Doug39

I know this topic has been posted so many times.

Most of the websites that have this information are the same.

What I am looking for is comparisons in timelines of recovery.

I drank everyday for 27 years.

I am now 93 days sober. I have had some good days but I have mostly had bad days.

Yesterday was tough - a lot of negative thoughts and feelings and I felt like I was in a dream and nothing is real.

I keep reading that it takes up to two years to become "normal" again.

Can anyone with a year or more sober from alcohol let me know how long they abused alcohol, what their timeline of recovery was and what were their symptoms (mainly thoughts and emotions).

Thank you.

Andante

Sorry you're going through this.

But the purpose of your comparison would be... what, exactly?

I remember feeling this way several months into recovery and going through what I felt must have been the world's worst-ever case of PAWS. I wanted someone -- anyone -- to reassure me that it would get better, because with every day I was losing hope.

The unfortunate fact is that everyone is different. There is no "normal" timeline. Knowing what others experience won't have any effect on what you experience -- except perhaps to draw more of your attention to your symptoms rather than what you might do to help yourself recover from them.

It's impossible to avoid feeling frustrated and impatient -- and in fact, I think those very feelings themselves are made worse by whatever is going on in our brains when we experience PAWS symptoms -- but a key part of recovery for me has been learning to live with those feelings and channel them towards more productive outlets.

For what it's worth, I drank more than some, less than others. I did go through many, many detoxes on my own -- and I believe that like the "kindling" effect, PAWS can be exacerbated by multiple detoxes.

The symptoms which I attributed to PAWS -- as opposed to the ordinary difficulty with living life on life's terms which any recovering alcoholic goes through -- included shaking hands, headache, brain fog, anxiety, and insomnia. Chief among problems with "thoughts and emotions" has been anhedonia (the inability to experience pleasure).

The symptoms were still pretty bad at 1 year, were significantly better by 2 years, and had mostly gone away by 3 years, with a lot of ups and downs along the way. Overall, I find that the more attention I pay to my recovery work, the less I'm troubled by the symptoms.

I'll be 4 years sober in March. Hope this helps.

ScottFromWI

There really is no concrete answer unfortunately Doug. There are far too many variables in life to be able to predict when you might feel "normal" again. And quite frankly, there is really no concrete definition of what "normal" even means.

A big part of recovery for me was learning to accept that sometimes we just don't feel good and that it's simply part of life. That doesn't mean to say that we shouldn't work on new coping strategies and strive to make things better, but the reality of life is simply that we will just have bad days sometimes. And that is a HUMAN thing...it happens to people in all walks of life whether they are recovering addicts or not.

As far as a time-frame, it took me personally about 3 months to start getting back into a better physical state. I had a lot of GI issues and it took time for them to get better. Regarding my mental state of mind, that took a LOT longer. I'm 4 years sober now and i do feel MUCH better than I did back then, but I also had to realize and accept that I have other problems to deal with ( Anxiety specifically ) that will be a lifelong ordeal. Yes things are a lot better, but I had to accept that my anxiety is real and can never be completely removed.

Regarding PAWS, I personally view it as merely a "catch all" phrase to try and explain why we feel bad. It's not a diagnosable condition either from a medical or psychological standpoint - and there is no "cure" because there is no diagnosis. I highly recommend working on the actual symptoms you are facing. For example, if you feel anxious or depressed seek treatment for those conditions. They are both diagnosable and treatable. Same for physical ailments...see a medical doctor if you have medical problems.

And lastly, ( and the hardest to accept is the big P word - Patience. We addicts have a craving/need for instant gratification. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way in real life...we need to learn that it takes time and to make note of our progress along the way. Because it really does add up! Congrats on 93 days...give yourself some credit for that too!

Dee74

Bear with me if you've seen this link before

https://digital-dharma.net/post-acut...r-immediately/

The really good part of this link IMO is the section headed Stabilizing our episodes of PAWs.

Some really good suggestions there on how to mitigate the effects of PAWS

D

BrendaChenowyth

My observation from being on this forum daily for the past six months or so? Everyone experiences something different. No two people have the same recovery "timeline".

BrendaChenowyth

You are learning for the first time how to cope with life and manage stress. We are alcoholics because we never learned how to do that, we drank to cope with life and manage stress. There is no set time frame that is going to happen in, but please try to look at this journey more in terms of "living life and bettering myself on day at a time"

ljc267

I was like you and expected to find a definitive timeline on how I should/would feel at each phase and when each stage would end. What I have learned, from here btw, is that it all depends on you. It takes time and we need to be patient.

I am dealing with it today, but it has improved quite a bit over the past three + months, so I try to look for the positives instead of the negatives, which was my m.o. for a long time.

Best of luck to you!

Aellyce

I agree with Scott about PAWS. There is no evidence whatsoever that those apparent symptoms are related to drinking or quitting drinking. People who have never abused alcohol can and do experience similar periods and symptoms, can be due to a variety of reasons, including simply just normal fluctuations in mental and physical state.

I think that one possible danger of putting down every physical and emotional discomfort to our drinking history is that we will just wait, thinking it's just early sobriety and will resolve on its own... Yes, patience is important but so is proactively making steps to improve our well-being, whether it's physical or emotional elements. There are so many wonderful resources available to improve quality of life nowadays, why not use them?

BrendaChenowyth

Could be related to deficient self-care. I know I have "PAWS" right now and really, if I'm REALLY being honest with myself, I am just persistently ignoring my own needs and not taking care of myself.

What Aellyce said! We fall in to the trap of waiting for this to pass, when we have to DO more to change it. It doesn't pass by itself.

soberlicious

So. Much. This.
I agree 100%.

steve-in-kville

This is kinda the stage I am in. I drowned everything for the past 15+ years in bourbon. Everything is a new learning experience for me!

Gottalife

PAWS hadn't been invented when I got sober, and even today I never hear it mentioned in the rooms. It is a non issue for me.

There were two elements to my reocvery. The first was toget the alcohol problem removed. This seemed to occur according to my progress with the steps. I hear a lot of people talk about step 9 as the point at which they really felt their lives had turned around in respect of the booze. See step 10 promises.

That took me 90 days. Some it takes less time and others take years.

Once the alcoholism is arrested, life is the next thing to come along, rejoining the human race if you like. Here my experience was all about growing up from child to adult (which has its painful moments for everyone) and growing spiritually. Bill once said "pain is the touchstone of al spiritual growth. There comes a point where the discomfort we experience in recovery is all about normal growth, and nothing to do with recovery from alcoholism. We are fortunate to have a program which helps us learn as we go.

ljc267

I've read this quite a few times from several members. I've been thinking about it a lot, because my emotional maturity is that of a middle schooler at best, lol. I know when I am mad, happy, and sad, but that is it. I am learning how to except and cope with how I feel and deal with it rationally.

It's like I'm a child learning how to be. It's mfer isn't it?

Hevyn

Hi Doug.

I drank heavily for 30 yrs. I went through many phases after I quit. In the beginning I was sick & shaky for a few days. After a week I was relieved to be free of it - but still feeling strange without my 'buffer'. At around 3 mos. I started to come alive & began to feel grateful & hopeful. I agree that it's such a personal, individual thing.

Nice work on reaching 93 days, Doug. Be kind to yourself.

Notimetoloose

There is anecdotal evidence in the hard drug community that for every year of using it will require an extra month after the initial withdrawal stage to fix our brains function back to a stable level!
20 years=20 months etc.

Many people do not experience PAWS symptoms, that was not the case for me.
My PAWS symptoms were considerable and lasted just over 2 years.
The symptoms waxed and waned on and off and at times I thought I was going to go out of my mind while trying to get some traction on my newly sober life.

I adapted the mindset that it time to pay the piper and take responsibility for my alcoholism and get well.

It has been well over 12 months since I have experienced any symptoms of what I would put into the PAWS category.

Andante

When it comes to vague, general symptoms of unease, discontent, or volatility, I'd be inclined to agree with you. A lot of what some people ascribe to PAWS may just be what in the old days they used to call "neurosis."

However, there is a specific set of distinct withdrawal-like symptoms commonly experienced on a post-acute timeline which I don't think can be explained away as "normal fluctuations," or categorically dismissed as being unrelated to drinking history.

As just one example, I submit tremor. It's funny that I should be called upon to respond about this topic several times in the last few days when it hadn't come up for months, but there you have it.

I began to develop tremor as part of my withdrawal symptom package midway through my drinking career. It would last for maybe a day or two into an abstinent period, and then would subside. As I continued to alternate between periods of drinking and sobriety, the tremor would last longer and longer. By the time I finally quit for good, it was months before it began to subside significantly, and even 4 years later I retain traces of it.

It seems clear enough to me that the other long-term symptoms I've experienced (detailed in an earlier post) are related and associated, and have a physiological basis that has everything to do with my drinking career.

I do agree with the advice to embrace recovery proactively, whatever the cause of lingering withdrawal-type symptoms may be.

Jack465

Bolded is exactly how I feel.

Of course I agree that we should be as proactive as possible in recovery, but:

I was perfectly healthy, and then drank heavily for a few years and suddenly I had these debilitating symptoms, similar to the ones described above and in other threads, some of which lasted for months after I stopped drinking. I just find it extremely hard to believe that there's no connection.

The symptoms also got worse each time I relapsed - again, making it hard for me to believe there's no connection to drinking.

I've been sober a little over a year and most of the symptoms I had resolved on their own.

Fluffer

PAWS is for real, some people get it, some people don't. I guess some people who didn't get it assume everyone is the same as they are and therefore must be some hypochondriacs or just emotionally maladjusted due to the addiction history. Not true, many of the symptoms are physical or clearly physically based.

I would also say the worst is over in one year, most done by two years. But everyone has different symptoms and timelines. good luck and hang in there!

Andante

Thanks for saying it so much better than I ever could (and in fact didn't)!

I understand the potential problem with giving any phenomenon a label -- it can encourage people to use it as an excuse or justification. However, I also think that automatically dismissing PAWS out of hand as being entirely psychosomatic demonstrates the same kind of "contempt before investigation" that keeps many people from getting sober in the first place.

ScottFromWI

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that the phenomenon of PAWS is not real for some people. I have certainly had many of the symptoms myself. And i'd hate to see this turn into a discussion of whether or not PAWS is "real". What's most important is to focus on finding ways to deal with said symptoms, no matter what their source might be.