bliss

[QUOTE=Music]I have to disagree here. I would say there's nothing about the ALCOHOLIC that makes any sense but the one sure thing about the disease that makes perfect sense to me is that the only way I can arrest it is by not drinking.

I am sorry if you misunderstood my post, I did not make myself clear I guess. What you have stated above is exactly what I am trying to say.

When I said the part about recovery may not make sense I meant that it may seem logical to others but to the alcoholic it is not so apparent. I believe it is a step in the process that an alcoholic reaches and it can only be encouraged by the alcoholic. Not by loved ones who want you to get better.

Cadence57

That is exactly it. It's a contradiction when you see someone who is so incredibly intelligent, well read, and creative... who absolutely can not see that his life spiraling out of control.
To those of us who haven't walked in those shoes, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Cadence57

Well Dan, he sounds a lot like you. He's hinted at using alcohol to to numb his feelings (he had a pretty horrific childhood - both parents drink heavily and his step dad was very abusive). Like you he has become void of emotion -- and drinking will tend to either make him VERY loving (the more he drank, the prettier I got ) or VERY nasty and belligerent. I've never seen him get horrific but I can imagine him getting pretty bad.

I'm not sure how he feels about his drinking - it's the one subject he just won't talk about. I imagine it's akin to touching a fire, to him... afraid to get too close for fear of being hurt.

This thread has been an enormous insight for me. I truly hope I've not hurt anyone, as that was not my intention at all... Reading the experiences and thoughts from those of you who HAVE been there/done that is invaluable to those of us who love someone who is in active addicion, and who are trying to understand.

Dan

Addiction doesn't discriminate.
I can quote you Tolstoy or Descartes, write an arrangement for guitar and mandolin. Walk a beach at sunset and be inspired to write a poem.
I can also get to a place where all that will matter is where my next drink or hit is going to come from, and whether or not you're going to get in my way.
I started to recover when I stopped trying to make sense of it all I think.
Don't even try to imagine what it's like to walk in those shoes.
There's no patent answer.

Don S

We all make decisions that don't necessarily reflect a rational analysis of the risks, costs, and benefits. For example, I cannot imagine why anyone in this day and age would smoke cigarettes.
Don S

Cadence57

Ha! Me neither but...there it is -- go figure... Here I am, puffing away. Yep, it's an addiction and I am powerless over it. My cigarettes have a firm grasp on me - my heart and lungs in particular... I'm almost "there" - that place where I know I'm going to quit. I've got my "Smoke Away" sitting on the desk, daring me to quit and I love a challenge!

DesertEyes

Heya Marti :-)

Sorry I came in to this thread so late, been sick in bed last few days :-(

You're absolutely right. When you get down to the nitty gritty, each person is going to have a different opinion. An addiction is not something you can measure and put a number on, so there's no way that you are going to get beyond a very vauge and "foggy" intellectual understanding.

What you _can_ get is an _emotional_ understanding. I think, from reading this thread, that you have already reached your own emotional understanding. For me, giving other people the dignity to make their own choices in life, even if they are stupid choices, is a part of my own "emotional understanding". Some things in life I just can't change, no matter now bad I want to.

Hope you have a great time with your girls and Laz :-)

Mike :-)

Cadence57

Hiya Mike

Sorry to hear you were not well - glad you're feeling better though.
I have gained an emotional understanding. I doubt I'll ever understand it on an intellectual level, but I also know I'm not alone in that regard. It's all part and parcel with comprehending the fact that I can't MAKE him change. I guess getting it straight from the proverbial horse's mouth really has helped a lot to drive the point home.

"Dignity to make their own choices." I never thought of it in those terms... taking away someone's dignity by trying to force them to make a choice (preferrably the one I want them to make, of course!). That sheds a new light on things - a different perspective. Well, the mistakes have been made and no doubt, he feels stripped of his dignity and pride after some of the things I have said to him. I can't undo that but I doubt I'll make the same mistake again - not when I've had it explained in terms of dignity... that's something I an relate to.

Thanks, I had a great day with the girls. We didn't go out to the farm to see Laz, but we had a good time.

DesertEyes

Thank you, thank you :-)

hmmm... I dunno.... The way it works for me is that if I have all the relevant information, and I _still_ make the wrong decision then it's a mistake. However, if I am lacking information, or have incorrect information, then wrong decisions are _not_ a mistake, they're just an accident.

I know I'm an alkie, so if I drink or dope up then it's a mistake and I will have all manner of consequences to deal with. I had no possible way of knowing that my marriage would end up where it has, I know I did my very best for it, so it's current collapse is nobody's fault, just an accident of life.

I am not to blame for accidents. Those are just the pitfalls of living life to the fullest.

You go! girl :-)

Mike :-)