 5 of those 10 days were when I was still in the hospital. Of course I started drinking again as soon as I felt well enough, and it was back to the races for 2 more years before I got sober for good.
I hope this rambling will help somehow, but seeing your post brought a flood of memories back on how my situation took me back to the drink. Honestly I was on fairly shaky ground anyway and my illness/surgery caused a lot of grief with my employer, which ultimately led to me being laid off due to my complications keeping me out beyond the FMLA time allotment. I also was not going to meetings and still had refused to work the steps. My "plan" for the last few years of sobriety before all this happened was to just not drink. And as usual...when the SHTF in life and my plan was "just don't drink", I ended up drinking.
I had open heart surgery in March of 2004 to have a Ross Procedure (google it for more info, would take me too long to explain what the procedure entails). I had also had quite a bit of dental work done before the surgery (strongly suggested by my surgeon) where I got my first "taste" of opiates. I could feel the "tug" even from them, but it was a short-term regimen and then straight on to the heart surgery.
The surgery went well and I was following my post-op orders well, walking alot, but taking every dose of the opiates when they were due. I may have overdone the post-op routine a bit and I ended up with moderate pain in my sternum that needed follow-up. The CT scan showed that my sternum was healing slower than expected and that I might have some cartilage issues (costochondritis). I stayed on the opiates during this time and that was fine by me.
Very long story a bit shorter...I eventually had the staples removed from my sternum in October of 2004 (the staples often being the cause of costochondritis) 7 months after the initial surgery, and I had been on opiates most of that time with a couple breaks when I went through a regimen of steroids. After the surgery to remove the staples my surgeon gave me one more Rx for the opiates (with no refill) and said that was it and I should use them sparingly (I guess he was suspicious of my overuse of them as well).
Well when they ran out I started getting them by other means. At the time you could still get them from certain online pharmacies that were very lax in requiring a doctor's Rx or even had their own doctors to write the Rx. After a few months of doing that I knew I couldn't sustain my habit as they were getting harder to obtain and getting very expensive. It was at this point where I picked up a drink again, and that drink turned into an 8 year relapse that took me straight to hell.
There were a lot of other things going on as well that all contributed to me ending up with a drink in my hand, but I would say that the opiates were at the top of the list. When I had my 2nd surgery in 2011 I was honest with my surgeon about what had happened (was still drinking but stopped for a few weeks before the surgery and another few weeks after. From the day of the surgery until I took my last pain med was 10 days this time around, and 5 of those 10 days were when I was still in the hospital. Of course I started drinking again as soon as I felt well enough, and it was back to the races for 2 more years before I got sober for good.
I hope this rambling will help somehow, but seeing your post brought a flood of memories back on how my situation took me back to the drink. Honestly I was on fairly shaky ground anyway and my illness/surgery caused a lot of grief with my employer, which ultimately led to me being laid off due to my complications keeping me out beyond the FMLA time allotment. I also was not going to meetings and still had refused to work the steps. My "plan" for the last few years of sobriety before all this happened was to just not drink. And as usual...when the SHTF in life and my plan was "just don't drink", I ended up drinking.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Hi August,
Are you taking the meds when you are in pain? Is your pain at least 4/10 before taking them?
Despite what is ordered, you may be taking them because you need them for pain, and if that is the case, your therapeutic dose isn’t necessarily exactly what the doctors have prescribed for you, and it may not align with the opioid taper you’d had planned with the doctors.
If you are taking them because you crave them, that needs to be addressed.
I was just wondering because you posted that you couldn’t sleep due to pain and restlessness. Even though you have an addiction history it’s still ok to treat legitimate pain. Tricky, though; and it does involve risk for an alcoholic.
Alcoholics as a rule will require higher doses than nonalcoholics who have the same level of pain. Cross tolerance is real. That may compound the difficulty of tapering.
I hope your pain lessens and you can manage to stop the pain medications soon.
My two cents is to carefully assess your pain each time you take the meds. Best wishes.
Are you taking the meds when you are in pain? Is your pain at least 4/10 before taking them?
Despite what is ordered, you may be taking them because you need them for pain, and if that is the case, your therapeutic dose isn’t necessarily exactly what the doctors have prescribed for you, and it may not align with the opioid taper you’d had planned with the doctors.
If you are taking them because you crave them, that needs to be addressed.
I was just wondering because you posted that you couldn’t sleep due to pain and restlessness. Even though you have an addiction history it’s still ok to treat legitimate pain. Tricky, though; and it does involve risk for an alcoholic.
Alcoholics as a rule will require higher doses than nonalcoholics who have the same level of pain. Cross tolerance is real. That may compound the difficulty of tapering.
I hope your pain lessens and you can manage to stop the pain medications soon.
My two cents is to carefully assess your pain each time you take the meds. Best wishes.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Gainesville, Fl
Posts: 435
Spinal fusion, ouch! Hope it heals well and properly. As a person who lives with chronic pain in the neck and back from 2 car accidents, I'm pretty scared of something like this in my future. Certainly makes me very thankful I have no addiction problems with opiates or the like.
Be well.
Be well.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
Hope you're doing well August,
Talking meds here can bring about a fear reaction and I understand that.
but...I also don't believe that we're meant to suffer just because of our history.
I resisted pain relief meds for a long time - I nearly lost my partner over it because I was a miserable SOB to live with.
So I was very open and honest with my doctor and we tried meds (along with a raft of other things I'm to try first like exercise and physio).
If all else fails, I'm on a low dose pain killer that til recently was available OTC.
Max dose is 8 a day - I've never taken more than 2 on any given day.
Never been high, never wanted to take more. If I did have that reaction, I'd do what you're doing, August.
As far as I can see, as a fellow traveller, you're doing everything right. August
D
Talking meds here can bring about a fear reaction and I understand that.
but...I also don't believe that we're meant to suffer just because of our history.
I resisted pain relief meds for a long time - I nearly lost my partner over it because I was a miserable SOB to live with.
So I was very open and honest with my doctor and we tried meds (along with a raft of other things I'm to try first like exercise and physio).
If all else fails, I'm on a low dose pain killer that til recently was available OTC.
Max dose is 8 a day - I've never taken more than 2 on any given day.
Never been high, never wanted to take more. If I did have that reaction, I'd do what you're doing, August.
As far as I can see, as a fellow traveller, you're doing everything right. August
D
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
August, i think it’s a really fine line.
i had a spinal laminectomy in 2009 and was freaked about the pain relief. the nurses kept telling me i wasn’t using enough of the iv morphine drip. i was clear with them that i am a sober alcoholic and that i was concerned about potentially getting addicted.
one of them finally explained that the med will “just go to the pain part in the brain”(okay, it was explained better than that, but that is the gist of it) as long as there is a fair amount of pain.
they also told me i might be developing something like pain pathways that would stay if i didn’t combat the pain sufficiently.
i went home with hydromorphone pills, and asked how on earth i would know just when to stop.
i was told that there would come a time where i would take a pill i did not really need, and that i would experience it differently from pain relief.
which is exactly what happened.
i felt achey and decided to take one and whoa...got kinda dizzy, a bit like being drunk, just kinda sickening, really, and i knew with absolute certainty that this was the pill that “went somewhere else other than the pain centre”.
i’m just writing all this out to encourage you to go and discuss with your gp and maybe surgeon even about the level of pain, and how you would know if the dosage is right or needs adjusting or...
i applaud you for being so self-aware and diligent in your monitoring; i get it. but there is other stuff to consider, and if you cannot sleep because of pain, you may need to re-evaluate together with a medical person.
i had a spinal laminectomy in 2009 and was freaked about the pain relief. the nurses kept telling me i wasn’t using enough of the iv morphine drip. i was clear with them that i am a sober alcoholic and that i was concerned about potentially getting addicted.
one of them finally explained that the med will “just go to the pain part in the brain”(okay, it was explained better than that, but that is the gist of it) as long as there is a fair amount of pain.
they also told me i might be developing something like pain pathways that would stay if i didn’t combat the pain sufficiently.
i went home with hydromorphone pills, and asked how on earth i would know just when to stop.
i was told that there would come a time where i would take a pill i did not really need, and that i would experience it differently from pain relief.
which is exactly what happened.
i felt achey and decided to take one and whoa...got kinda dizzy, a bit like being drunk, just kinda sickening, really, and i knew with absolute certainty that this was the pill that “went somewhere else other than the pain centre”.
i’m just writing all this out to encourage you to go and discuss with your gp and maybe surgeon even about the level of pain, and how you would know if the dosage is right or needs adjusting or...
i applaud you for being so self-aware and diligent in your monitoring; i get it. but there is other stuff to consider, and if you cannot sleep because of pain, you may need to re-evaluate together with a medical person.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 732
It's so difficult - after my first detox I vowed to steer clear of any prescription painkillers, but then I had a neck injury that required lots of metalwork to be put in. The pain was so bad I took every painkiller thrown at me because I just couldn't bear the pain, and yes it led to a relapse with alcohol I'm convinced of that.
I had a lot of pain recently because of my smooshed sternum from the chest compressions I (thankfully) had, and the doctors were very understanding of my fear of strong pain relief. They advised take the simple stuff but regularly and thankfully that worked. It's easy to swear off strong painkillers but when you're in pain you will do almost anything for some relief. Hope you feel better soon, hopefully five weeks in you should be improving - if not then maybe consult the surgeon?
I had a lot of pain recently because of my smooshed sternum from the chest compressions I (thankfully) had, and the doctors were very understanding of my fear of strong pain relief. They advised take the simple stuff but regularly and thankfully that worked. It's easy to swear off strong painkillers but when you're in pain you will do almost anything for some relief. Hope you feel better soon, hopefully five weeks in you should be improving - if not then maybe consult the surgeon?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
So grateful for every single comment. I don't share a lot about current things and struggles, maybe (not sure how it comes across tho!), and this is huge.
I'm fine - better-pacing myself. And now have to blow dry my hair which tells y'all I will be OK
I am going to return in a bit to respond to some of the specific posts (like CR - I knew you were being thoughtful and kind and honest too - no worries). I'm taking it easy on "social media" today because I still have a lingering headache and my eyes need their glasses.
Thank you. So much.
I'm fine - better-pacing myself. And now have to blow dry my hair which tells y'all I will be OK
I am going to return in a bit to respond to some of the specific posts (like CR - I knew you were being thoughtful and kind and honest too - no worries). I'm taking it easy on "social media" today because I still have a lingering headache and my eyes need their glasses.
Thank you. So much.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Hey all - just a few morning notes. My headache has fluctuated but persists (thru hydration and good small meals yesterday, and minimal caffeine - no coffee, that might never happen again!). Screen time was minimal and will be again today.
I'm processing all aspects of what happened. The great suggestions like have friend come over for a meeting- did that once and it was indeed a good idea. Most of my communication has been text which is usual and good. I will start back at my restaurant recovery group mtgs on Mon - the plan was for others to handle the 2x a wk for Sep, so it's on track. First AA meeting on Tu am; plans for re-engage each day next wk. That totally sounds like my newcomer posts - which is such a great reminder that at ANY point in time, basics are the best bet.
Sharing with my mom who is also in recovery, and moreso with my husband .... the scary parts and the "just physical" parts has helped. It will be in more pieces, certainly. Thu night was an extreme process that reminded me of some of my worst early nights - I did feel at one point I might need to go to the hospital as it was 2 hr before my anxiety diminished and breath regulated thru exercises plus the other various things, when I got in the bed about 630. Things improved as the night and sleep came, and it will be ok.
The culmination of factors is simply not something I can handle. No sleep plus self-imposed dehydration that leads to awful stomach and nausea issues and no eating...the mental obsession with [not alcohol but the same feelings]...searing reminders.
Lessons and a God experience for me. Appreciate all of you.
I'm processing all aspects of what happened. The great suggestions like have friend come over for a meeting- did that once and it was indeed a good idea. Most of my communication has been text which is usual and good. I will start back at my restaurant recovery group mtgs on Mon - the plan was for others to handle the 2x a wk for Sep, so it's on track. First AA meeting on Tu am; plans for re-engage each day next wk. That totally sounds like my newcomer posts - which is such a great reminder that at ANY point in time, basics are the best bet.
Sharing with my mom who is also in recovery, and moreso with my husband .... the scary parts and the "just physical" parts has helped. It will be in more pieces, certainly. Thu night was an extreme process that reminded me of some of my worst early nights - I did feel at one point I might need to go to the hospital as it was 2 hr before my anxiety diminished and breath regulated thru exercises plus the other various things, when I got in the bed about 630. Things improved as the night and sleep came, and it will be ok.
The culmination of factors is simply not something I can handle. No sleep plus self-imposed dehydration that leads to awful stomach and nausea issues and no eating...the mental obsession with [not alcohol but the same feelings]...searing reminders.
Lessons and a God experience for me. Appreciate all of you.
Member
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,602
Sorry to hear that you are going through a tough time, August. Sounds very unpleasant indeed. It's a true God send that you have a husband who is zoned in to all of this stuff the way that a "normie" could never be. I'm sure you'll use "best practice", as they say, (not that I know myself exactly what that is but you seem to have a lot of that figured out!) to navigate your way through to equilibrium quickly.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Anytime I've ever been laid up after a surgery or with injuries it has been very hard for me to maintain an even keel emotionally. I have to move, it gets out the nervous energy.
I hope you can return to good self care as much as possible. I wouldn't pick this time to go off caffeine! That always gives me excruciating headaches.
It's a lot to process a major surgery.
Keepa go. Good thoughts and prayers coming at you from the opposite corner of the U.S.
I hope you can return to good self care as much as possible. I wouldn't pick this time to go off caffeine! That always gives me excruciating headaches.
It's a lot to process a major surgery.
Keepa go. Good thoughts and prayers coming at you from the opposite corner of the U.S.
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