Why "sober me" goes to the liquor store...
Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by Obladi 
Sober me doesn't go to the liquor store, alcoholic me does.
There comes a time of day sometimes long before, sometimes moments before, when I give up and let alcoholic me take the wheel so to speak. She doesn't think about tomorrow (unless it's sure to include drinking). She doesn't care about the reactions of other people (unless they might impede her drinking). She just wants to drink.
I think the key is to not ever let go of my true self; the one who is not purely addict but so much more.
There comes a time of day sometimes long before, sometimes moments before, when I give up and let alcoholic me take the wheel so to speak. She doesn't think about tomorrow (unless it's sure to include drinking). She doesn't care about the reactions of other people (unless they might impede her drinking). She just wants to drink.
I think the key is to not ever let go of my true self; the one who is not purely addict but so much more.
Sober since October 24, 1997
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Otero County, New Mexico
Posts: 108
I wonder if anyone has done any studies on right brain-left brain cooperation on becoming sober. Both parts of your brain have to attain sobriety to maintain total sobriety. Why would anyone in their right mind who has been sober for awhile suddenly walk into a liquor store, buy some booze, and blow it big time by getting drunk? Possible because when they walked into the liquor store they were in their "LEFT MIND"! A big clue is the intoxicated behavior is radically different than sober behavior, possibly indicating being under partial control of the other brain hemisphere. I'm not a neuropsychologist, but I've followed cases of damage to the corpus callosum where brain function becomes "partitioned" like computers can be partitioned, and the body as well as some thought processes come under control of what are essentially two brains. Alcohol is well known for affecting brain function, and it very well could affect the corpus callosum's ability to coordinate data processing between the two sides of the brain. The rational thoughtful side of the brain may become sober, but the other amoral hedonistic side may not. No proof, just an idea backed up by casual observations I've made of certain behaviors for over half a century.
The opposite of addiction is connection.
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 373
Originally Posted by Radix
For me it's like this:
1. Something happens and I remember the "good" part of alcohol, which is that I can capture a much happier mood in about 10 easy minutes.
2. Once I remember that I can capture that mood, then the idea of not capturing it awakens a really uncomfortable mix of emotions: anxiety, longing, depression, unfairness, impatience. This is what I think a craving is.
3. It feels at this point like the only thing that will make the craving end is making a decision to drink. That's the beginning of the sober self detouring into the liquor store. Note that the time between #2 and #3 can only be a few seconds long.
4. Then I remember all the down sides to drinking: the fact that the gentle happiness fades as one drink invariably turns into 10, the shame at relapsing, the self-hatred for the lack of self-control, the blackouts, the hangovers, the being out of control, the mess. The rational mind starts "playing the tape forward."
5. Now the AV is speaking up loud and clear, presenting me with all the rationalizations and enabling that it does. Anything to prevent that horrible, icky feeling of the craving.
So that's how the sober self detours into the liquor store, IMHO. The process above can be kind of pre-conscious, meaning it can happen really fast, without spending too much time thinking about it. That's why the AVRT works so well for me: it gets me to slow down, to listen to the rationalizations my AV is making, and to counter them with my resolve to not drink, knowing that drinking comes at too high a price to bear.
I'm new to recovery, but the big breakthrough for me was realizing that the craving is temporary. In just a few moments, those icky feelings go away, and then I can walk on past the store without going in. I can tell the AV to shut up, because it's wrong that the only thing that will make the feelings go away is the decision to drink. That's a lie. The feelings do go away without drinking.
That's how I see it. Others' experiences will obviously be different.
1. Something happens and I remember the "good" part of alcohol, which is that I can capture a much happier mood in about 10 easy minutes.
2. Once I remember that I can capture that mood, then the idea of not capturing it awakens a really uncomfortable mix of emotions: anxiety, longing, depression, unfairness, impatience. This is what I think a craving is.
3. It feels at this point like the only thing that will make the craving end is making a decision to drink. That's the beginning of the sober self detouring into the liquor store. Note that the time between #2 and #3 can only be a few seconds long.
4. Then I remember all the down sides to drinking: the fact that the gentle happiness fades as one drink invariably turns into 10, the shame at relapsing, the self-hatred for the lack of self-control, the blackouts, the hangovers, the being out of control, the mess. The rational mind starts "playing the tape forward."
5. Now the AV is speaking up loud and clear, presenting me with all the rationalizations and enabling that it does. Anything to prevent that horrible, icky feeling of the craving.
So that's how the sober self detours into the liquor store, IMHO. The process above can be kind of pre-conscious, meaning it can happen really fast, without spending too much time thinking about it. That's why the AVRT works so well for me: it gets me to slow down, to listen to the rationalizations my AV is making, and to counter them with my resolve to not drink, knowing that drinking comes at too high a price to bear.
I'm new to recovery, but the big breakthrough for me was realizing that the craving is temporary. In just a few moments, those icky feelings go away, and then I can walk on past the store without going in. I can tell the AV to shut up, because it's wrong that the only thing that will make the feelings go away is the decision to drink. That's a lie. The feelings do go away without drinking.
That's how I see it. Others' experiences will obviously be different.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 278
Thanks to all who found my post above helpful.
Here are some further reflections. I think that the sober self walks into the liquor store for two reasons, each of which can happen in isolation or together in combination with each other.
1. Craving
2. Rationalization
By craving, I mean that process where one recalls the euphoria that alcohol brings, and then feels the opposite--a really bad dysphoria--that comes with the thought of not drinking. A craving is really an emotion. It's that very nasty sense of displeasure that comes from knowing you can get high and then knowing that you won't get high. I remember one summer day when I was about 7 years old, my dad promised me a specific new toy that I really wanted. We were driving home from somewhere and he said that we could stop by the toy store on the way home, and I he would buy me the toy I wanted so much. I was elated. But the thing is, it was late in the day, and we got to the toy store just after it closed. We were only something like 5 minutes late, but they had already locked the doors. I was crushed, knowing I couldn't get the toy until maybe the next day. That for me is craving: the knowledge that you can get high, but your efforts are somehow thwarted, either by your own willpower or by externalities (like not having any money or being in rehab). When I was heartbroken standing outside of the toy store, I wanted my dad to call the police to make them open it up again, so powerful was that awful feeling of knowing that something wonderful is just outside of my grasp. But craving is an emotion, and emotions change. By dinnertime that same night, my 7-year-old self had gone on to think of other things and I wasn't obsessed with the toy anymore. And my adult self can watch a craving for alcohol come and go. For me, the real game-changer was noticing just how temporary cravings are.
The other side of the coin is rationalization, which is where the AV tells you lies about drinking or using: it will be fine, it's not a problem, just this once it will be okay, I can handle this without creating any problems, it'll be fun. Usually for me it's a brief "this will be fun" without a long chain of other thoughts. It's not that I actively refute point-by-point all the realities, dismissing each one as untrue. Instead, it's just "this will be fun" without much other thinking. And that's why the technique of playing the tape forward is so effective: it makes me focus on a long, reality-based list of the problems that drinking will cause.
Craving and rationalization. Either one alone is enough to get the sober self in the liquor store, but they can both happen at the same time as well, a double whammy.
Here are some further reflections. I think that the sober self walks into the liquor store for two reasons, each of which can happen in isolation or together in combination with each other.
1. Craving
2. Rationalization
By craving, I mean that process where one recalls the euphoria that alcohol brings, and then feels the opposite--a really bad dysphoria--that comes with the thought of not drinking. A craving is really an emotion. It's that very nasty sense of displeasure that comes from knowing you can get high and then knowing that you won't get high. I remember one summer day when I was about 7 years old, my dad promised me a specific new toy that I really wanted. We were driving home from somewhere and he said that we could stop by the toy store on the way home, and I he would buy me the toy I wanted so much. I was elated. But the thing is, it was late in the day, and we got to the toy store just after it closed. We were only something like 5 minutes late, but they had already locked the doors. I was crushed, knowing I couldn't get the toy until maybe the next day. That for me is craving: the knowledge that you can get high, but your efforts are somehow thwarted, either by your own willpower or by externalities (like not having any money or being in rehab). When I was heartbroken standing outside of the toy store, I wanted my dad to call the police to make them open it up again, so powerful was that awful feeling of knowing that something wonderful is just outside of my grasp. But craving is an emotion, and emotions change. By dinnertime that same night, my 7-year-old self had gone on to think of other things and I wasn't obsessed with the toy anymore. And my adult self can watch a craving for alcohol come and go. For me, the real game-changer was noticing just how temporary cravings are.
The other side of the coin is rationalization, which is where the AV tells you lies about drinking or using: it will be fine, it's not a problem, just this once it will be okay, I can handle this without creating any problems, it'll be fun. Usually for me it's a brief "this will be fun" without a long chain of other thoughts. It's not that I actively refute point-by-point all the realities, dismissing each one as untrue. Instead, it's just "this will be fun" without much other thinking. And that's why the technique of playing the tape forward is so effective: it makes me focus on a long, reality-based list of the problems that drinking will cause.
Craving and rationalization. Either one alone is enough to get the sober self in the liquor store, but they can both happen at the same time as well, a double whammy.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 74
What helps me is to follow the thought all the way.
Example-
AV says “you should drink because: xyz. It’ll be cool. Maybe it’ll be different and you can just have a 6 pack. You deserve it. You’ve been sober for awhile so you can now control you intake. Blah blah blah”
Emotional Brain says “oh cool yea that sounds good. That makes sense. I do deserve it and it will be different this time!”
Rational side kicks in “yea right lol. You know a 6 pack might happen once or twice. You might even be able to pull off multiple times of responsible drinking but you know it’s only a matter of time before it all goes back to the old song and dance. So slow your roll there.
Plus sleeping is fun, hangovers suck and waking up with a racing heart and sweaty isn’t cool. Not to mention the regret and extra anxiety.”
It was a journey to get there but now I can step back when needed and give the rational side time to kick in. It won’t be different. It’s never different. As mentioned previously, I also finally hit the cost/benefit threshold and just threw in the towel.
Example-
AV says “you should drink because: xyz. It’ll be cool. Maybe it’ll be different and you can just have a 6 pack. You deserve it. You’ve been sober for awhile so you can now control you intake. Blah blah blah”
Emotional Brain says “oh cool yea that sounds good. That makes sense. I do deserve it and it will be different this time!”
Rational side kicks in “yea right lol. You know a 6 pack might happen once or twice. You might even be able to pull off multiple times of responsible drinking but you know it’s only a matter of time before it all goes back to the old song and dance. So slow your roll there.
Plus sleeping is fun, hangovers suck and waking up with a racing heart and sweaty isn’t cool. Not to mention the regret and extra anxiety.”
It was a journey to get there but now I can step back when needed and give the rational side time to kick in. It won’t be different. It’s never different. As mentioned previously, I also finally hit the cost/benefit threshold and just threw in the towel.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
That belief, unshakeable belief that "it won't be different" has to be there.
Most people convince themselves they can moderate. They can just do a six pack. A night. A weekend. The summer. Then get right back to sobriety.
In other words, they are convincing themselves they are not alcoholics. Because alcoholics have to stay sober or its disease, jail or death.I
Alcoholics have to make a long term commitment.
Most people convince themselves they can moderate. They can just do a six pack. A night. A weekend. The summer. Then get right back to sobriety.
In other words, they are convincing themselves they are not alcoholics. Because alcoholics have to stay sober or its disease, jail or death.I
Alcoholics have to make a long term commitment.
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