A.A.'s Circle & Triangle
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The Field of Dreams
Posts: 7,249
Originally Posted by doorknob
AA and NA around this area also seem to have some animosity towards each other and some amount of bashing goes on between the two.
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Posts: n/a
3legs. I'm the smilie person around here and I wasn't aware that the AA symbol was missing. Sometimes the upload for the forum doesn't work so I just put in the address. When the site goes down the smilie goes down. I'll check to see if I can find it.
As for the cheap shots. I'm aware of every cheap shot. Even those masked in kindness. I've pretty much had it with this stuff. I think it's time for everyone to grow up and treat each other with real respect. I saw the first cheap shot on this thread and then the second and then the third. I've watched it for a long time and I know what's going on on both sides. Those of you who are involved and try to act innocent are not innocent and I'm tired of only half of the guilty parties being confronted.
I've seen a pattern of the same people being involved in the same crap. I've kept my mouth shut because that's what I'm supposed to do, but it really got to me bad today and I lost my cool this morning and if I could have it my way there would be a few people blocked.
It's always the same arguments and the same problems and the same cheap shots and it's really getting old and it effects more people then you can imagine. It has split up friendships, caused people to be banned, and done nothing for the newcomer.
I've read all these threads because they've been brought to my attention and after reading them for 3 years I still don't know anything new about the programs that you follow. I've learned to hate AA and hate RR. I've seen some really good information posted about Smart from Don. It seems like the nicest place to be. So if I were an alcoholic right now I would be attracted to Smart. I'm not sure though if God is allowed in Smart. I know that Don is against that I think. I should know a whole lot more after reading all these threads.
I received this link so here I am again reading a thread with the same old crap.
You didn't even wait until the body was cold.
As for the cheap shots. I'm aware of every cheap shot. Even those masked in kindness. I've pretty much had it with this stuff. I think it's time for everyone to grow up and treat each other with real respect. I saw the first cheap shot on this thread and then the second and then the third. I've watched it for a long time and I know what's going on on both sides. Those of you who are involved and try to act innocent are not innocent and I'm tired of only half of the guilty parties being confronted.
I've seen a pattern of the same people being involved in the same crap. I've kept my mouth shut because that's what I'm supposed to do, but it really got to me bad today and I lost my cool this morning and if I could have it my way there would be a few people blocked.
It's always the same arguments and the same problems and the same cheap shots and it's really getting old and it effects more people then you can imagine. It has split up friendships, caused people to be banned, and done nothing for the newcomer.
I've read all these threads because they've been brought to my attention and after reading them for 3 years I still don't know anything new about the programs that you follow. I've learned to hate AA and hate RR. I've seen some really good information posted about Smart from Don. It seems like the nicest place to be. So if I were an alcoholic right now I would be attracted to Smart. I'm not sure though if God is allowed in Smart. I know that Don is against that I think. I should know a whole lot more after reading all these threads.
I received this link so here I am again reading a thread with the same old crap.
You didn't even wait until the body was cold.
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Originally Posted by Morning Glory
I'm not sure though if God is allowed in Smart. I know that Don is against that I think.
Don
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Beaver, WA
Posts: 1,346
Managers :hello :
Any chance of banning a few folks for trashing this once heartfelt, honest thread which I began? Do we need to close it as others have done and then feign humility while we start up another attack of AA? Does only the "posse" run the show in SR?
Wonderful examples of mutual respect. I frankly love my NA friends and sorry a few folks twisted what was actually said to cover their tracks as usual.
:aasmile Thank God the Circle & Triangle is back as a smilie. I'm heading to bed for a good night sleep. Sorry if a couple of you are still lurking at such a late hour playing the games. Please move on to other threads if you would.
In Love & Service,
3 Legacy
That would explain a few things.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The Field of Dreams
Posts: 7,249
Back to the topic
The Circle and Triangle in AA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overview/Background
The triangle in a circle design was used by Alcoholics Anonymous as a logo on their literature for many years, but the use of this logo came into controversy in the late 1980s and was stopped soon after. Click here for a good overview of how and why the practice stopped. This summary was written by a person who served as Delegate during that period.
Use of this design has not been exclusive to AA, for example this centuries old building used it as part of its dome. See also the comment provided by contributor Mitchell.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Early Policies
As described in the summary mentioned above, prior to the late 1980s AAWS commonly allowed jewelry and trinket sellers to use the circle and triangle design for their products.
Supporting evidence for this description of AAWS policy can be found on the first page of the Legal Review, specifically the comments regarding exhibits 001 and 005.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Things Change
In late 1988, AAWS filed with the US Patent and Trademark Office (PTO) to register a number of trademarks and service marks. The registrations were completed by September and October of 1989. You may view copies of the US PTO documents issued to AAWS here.
The Finance section of Quarterly reports from GSO in 1988 indicated that legal activities were underway, reporting that legal expenses were more extensive than expected and that legal action was to be taken with respect to trademarks.
Although there is no supporting evidence presented here, it is believed that during this time period AAWS was also actively pursuing their requests for medallion and other trinket companies to cease using the circle and triangle logos.
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AA Goes to Court
Early in the summer of 1990, AAWS filed suit to force Frames of Mind to cease using the circle and triangle design on their products. AAWS also asked to have the defendants pay all court costs and tripled damages. The Complaint filed with the court can be viewed here.
Additional trial documents can be viewed here:
First Interrogatories
Notice to Produce
Letter to Defendant
The Court stipulation of the settlement agreement
Some of the expense of this litigation was reported by GSO in an August 1990 Quarterly Report. As the case was not settled until late July, it is likely this figure did not reflect the complete costs.
Late in July, 1990 this first trial resulted in a Settlement Agreement which required Frames of Mind to have AAWS approve all medallion designs. Some of the approved designs are presented here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Additional Litigation
Subsequent to the settlement presented above, more legal activity occurred. The result of a 1992 court case was that AAWS lost the right to approve designs for Frames of Minds' medallions. Although the court documents are not presented here, evidence supporting this conclusion can be seen in the Review of Legal Documents. Look specifically for the reference to the order by Judge Conboy as Exhibit 2.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subsequent AAWS/GSB Policy
In a series of memos and a Box 459 article, AAWS communicated to the Fellowship the changed policy regarding the circle and triangle. The most recent document regarding AAWS policy in this matter is the AAWS Policy on Identifying Marks and Copyrights, formulated in 1994.
Currently, records at the US PTO indicate that in 1996 AAWS cancelled their rights to all service marks for circle and triangle designs, as well as the trademark for the AA circle and triangle. The trademarks for the plain circle and triangle, as well as for the designs bearing the text "General Service Conference" and "Recovery, Unity, Service" are all still active and assigned to AAWS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Documents for Download
If you would like copies of the documents on this website, you can get them here:
All documents presented here 2.7 MB Acrobat file
Documents plus related correspondence 7 MB Acrobat file
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Send comments and questions to [email protected]
Site last updated on 05Jan2001
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overview/Background
The triangle in a circle design was used by Alcoholics Anonymous as a logo on their literature for many years, but the use of this logo came into controversy in the late 1980s and was stopped soon after. Click here for a good overview of how and why the practice stopped. This summary was written by a person who served as Delegate during that period.
Use of this design has not been exclusive to AA, for example this centuries old building used it as part of its dome. See also the comment provided by contributor Mitchell.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Early Policies
As described in the summary mentioned above, prior to the late 1980s AAWS commonly allowed jewelry and trinket sellers to use the circle and triangle design for their products.
Supporting evidence for this description of AAWS policy can be found on the first page of the Legal Review, specifically the comments regarding exhibits 001 and 005.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Things Change
In late 1988, AAWS filed with the US Patent and Trademark Office (PTO) to register a number of trademarks and service marks. The registrations were completed by September and October of 1989. You may view copies of the US PTO documents issued to AAWS here.
The Finance section of Quarterly reports from GSO in 1988 indicated that legal activities were underway, reporting that legal expenses were more extensive than expected and that legal action was to be taken with respect to trademarks.
Although there is no supporting evidence presented here, it is believed that during this time period AAWS was also actively pursuing their requests for medallion and other trinket companies to cease using the circle and triangle logos.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AA Goes to Court
Early in the summer of 1990, AAWS filed suit to force Frames of Mind to cease using the circle and triangle design on their products. AAWS also asked to have the defendants pay all court costs and tripled damages. The Complaint filed with the court can be viewed here.
Additional trial documents can be viewed here:
First Interrogatories
Notice to Produce
Letter to Defendant
The Court stipulation of the settlement agreement
Some of the expense of this litigation was reported by GSO in an August 1990 Quarterly Report. As the case was not settled until late July, it is likely this figure did not reflect the complete costs.
Late in July, 1990 this first trial resulted in a Settlement Agreement which required Frames of Mind to have AAWS approve all medallion designs. Some of the approved designs are presented here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Additional Litigation
Subsequent to the settlement presented above, more legal activity occurred. The result of a 1992 court case was that AAWS lost the right to approve designs for Frames of Minds' medallions. Although the court documents are not presented here, evidence supporting this conclusion can be seen in the Review of Legal Documents. Look specifically for the reference to the order by Judge Conboy as Exhibit 2.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subsequent AAWS/GSB Policy
In a series of memos and a Box 459 article, AAWS communicated to the Fellowship the changed policy regarding the circle and triangle. The most recent document regarding AAWS policy in this matter is the AAWS Policy on Identifying Marks and Copyrights, formulated in 1994.
Currently, records at the US PTO indicate that in 1996 AAWS cancelled their rights to all service marks for circle and triangle designs, as well as the trademark for the AA circle and triangle. The trademarks for the plain circle and triangle, as well as for the designs bearing the text "General Service Conference" and "Recovery, Unity, Service" are all still active and assigned to AAWS.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Documents for Download
If you would like copies of the documents on this website, you can get them here:
All documents presented here 2.7 MB Acrobat file
Documents plus related correspondence 7 MB Acrobat file
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Send comments and questions to [email protected]
Site last updated on 05Jan2001
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The Field of Dreams
Posts: 7,249
Here is the link to the same article. http://showcase.netins.net/web/twheise/
Guest
Posts: n/a
The smilie/emoticon for the simple Circle & Triangle disappeared on SR a shortwhile back. No, probably not black helicopters, but I still await trusted servants willing to answer a few questions I've politely asked over the past couple months about issues of censorship, stalking & banning, etc... to no avail.
You took your own thread off topic. I was just answering your question. I guess you didn't really want an answer though. I've always agreed with what you're saying, but you're not innocent either so you make a bad character witness. You've also done your share of stalking and your share of trashing and your share of cheap shots. You guys don't like each other because you see each other in each other and you don't like yourselves. You're all just looking in the mirror.
I need to also say that I don't really hate AA. It just hasn't been represented really well in these threads and I feel bad for saying that.
1 bite&all resistance crumbles
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,208
Ok so Morning Glory, now that you've EXPOSED 3legs (who does the LEAST of this kind of thing) can you also name and shame a few of the more serious offendors...I know precisely who they are...same ones over and over and over again.
But, you've chosen to 'out' 3legs ( I think unfairly and wrongly, jeez he wasn't even part of the horrendous AA Alternatives & Staying sober in AA threads for example!!!) , so please do out whom you really wanted to ban...let's have some names and call a spade a spade. The worst offendors.
Thanks in Advance,
Cathy31
x
But, you've chosen to 'out' 3legs ( I think unfairly and wrongly, jeez he wasn't even part of the horrendous AA Alternatives & Staying sober in AA threads for example!!!) , so please do out whom you really wanted to ban...let's have some names and call a spade a spade. The worst offendors.
Thanks in Advance,
Cathy31
x
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Morning Glory is probably sleeping, so I'm coming here early to suggest that everyone take a deep breath, step away from the chaos, and get back to recovery. Enough is enough, and there is plenty of good stuff to share, so let's see some of that good stuff shine through today, okay? Enough.
Hugs
Ann
Hugs
Ann
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The Field of Dreams
Posts: 7,249
Originally Posted by Cathy31
But, you've chosen to 'out' 3legs ( I think unfairly and wrongly, jeez he wasn't even part of the horrendous AA Alternatives & Staying sober in AA threads for example!!!) , so please do out whom you really wanted to ban...let's have some names and call a spade a spade. The worst offendors.
Thanks in Advance,
Cathy31
x
Now,how about that triangle in the circle? :aasmile
1 bite&all resistance crumbles
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,208
From 24 hours a day:
Be calm be true be quiet...do not get emotionally upset by anything that happens around you. Feel a deep, inner security in the goodness and purpose in the universe. Be true to your highest ideals. Do not let yourself slip back into the old ways of reacting. Stick to your spiritual guns. Be calm always. Do not talk back or defend yourself too much against accusation, whether false or true. Accept criticsim as well as you accept praise. Only God can judge the real you.
Having said that, all I will do is answer your question as to what I found horrendous.
What I found horrendous on those 2 threads was the ganging up (typically against 1 person) and snide-ness of a handful of SR members. I found it nauseating, unkind and unfair. I do not have a problem with the thread per se - I have a problem with the behaviour of the very same mentioned people on Morning Glory's thread.
Very scary and subversive behaviour, kind of like a kabal.
That's me, I won't engage further in this, although I have no doubt who will be along shortly....
(((T2S)))
Love,
Cathy31
x
Be calm be true be quiet...do not get emotionally upset by anything that happens around you. Feel a deep, inner security in the goodness and purpose in the universe. Be true to your highest ideals. Do not let yourself slip back into the old ways of reacting. Stick to your spiritual guns. Be calm always. Do not talk back or defend yourself too much against accusation, whether false or true. Accept criticsim as well as you accept praise. Only God can judge the real you.
Having said that, all I will do is answer your question as to what I found horrendous.
What I found horrendous on those 2 threads was the ganging up (typically against 1 person) and snide-ness of a handful of SR members. I found it nauseating, unkind and unfair. I do not have a problem with the thread per se - I have a problem with the behaviour of the very same mentioned people on Morning Glory's thread.
Very scary and subversive behaviour, kind of like a kabal.
That's me, I won't engage further in this, although I have no doubt who will be along shortly....
(((T2S)))
Love,
Cathy31
x
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
If you re-read those threads Cathy, you'll see that, just for me, I've included myself in the equation. And apologised when I felt it necessary.
I am responsible for my words and behavior.
Anything else, I am not.
What Morning glory has done here is not "out" anyone in particular, but rather given all of us, yourself included, a chance to re-evaluate why we post here at SoberRecovery.
And MG, I never thought for a minute you hated AA.
Thank you.
I am responsible for my words and behavior.
Anything else, I am not.
What Morning glory has done here is not "out" anyone in particular, but rather given all of us, yourself included, a chance to re-evaluate why we post here at SoberRecovery.
And MG, I never thought for a minute you hated AA.
Thank you.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The Field of Dreams
Posts: 7,249
Originally Posted by Cathy31
Very scary and subversive behaviour, kind of like a kabal.
That's me, I won't engage further in this, although I have no doubt who will be along shortly....
(((T2S)))
1 bite&all resistance crumbles
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,208
T2S
No, I was not referring to you being the person to come along next.
As I explained in my PM, I was finished what I had to say to you (I was replying to your post) and should not have ended it with elipses and then (((T2S))) cause it looked like I was going ... T2S!
What I was in fact doing was finishing my point (I know who will be along shortly) and then ending off with (((T2S))) as in hug.
I am sorry that my poor sentence construction made it appear as if I was singling you out. I wasn't. Who will be here next and (((T2S))) were 2 separate lines and meant to be 2 separate expressions.
Sorry if it upset you.
Cathy31
x
No, I was not referring to you being the person to come along next.
As I explained in my PM, I was finished what I had to say to you (I was replying to your post) and should not have ended it with elipses and then (((T2S))) cause it looked like I was going ... T2S!
What I was in fact doing was finishing my point (I know who will be along shortly) and then ending off with (((T2S))) as in hug.
I am sorry that my poor sentence construction made it appear as if I was singling you out. I wasn't. Who will be here next and (((T2S))) were 2 separate lines and meant to be 2 separate expressions.
Sorry if it upset you.
Cathy31
x
Last edited by Cathy31; 04-01-2005 at 06:14 AM. Reason: Poor sentence construction
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