Why "sober me" goes to the liquor store...
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by Gottalife 
"page 24" The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink."
something only a complete psychic change- with great assistance for an HP, would help.
So I'm wondering... what is everyone's response to this question: why and how does sober you go to the liquor store when I think we all know (since we are on this site) that drinking is a terrible idea?
thats what i did with untreated alcoholism.
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,981
Originally Posted by Porcetta
Correct ! It's counter intuative..... a process of disempowerment.
"You will never truly get over something as long as you consider IT to be superior to you, and you powerless before IT. This belief weakens you before the very thing that you need to be strong against".
"You will never truly get over something as long as you consider IT to be superior to you, and you powerless before IT. This belief weakens you before the very thing that you need to be strong against".
You may be in the early days of saving grace, but booze will turn on you, and become your worst nightmare. You will fight and fight and fight trying to make booze "work" again, but it's like walking into a boxing match getting yourself destroyed over and over again.
It takes a real person to wave the white flag and realize you will never "win" against this monster, though plenty have a nice gravestone above them trying.
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Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,065
It was funny, (to me), I was bidding by phone at a horse auction. I got a text from a friend there, the equipment I wanted was next lot, so I called the bid takers, got through, pulled into the first parking lot I saw. It was the liquor store. I finished my call, don't want to take a chance of the call dropping, and pulled out. A year ago I would have grabbed wine to celebrate or drown my sorrows over the loss. I lost the bidding. 
a year ago I would have just made it til Dh got home and then poured myself the time and after supper went into my office scouring the net to buy this equipment. It would become an obsession, just as drink was.
It unnerved me when grocers first started carrying booze. Fortunately the ones that do around here charge too much for their produce, the majority of which isn't local. It took a few sober weeks to not want to steer the car to the liquor store at first. However, now it is a funny coincidence I pulled in to make a call. Funny only to me because I know what it took to get here.
Playing the tape forward and sober muscles. Those two things kept me straight so I could get my head on straight.
a year ago I would have just made it til Dh got home and then poured myself the time and after supper went into my office scouring the net to buy this equipment. It would become an obsession, just as drink was. It unnerved me when grocers first started carrying booze. Fortunately the ones that do around here charge too much for their produce, the majority of which isn't local. It took a few sober weeks to not want to steer the car to the liquor store at first. However, now it is a funny coincidence I pulled in to make a call. Funny only to me because I know what it took to get here.
Playing the tape forward and sober muscles. Those two things kept me straight so I could get my head on straight.
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In Scotts stead, let me remind folks of the rules.
These threads work best when we share our experience of what worked best for us, rather than our opinions of other peoples methods.
If you can't share your experience without taking a jab at another method, maybe it's best push your chair back, get up and leave posting for now until you can.
Dee
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SR
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No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
If you can't share your experience without taking a jab at another method, maybe it's best push your chair back, get up and leave posting for now until you can.
Dee
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
I support ANY METHOD that gets people sober.
It's very important to focus on the sober part. If what you tried got you sober, it was worth it.
And if what you tried led to drinking again, you have to try something else.
This is a very, very dangerous and terrifying disease. It's a little concerning how that can get overlooked in the arguments for and against the methods.
It's very important to focus on the sober part. If what you tried got you sober, it was worth it.
And if what you tried led to drinking again, you have to try something else.
This is a very, very dangerous and terrifying disease. It's a little concerning how that can get overlooked in the arguments for and against the methods.
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 539
My husband was anti AA as he struggled to find sobriety. Full of arguments why that method could NEVER work for him, why it did not make sense for someone smart and intelligent like himself...it was cult like...etc.
After trying different ways to manage his drinking, quit drinking...he was successful with none other than AA! He stopped going to meetings regularly around year 2. He is 8 years sober now.
I am down with any method that works for you but I don't think picking apart a program has any productive end. When I hear that, I can't help but say in my head...I think thou dost protest too much!
After trying different ways to manage his drinking, quit drinking...he was successful with none other than AA! He stopped going to meetings regularly around year 2. He is 8 years sober now.
I am down with any method that works for you but I don't think picking apart a program has any productive end. When I hear that, I can't help but say in my head...I think thou dost protest too much!
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Join Date: Jan 2015
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Originally Posted by Forward12
It takes a real person to wave the white flag and realize you will never "win" against this monster, though plenty have a nice gravestone above them trying.
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Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Stockport/Greater Manchester/Cheshire
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Originally Posted by Radix
For me it's like this:
1. Something happens and I remember the "good" part of alcohol, which is that I can capture a much happier mood in about 10 easy minutes.
2. Once I remember that I can capture that mood, then the idea of not capturing it awakens a really uncomfortable mix of emotions: anxiety, longing, depression, unfairness, impatience. This is what I think a craving is.
3. It feels at this point like the only thing that will make the craving end is making a decision to drink. That's the beginning of the sober self detouring into the liquor store. Note that the time between #2 and #3 can only be a few seconds long.
4. Then I remember all the down sides to drinking: the fact that the gentle happiness fades as one drink invariably turns into 10, the shame at relapsing, the self-hatred for the lack of self-control, the blackouts, the hangovers, the being out of control, the mess. The rational mind starts "playing the tape forward."
5. Now the AV is speaking up loud and clear, presenting me with all the rationalizations and enabling that it does. Anything to prevent that horrible, icky feeling of the craving.
So that's how the sober self detours into the liquor store, IMHO. The process above can be kind of pre-conscious, meaning it can happen really fast, without spending too much time thinking about it. That's why the AVRT works so well for me: it gets me to slow down, to listen to the rationalizations my AV is making, and to counter them with my resolve to not drink, knowing that drinking comes at too high a price to bear.
I'm new to recovery, but the big breakthrough for me was realizing that the craving is temporary. In just a few moments, those icky feelings go away, and then I can walk on past the store without going in. I can tell the AV to shut up, because it's wrong that the only thing that will make the feelings go away is the decision to drink. That's a lie. The feelings do go away without drinking.
That's how I see it. Others' experiences will obviously be different.
1. Something happens and I remember the "good" part of alcohol, which is that I can capture a much happier mood in about 10 easy minutes.
2. Once I remember that I can capture that mood, then the idea of not capturing it awakens a really uncomfortable mix of emotions: anxiety, longing, depression, unfairness, impatience. This is what I think a craving is.
3. It feels at this point like the only thing that will make the craving end is making a decision to drink. That's the beginning of the sober self detouring into the liquor store. Note that the time between #2 and #3 can only be a few seconds long.
4. Then I remember all the down sides to drinking: the fact that the gentle happiness fades as one drink invariably turns into 10, the shame at relapsing, the self-hatred for the lack of self-control, the blackouts, the hangovers, the being out of control, the mess. The rational mind starts "playing the tape forward."
5. Now the AV is speaking up loud and clear, presenting me with all the rationalizations and enabling that it does. Anything to prevent that horrible, icky feeling of the craving.
So that's how the sober self detours into the liquor store, IMHO. The process above can be kind of pre-conscious, meaning it can happen really fast, without spending too much time thinking about it. That's why the AVRT works so well for me: it gets me to slow down, to listen to the rationalizations my AV is making, and to counter them with my resolve to not drink, knowing that drinking comes at too high a price to bear.
I'm new to recovery, but the big breakthrough for me was realizing that the craving is temporary. In just a few moments, those icky feelings go away, and then I can walk on past the store without going in. I can tell the AV to shut up, because it's wrong that the only thing that will make the feelings go away is the decision to drink. That's a lie. The feelings do go away without drinking.
That's how I see it. Others' experiences will obviously be different.
Well explained, thanks.
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Just to be clear for some of you guys: there's nothing in this thread topic that necessitates it be about competing methods.
Lets get back to helping the OP with personal experience.
Dee
Moderator
SR
Lets get back to helping the OP with personal experience.
Dee
Moderator
SR
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Sober me doesn't go to the liquor store, alcoholic me does.
There comes a time of day sometimes long before, sometimes moments before, when I give up and let alcoholic me take the wheel so to speak. She doesn't think about tomorrow (unless it's sure to include drinking). She doesn't care about the reactions of other people (unless they might impede her drinking). She just wants to drink.
I think the key is to not ever let go of my true self; the one who is not purely addict but so much more.
There comes a time of day sometimes long before, sometimes moments before, when I give up and let alcoholic me take the wheel so to speak. She doesn't think about tomorrow (unless it's sure to include drinking). She doesn't care about the reactions of other people (unless they might impede her drinking). She just wants to drink.
I think the key is to not ever let go of my true self; the one who is not purely addict but so much more.
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 1,121
Originally Posted by Radix
For me it's like this:
1. Something happens and I remember the "good" part of alcohol, which is that I can capture a much happier mood in about 10 easy minutes.
2. Once I remember that I can capture that mood, then the idea of not capturing it awakens a really uncomfortable mix of emotions: anxiety, longing, depression, unfairness, impatience. This is what I think a craving is.
3. It feels at this point like the only thing that will make the craving end is making a decision to drink. That's the beginning of the sober self detouring into the liquor store. Note that the time between #2 and #3 can only be a few seconds long.
4. Then I remember all the down sides to drinking: the fact that the gentle happiness fades as one drink invariably turns into 10, the shame at relapsing, the self-hatred for the lack of self-control, the blackouts, the hangovers, the being out of control, the mess. The rational mind starts "playing the tape forward."
5. Now the AV is speaking up loud and clear, presenting me with all the rationalizations and enabling that it does. Anything to prevent that horrible, icky feeling of the craving.
So that's how the sober self detours into the liquor store, IMHO. The process above can be kind of pre-conscious, meaning it can happen really fast, without spending too much time thinking about it. That's why the AVRT works so well for me: it gets me to slow down, to listen to the rationalizations my AV is making, and to counter them with my resolve to not drink, knowing that drinking comes at too high a price to bear.
1. Something happens and I remember the "good" part of alcohol, which is that I can capture a much happier mood in about 10 easy minutes.
2. Once I remember that I can capture that mood, then the idea of not capturing it awakens a really uncomfortable mix of emotions: anxiety, longing, depression, unfairness, impatience. This is what I think a craving is.
3. It feels at this point like the only thing that will make the craving end is making a decision to drink. That's the beginning of the sober self detouring into the liquor store. Note that the time between #2 and #3 can only be a few seconds long.
4. Then I remember all the down sides to drinking: the fact that the gentle happiness fades as one drink invariably turns into 10, the shame at relapsing, the self-hatred for the lack of self-control, the blackouts, the hangovers, the being out of control, the mess. The rational mind starts "playing the tape forward."
5. Now the AV is speaking up loud and clear, presenting me with all the rationalizations and enabling that it does. Anything to prevent that horrible, icky feeling of the craving.
So that's how the sober self detours into the liquor store, IMHO. The process above can be kind of pre-conscious, meaning it can happen really fast, without spending too much time thinking about it. That's why the AVRT works so well for me: it gets me to slow down, to listen to the rationalizations my AV is making, and to counter them with my resolve to not drink, knowing that drinking comes at too high a price to bear.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Originally Posted by Obladi
Sober me doesn't go to the liquor store, alcoholic me does.
There comes a time of day sometimes long before, sometimes moments before, when I give up and let alcoholic me take the wheel so to speak. She doesn't think about tomorrow (unless it's sure to include drinking). She doesn't care about the reactions of other people (unless they might impede her drinking). She just wants to drink.
I think the key is to not ever let go of my true self; the one who is not purely addict but so much more.
There comes a time of day sometimes long before, sometimes moments before, when I give up and let alcoholic me take the wheel so to speak. She doesn't think about tomorrow (unless it's sure to include drinking). She doesn't care about the reactions of other people (unless they might impede her drinking). She just wants to drink.
I think the key is to not ever let go of my true self; the one who is not purely addict but so much more.
She'll keep popping up if you don't make sure she is gone. any hint of her has to be banished, she'll try to sneak in.
I dealt with it a lot early on, weird little thoughts that freaked me out because I knew they were precursors to alcoholic sassy taking over.
By the time a thought is a craving, there should be alarm bells going off.
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Originally Posted by VigilanceNow
Hi everyone. I was having a conversation with my boyfriend after a relapse a bit ago, and I'm wondering if anyone can share any thoughts on this subject.
It's well-established that I am one of those people who turns into a completely different person while under the influence; e.g. saying things I don't actually think/believe, doing things I would never otherwise do, and just generally forgetting everything about what I consider makes me, me. My boyfriend had the misfortune to witness this relapse after knowing I had been a long while sober, and he just could not comprehend why a sober me would walk into a liquor store, take money out, and purchase a bottle that I know is going to lead to disaster.
I don't understand it either. It's almost like an out-of-body experience; I'm telling myself this is a bad idea, and yet it's as if once the idea enters my mind, I can't think of anything else until I get some booze. I tried to explain the concept of AV to him, and he basically dismissed it as a copout and stupid excuse. I wasn't trying to justify it, but rather offer an explanation. I still haven't nailed down what exactly my triggers are, because to be honest when I was actively drinking all the time, there didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to when I would do it.
So I'm wondering... what is everyone's response to this question: why and how does sober you go to the liquor store when I think we all know (since we are on this site) that drinking is a terrible idea? Any suggestions on how I can explain this to him without sounding like I'm trying to justify this action/make excuses for myself?
Thanks!!
It's well-established that I am one of those people who turns into a completely different person while under the influence; e.g. saying things I don't actually think/believe, doing things I would never otherwise do, and just generally forgetting everything about what I consider makes me, me. My boyfriend had the misfortune to witness this relapse after knowing I had been a long while sober, and he just could not comprehend why a sober me would walk into a liquor store, take money out, and purchase a bottle that I know is going to lead to disaster.
I don't understand it either. It's almost like an out-of-body experience; I'm telling myself this is a bad idea, and yet it's as if once the idea enters my mind, I can't think of anything else until I get some booze. I tried to explain the concept of AV to him, and he basically dismissed it as a copout and stupid excuse. I wasn't trying to justify it, but rather offer an explanation. I still haven't nailed down what exactly my triggers are, because to be honest when I was actively drinking all the time, there didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to when I would do it.
So I'm wondering... what is everyone's response to this question: why and how does sober you go to the liquor store when I think we all know (since we are on this site) that drinking is a terrible idea? Any suggestions on how I can explain this to him without sounding like I'm trying to justify this action/make excuses for myself?
Thanks!!
But 7:00 pm. would roll around and I was drinking again. I knew it wasn't a good idea so why did I do it?
Simply put: I hadn't had enough. I hadn't yet reached a point where I wanted to stop.
Yes, my life was a mess and it had been for a good ten years straight but I couldn't comprehend total abstinence.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Originally Posted by Ken33xx
Simply put: I hadn't had enough. I hadn't yet reached a point where I wanted to stop.
.
I was on another forum and I was slipping every few months and someone said "maybe you have more drinking to do."
I did. But I really, really wish I could have avoided getting to the point where all the benefit was gone because whats left of a drinking life is horrifying at that point.
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,775
Originally Posted by Stayingsassy
It's not the most positive way of looking at it, but when I look at my life ten years ago I know why I didn't quit permanently. Even with the misery and life drag heavy drinking gave me, it hadn't quite hit the right ratio of cost to benefit.
I was on another forum and I was slipping every few months and someone said "maybe you have more drinking to do."
I did. But I really, really wish I could have avoided getting to the point where all the benefit was gone because whats left of a drinking life is horrifying at that point.
I was on another forum and I was slipping every few months and someone said "maybe you have more drinking to do."
I did. But I really, really wish I could have avoided getting to the point where all the benefit was gone because whats left of a drinking life is horrifying at that point.
However, on the other side because I played the drink out I am under no illusions I can do so safely.
I don't have nagging doubts that maybe this time things will be different.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Originally Posted by Ken33xx
I look at it two ways: On one the one side I wish I could have gotten sober in my early 20's.
However, on the other side because I played the drink out I am under no illusions I can do so safely.
I don't have nagging doubts that maybe this time things will be different.
However, on the other side because I played the drink out I am under no illusions I can do so safely.
I don't have nagging doubts that maybe this time things will be different.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: California
Posts: 534
My friend in rehab asked me if I've been to a liquor store since I went outpatient. I realized it never even occurred to me, even for a water or soda. Too dangerous right now.
I think at some point I'll be able to go in without being tempted but I have to guard myself from temptation in an way I can at this point.
I think at some point I'll be able to go in without being tempted but I have to guard myself from temptation in an way I can at this point.
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