Making right with the past
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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I dont know a good answer here zen. I never bothred with ammends I was just going to let my example be proof enough i was seriously done with all of that. i mean wtf good is an apology without that backing it up?
BUT
one day i dunno i think i was sober 3 years. I got to thinking if i'd tolerate out of my wife the same nonsense she tolerated out of me for all those years. that was a really hard question for me to answer and that scared me. at this point I realized i had to make ammends by addressing it head on rather then jsut letting my example suffice. In my case I wrote her a letter and we had a talk etc. .it worked out ok she even mentioned how she was thinking of leaving me at that time too EEEEPS. I didnt really realize she was so ticked off about it but heck she should have probably left a lot sooner!
But with my kids its diff. my oldest 2 remember those days and I've never made ammends with them over it. In my case i feel theres no need really. But I've noticed that i dont seem to have the bonds with them that i have with my younger ones. I'm not sure why best i can figure is maybe i had my head in a bottle too much and didnt give them much attention tho I feel i was still a fairly good father despite my crap. But it is what it is. Will i ever resolve it? i dunno things are sorta sour with my oldest i struggle to connect. the next one down its not so bad.
But on a side note when i got sober one thing i had to deal with to some degree was my child hood abuse issues from my mom and step father. I no longer spoke to my step father sand still dont and want nothing to do with him so theres not much i can really do there. but with my mother I cut her off then I raked her over the coals for the abuse which she tried to deny but then she came clean and agreed she was out of line. I was fine with that and we get along fine now. It was a difficult process more so for her then for me I guess but i wanted some kind of a resolution and I think i got one and i'm happy with it.
That being said maybe ask your kids how they feel about those years and so on. Maybe they will open up some and tell you something your not thinking of then you can let that sink in and address those specific issues with them head on etc.. Just opening up some dialog about it and so on.
Maybe they dont really care so much and you care more then they do but maybe going through this process will help you be at ease about it?
moving forward just be ag ood mom and look out for em etc.. Dont smother the m either lol. some moms can be over bearing on there boys etc.. But i dunno most boys realy love there moms so they probably like it to some degree etc..
there was a time i was really open with my mom and we where like best friends it was good. Hopefully youc an get to that level of communication with them then you wont have to wonder about ammends or if there ok with you and so on you'll just know.
BUT
one day i dunno i think i was sober 3 years. I got to thinking if i'd tolerate out of my wife the same nonsense she tolerated out of me for all those years. that was a really hard question for me to answer and that scared me. at this point I realized i had to make ammends by addressing it head on rather then jsut letting my example suffice. In my case I wrote her a letter and we had a talk etc. .it worked out ok she even mentioned how she was thinking of leaving me at that time too EEEEPS. I didnt really realize she was so ticked off about it but heck she should have probably left a lot sooner!
But with my kids its diff. my oldest 2 remember those days and I've never made ammends with them over it. In my case i feel theres no need really. But I've noticed that i dont seem to have the bonds with them that i have with my younger ones. I'm not sure why best i can figure is maybe i had my head in a bottle too much and didnt give them much attention tho I feel i was still a fairly good father despite my crap. But it is what it is. Will i ever resolve it? i dunno things are sorta sour with my oldest i struggle to connect. the next one down its not so bad.
But on a side note when i got sober one thing i had to deal with to some degree was my child hood abuse issues from my mom and step father. I no longer spoke to my step father sand still dont and want nothing to do with him so theres not much i can really do there. but with my mother I cut her off then I raked her over the coals for the abuse which she tried to deny but then she came clean and agreed she was out of line. I was fine with that and we get along fine now. It was a difficult process more so for her then for me I guess but i wanted some kind of a resolution and I think i got one and i'm happy with it.
That being said maybe ask your kids how they feel about those years and so on. Maybe they will open up some and tell you something your not thinking of then you can let that sink in and address those specific issues with them head on etc.. Just opening up some dialog about it and so on.
Maybe they dont really care so much and you care more then they do but maybe going through this process will help you be at ease about it?
moving forward just be ag ood mom and look out for em etc.. Dont smother the m either lol. some moms can be over bearing on there boys etc.. But i dunno most boys realy love there moms so they probably like it to some degree etc..
there was a time i was really open with my mom and we where like best friends it was good. Hopefully youc an get to that level of communication with them then you wont have to wonder about ammends or if there ok with you and so on you'll just know.
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Yeah, kids are pretty resilient and forgiving, especially of their mother's and I was never a mean drunk. Mostly what I wanted was for them to go away so I could drink, isn't that awful? The message was always, go play, go do something else. And there were a few years when we were chronically late for school because I would have a hard time waking up due to hangovers so I'd be rushing them and short tempered with them even though it certainly wasn't their faults. I wasn't plugged into the school work, it was enough that they weren't failing. I just generally wasn't my best self, how could I be drinking the way I was? I'd been through a lot when my drinking really picked, left an abusive marriage, been through the horror of my sister's baby dying, was in a dead end job that I hated, being really lonely as a single mother and feeling the weight of all that responsibility. I just didn't cope with it well and I got lost. I wanted to stop, I tried, I couldn't. Some mornings I would wake up and think if I had a gun I would shoot myself in the face. Other times I would think that drinking was the only thing I had that brought me any real pleasure. I dunno, it was crazy, I was sick. Now that I've come out of it, I'm looking around thinking wow it was really bad and I was doing some crazy justifying and minimizing just to be able to live with myself. Some nights my boys would hear me crying when they were in bed and come downstairs worried and try to comfort me...... I think there was awhile there where I was close to having a total nervous breakdown. Those were really important years where my boys needs should have been coming first and I wasn't up for the task.
Oh well, there's nothing to be done about it now. I can't undo what's happened. All I can do is move forward and do my best to make it up to them. They are away with their dad right now in Europe so I'm really missing them too. When they come home I'm going to find an appropriate time and talk to them about how they feel and see what else I can do to heal our family. I worry too that I've modeled this bad behaviour the way my parents did and that they will end up turning to drugs and alcohol. I really don't want that for them. I've already had the conversation about drugs because with all this fentanyl being mixed into drugs it's a really dangerous time to be experimenting. It's not like when I was a teenager, kids today are literally taking their lives in their hands by trying drugs. It's really scary.
Oh well, there's nothing to be done about it now. I can't undo what's happened. All I can do is move forward and do my best to make it up to them. They are away with their dad right now in Europe so I'm really missing them too. When they come home I'm going to find an appropriate time and talk to them about how they feel and see what else I can do to heal our family. I worry too that I've modeled this bad behaviour the way my parents did and that they will end up turning to drugs and alcohol. I really don't want that for them. I've already had the conversation about drugs because with all this fentanyl being mixed into drugs it's a really dangerous time to be experimenting. It's not like when I was a teenager, kids today are literally taking their lives in their hands by trying drugs. It's really scary.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
For what it's worth I think you've done a good job and being a single parent is far from easy. You gotta go easy on yourself I would bet money you where doing the best you could under the circumstances and with the cards you had been dealt. We can be our own worst critics.
I know you want your kids to forgive you but you have forgive you too.
You doing good now making good choices your not that person from your past and your making life better.
I know you want your kids to forgive you but you have forgive you too.
You doing good now making good choices your not that person from your past and your making life better.
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
So I had a talk with my boys and they said they just want me to stay quit. My oldest says he would like to have a session with me in counseling to get deeper into it. My youngest honestly doesn't seem that affected, he's like, whatever mom, it's fine. But my older guy who's more of a serious deep thinker was def more bothered by my drinking, he's the one who was calling me out on it. I think it caused him shame to see me like that. He just looked me straight in the eye and asked me to never do it again. I told him, done.
I think I stopped in time to still be able to have them remember more of me being sober than not. Memories of childhood are sharper from like 12 and up, I think anyway, at least mine are. Not that that makes what I've done ok, but it's something.
I've got my own counseling starting again on Tues. I can't get past this feeling that I've cheated myself out of years of my life, totally sold myself and my family short, just wasted years. I'm really mad at myself over it. Like how could I have allowed this to have gone on for so long? I feel so stupid. I've never been sober like this, not since I was a child myself. I didn't understand what I was missing or how good it could be.
I'm thinking of that quote by Maya Angelou,
“I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better.”
I think I stopped in time to still be able to have them remember more of me being sober than not. Memories of childhood are sharper from like 12 and up, I think anyway, at least mine are. Not that that makes what I've done ok, but it's something.
I've got my own counseling starting again on Tues. I can't get past this feeling that I've cheated myself out of years of my life, totally sold myself and my family short, just wasted years. I'm really mad at myself over it. Like how could I have allowed this to have gone on for so long? I feel so stupid. I've never been sober like this, not since I was a child myself. I didn't understand what I was missing or how good it could be.
I'm thinking of that quote by Maya Angelou,
“I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better.”
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,246
I so admire your determination to recover and heal the past. It is so painful. I have only started this journey and it can be overwhelming to face the mother I have been.
Your openness with your children - your honesty and strength will be an enduring learning experience for them. It doesn't erase the past, but from it an understanding and resilience can grow in them. They will know life can be tough but they will also know that things can change for the better.
Support to you.
Your openness with your children - your honesty and strength will be an enduring learning experience for them. It doesn't erase the past, but from it an understanding and resilience can grow in them. They will know life can be tough but they will also know that things can change for the better.
Support to you.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
He just looked me straight in the eye and asked me to never do it again. I told him, done.
yeah i felt like i wasted many years. and see for me what was crap was I felt like my child hood was trashed and stolen from me and then i moved ont o drinking my brains out and ruined all those years. now i'm appraoching 40 and i think i might have some of that midlife bs going down too so i'mlike great I got one foot in the grave and wtf have i dont with myself thus far? ::facepalm::
BUT BUT
Do i regret the drinking years. I dunno. It was on one hand some of hte stupid crap i coulda ever done. But on the other hand some of the best things in my lif ehave come from that. All those years of crap but i woudl not be here today to help someone else out had i not gone through it. I would not have learned a lot of stuff had i not gone thoguht it.
Remember you can grow some of the prettiest flowers from lots of POOOO!!
I see this in my garden each day i use ions of chicken crap and i have the nicest veggies and so on.
I suppose it just depends on how you want to look at it.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
on a side note in my situation. i dont think i really caused any harm to my oldest ones with my antics.
I think where my situation gets goofy is how i intereact with my oldest ones. I think my social skills are just not right and are slowly coming around. But maybe its all normal there int here teen years and this is just how it is I dunno.
I think where my situation gets goofy is how i intereact with my oldest ones. I think my social skills are just not right and are slowly coming around. But maybe its all normal there int here teen years and this is just how it is I dunno.
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
So we just had a pretty cool afternoon. I live right by a nature reserve on the lake and I know a secluded little beach in a bay, it's a nice spot where we can still see the city. Toronto is a beautiful city. Perfect spot to experience the eclipse because we could watch how the wildlife reacted. Anyways, the subject came up again and we had a good open talk. I know I made mistakes but I did a lot of things right too. I think I have a bad habit of being too hard on myself. They're good kids, both bright, funny, compassionate and kind. I need to let this guilt go. I guess it's that I really love them so it causes me pain to think that I could have harmed them. Self forgiveness is a process and I'll get there. It's not like I can just flip a switch and poof be totally ok with what's lead me here. These last 6 months are the first time I've lived my life as a sober person since I was 14, I think it would be abnormal if I wasn't considering these things.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: England
Posts: 92
I don't think I hurt many if any people with my drinking, apart from annoying/upsetting my gf and now wife. It was more self destruction after heavy binge drinking that caused my problems. I try to learn from my past to understand who I am now and why I did the things I did.
The best way IMO to apologise and be better for other people is just be the best that you can be and stay sober or at least show you are trying your damnedest to stay so. Actions speak louder than words. It's like anything in life, the more people talk and do nothing, the more annoyed and unforgiving people become.
The best way IMO to apologise and be better for other people is just be the best that you can be and stay sober or at least show you are trying your damnedest to stay so. Actions speak louder than words. It's like anything in life, the more people talk and do nothing, the more annoyed and unforgiving people become.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Hi Zen,
I most definitely impacted my kids in a negative way. They are all adults now and each raged with good reason. The youngest still does. Fortunately the older ones have grown into compassion and are very supportive of me. Even so, I think amends are due to every one of them. I don't feel "mature enough" to know exactly how to do that yet, but I DO feel that understanding where my behavior came from (sober and drunk) is part of the key.
You'll remember that Robby Robot contended that RR and AA were not mutually exclusive. Having gone down both paths now, I enthusiastically agree. You know that RR is simply and only about quitting. Trimpey quite explicitly offers no promise that your life will improve. If you have a lick of spirituality (or the willingness to believe that you may be able to have that), I'd suggest trying AA out. Or try it another time if you already have. And remember that all meetings are not created equally helpful - same thing as therapists, in my book.
I am astounded to be writing this because I resisted AA tooth and nail for literally a decade. But here I am.
AAs are fond of saying, "Don't leave before the miracle happens." I'm stuck on Step 3 and have been there for quite some time, nonetheless something is changing because of the synthesis of many factors of my life.
You sound like a great mom; it's good that you are working on giving yourself a break over your human fallibility.
O
I most definitely impacted my kids in a negative way. They are all adults now and each raged with good reason. The youngest still does. Fortunately the older ones have grown into compassion and are very supportive of me. Even so, I think amends are due to every one of them. I don't feel "mature enough" to know exactly how to do that yet, but I DO feel that understanding where my behavior came from (sober and drunk) is part of the key.
You'll remember that Robby Robot contended that RR and AA were not mutually exclusive. Having gone down both paths now, I enthusiastically agree. You know that RR is simply and only about quitting. Trimpey quite explicitly offers no promise that your life will improve. If you have a lick of spirituality (or the willingness to believe that you may be able to have that), I'd suggest trying AA out. Or try it another time if you already have. And remember that all meetings are not created equally helpful - same thing as therapists, in my book.
I am astounded to be writing this because I resisted AA tooth and nail for literally a decade. But here I am.
AAs are fond of saying, "Don't leave before the miracle happens." I'm stuck on Step 3 and have been there for quite some time, nonetheless something is changing because of the synthesis of many factors of my life.
You sound like a great mom; it's good that you are working on giving yourself a break over your human fallibility.
O
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
Hi Obladi,
I would disagree that AA and RR can work together. The backbone of AA is that after the steps a miracle happens and the desire to drink is removed by this higher power. RR says that the desire to drink is a sign of a healthy brain and the idea is not to remove the desire but to stay sober despite it. It wouldn't make sense for me to take the steps since I don't believe the desire can be totally removed, I believe it can fade and lose its urgency, but it's with me for life.
However, I still plan to make an amends to whomever I believe I need to because it's the right thing to do. I need to be able to live with myself and I want to be healthy and whole and happy. I don't want to be haunted by my past and to carry guilt around with me. My children are first because they are the most important to me and I am responsible for who they will turn out to be. I have others though who I know I hurt. I had a big mouth when I drank and I've said some things that I wish I could take back. I've also shirked responsibilities and commitments I needed to keep because I was too sick to get it together. I want to be a stand up person going forward and part of that is going to mean leveling with myself and others about how I used to behave. I want to be able to say that sure I f*cked up but I did what I had to do to make it right and I learned from it and it will never happen again. That's how I will be able to forgive myself.
I would disagree that AA and RR can work together. The backbone of AA is that after the steps a miracle happens and the desire to drink is removed by this higher power. RR says that the desire to drink is a sign of a healthy brain and the idea is not to remove the desire but to stay sober despite it. It wouldn't make sense for me to take the steps since I don't believe the desire can be totally removed, I believe it can fade and lose its urgency, but it's with me for life.
However, I still plan to make an amends to whomever I believe I need to because it's the right thing to do. I need to be able to live with myself and I want to be healthy and whole and happy. I don't want to be haunted by my past and to carry guilt around with me. My children are first because they are the most important to me and I am responsible for who they will turn out to be. I have others though who I know I hurt. I had a big mouth when I drank and I've said some things that I wish I could take back. I've also shirked responsibilities and commitments I needed to keep because I was too sick to get it together. I want to be a stand up person going forward and part of that is going to mean leveling with myself and others about how I used to behave. I want to be able to say that sure I f*cked up but I did what I had to do to make it right and I learned from it and it will never happen again. That's how I will be able to forgive myself.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
its cool that you even recognize any of this. I remember a time for me when i was oblivious to my BS totally.
In time it will all work out so long as you just keep charging forward making good choices.
speaking of good choices. I got made with myself just today i thought I could do option A and have a good outcome and a good wise choice or Option B trash myself and screw up everyghing and i'm liek why is it my first inclination is to take option B? ::facepalm::
But for me anyhow it takes work to get up and make the right choices. But all that work adds up and you really start to see the fruits of it as i'm sure your already seeing.
In time it will all work out so long as you just keep charging forward making good choices.
speaking of good choices. I got made with myself just today i thought I could do option A and have a good outcome and a good wise choice or Option B trash myself and screw up everyghing and i'm liek why is it my first inclination is to take option B? ::facepalm::
But for me anyhow it takes work to get up and make the right choices. But all that work adds up and you really start to see the fruits of it as i'm sure your already seeing.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
think about people who never come around. I knwo someone whose mother never got it together and ended up killing herself.
things are not always perfect but you've climbed out of the hole you've wiped the crap out of your eyes you've gotten up and started swinging and fighting for your life back. I think things are starting to smooth out some and your just polishing at this point it seems like. Your doing ok.
things are not always perfect but you've climbed out of the hole you've wiped the crap out of your eyes you've gotten up and started swinging and fighting for your life back. I think things are starting to smooth out some and your just polishing at this point it seems like. Your doing ok.
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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I just came from therapy and it's funny zjw, but she said the same thing to me, think about the people who never smarten up and get their lives together, or who do it way later in life than I am. I feel much better after going in and talking to her! I really needed to get some of that off my chest. That was cathartic.
Sometimes I'm so happy that I quit drinking that it makes me want to dance and so I do! F*ck it feels good to have that monkey off my back!
Sometimes I'm so happy that I quit drinking that it makes me want to dance and so I do! F*ck it feels good to have that monkey off my back!
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Zen,
I don't have a horse in this race and I am most certainly no AA expert, but I don't think the book says the desire is removed - the part I remember is that the obsession is removed. Two different things. I've commonly heard people say in meetings that they would like to drink but they know they can't and so they don't.
In any event, I've got no say-so in how you do your amends and wouldn't dream of trying to steer you away from any path that works for you.
I'm glad your appointment went well today and you are feeling more positive about things. That's the important bit.
O
I don't have a horse in this race and I am most certainly no AA expert, but I don't think the book says the desire is removed - the part I remember is that the obsession is removed. Two different things. I've commonly heard people say in meetings that they would like to drink but they know they can't and so they don't.
In any event, I've got no say-so in how you do your amends and wouldn't dream of trying to steer you away from any path that works for you.
I'm glad your appointment went well today and you are feeling more positive about things. That's the important bit.
O
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
This where what you refer to appears Obladi. The tenth step promises, sometimes referred to as the forgotten promises.
"And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition."
This also my experience. It came about through working the steps. It does not come about simply by attending lots of meetings.
"And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition."
This also my experience. It came about through working the steps. It does not come about simply by attending lots of meetings.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Thanks, Mike. I'd love to discuss this further, but not on this thread. I've seen how this sort of discussion can spiral out of control...
Zen, I feel badly that things turned in the direction of discussing these esoteric issues on your thread. I should have been more thoughtful and sent you a pm or "met" you over in Secular Connections.
Your journey is yours alone and I wish you well.
Zen, I feel badly that things turned in the direction of discussing these esoteric issues on your thread. I should have been more thoughtful and sent you a pm or "met" you over in Secular Connections.
Your journey is yours alone and I wish you well.
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