courage2

I've been better.

For whatever reason, I having a lot of bad intrusive thoughts. It's not my typical negativity , and I'm not trying to suppress them (as if I could) -- I guess I'm trying to get along with them, very ugly memories and tatters of memories and fears of things I hope I've forgotten but are maybe coming back.

I imagine I'm not alone on this forum in this experience. For what it's worth, I've been working pretty steadily on this sobriety thing for a while, and drank and used for around 35 years before.

If any of you in this wonderful community have experience to share about learning to live with the wreckage of your past, I'd appreciate hearing it.

Dee74

I think it's a process Courage.
I found that with each layer I unravelled I found more to unravel....

I'm at the point now where I feel happy and content where I am so I'll probably lay off any more excavation for now

If I have any tips, the big one would be not to judge yourself on things that happened 25 30 years ago.

I'm not the same Dee from 1985 or 1990, or even 2005.

I've accepted the totality of embracing all that it means to be me, and I've accepted that it's an ongoing process.

There's some very unflattering stuff there...even frightening sometimes...but I was pretty messed up.

We get better - I had to grow into my skin, and that took a while - especially when I ******** any kind of growth for so long.

Fly N Buy

Recently I visited the town I went to college in several states away I had not been back to in years. I drove around some of my old haunts, mostly houses I rented - typically with a gal.

It started as sort of fun - a peak back into my late teens to early 20's. I parked outside a couple of the places and just contemplated the past. This exercise turned very painful in a short period of time as I remembered things. Decided I'd hit a meeting and split from the around campus tour.

A few days after returning home, I sat in the pain for few days. I could feel the pain I caused, the uncaring, selfish, deceitful cheating heart that was ubiquitous in all my relationships.

When I drank, I would feign sympathy at best and was really pretty much incapable of empathy at worst.

I spoke with my experience with some friends who are like us. They pointed out that in sobriety we can feel again, or maybe for the first time true emotions. Real empathy. Maybe this is growth Courage..........

I love what Dee just posted about peeling the layers and finding more layers. So very true. What I really like about this is his emotional maturity to stop/halt and don't excavate any more for now.

Wow. We can do that??? Terrific news - there time and a season for all things is what I hear from Dee's post.

So, Courage I have no real answers for me let alone you - But I do buy in to the possibility that we are both discovering true empathy which is leading to growth, perhaps

Today I may honestly post I am sympathetic for your feelings my friend.


very helpful thread
thank you

biminiblue

I think lots of things are best left alone. I am able to leave things in the past and not delve into them any more. I learned guilt at the feet of my mother, who learned it from her mother. That was how I was kept in line as a young person. By the time I was 15, I was all, "eff that." Guilt wasn't going to be my constant companion any more. A lot of the guilt placed upon me was for stuff that was not worth getting worked up over, but tell that to my neurotic mother.

I then swung the other way completely and shut down my emotions - partly to keep from getting hurt, but partly because I didn't even trust my own emotions after having them questioned and diminished all my life. I didn't let people get to me at all - except love interests. When I had been hurt too many times by lovers and by family members - it was on. I didn't have empathy or trust or kindness left. I had learned it was every-man-for-himself, and I became good at living that way. Thing is, that's where addiction comes in. Pick one - they're all the same.

At one point I had to examine my past and let it go, and forgive myself and others.

Now I just want to be kind to myself. I just want to give myself every chance to have happiness. I don't want to beat myself up any more and I don't want to hurt anyone else. I just want to live peacefully and quietly and not give a lot of thought to the negatives in the past. It works for me.

courage2

There are weird things associated with acts 25-30 years in my past. One of them being that there are truths I will never, ever know, so any stories I can teach myself to tell will only, ever, be stories. And I know what it's like to live in deep delusion, and I know that when you're deeply deluded, you don't know you are.

Another is that there's some real ugly s***. Like class 2 felonies that I could have served 3-7 years for, where people were hurt. Not robbing banks -- I wish.

You know, for a long time it was just all out of my head in an alcoholic blur. And since then, I've kind of looked at my life like something that happened to me. Like I wasn't an actual agent, it just "happened."

Turns out, I happened to other people, too.

Sorry to be so unpleasant. And thanks for the support -- I'm not ashamed to admit that I need it.

courage2

bim, I would gladly leave things unearthed. The dead seem to be rising without me asking, and I'm just trying to meet them as they come.

Hevyn

Hi courage. Thank you for starting this - it's always been a problem for me, and led me back into trouble a few times.

There are some excellent observations here already - I hope to benefit from them too.

thomas11

"If any of you in this wonderful community have experience to share about learning to live with the wreckage of your past, I'd appreciate hearing it."

Good Lord, it was a monumental task to forgive myself for the hurricane that was my life in the 90's. There is no instruction manual on how to overcome the guilt and shame that go along with the fact of how much wreckage I left in my path. I would say it took 3-5 years of mental and emotional gymnastics along with living as a model citizen to return to normal. Over time things faded and I was able to feel better about myself. Something else that helped me is trying to good deeds to neutralize all the bad deeds from the past. It makes me feel better. and once you can get that ball rolling, everything seemed to work itself out. I don't envy your position, but you can straighten it out. Wishing you the best.

biminiblue

Okay, have you read the Emotional Memories thread? It's in Mental Health/Anxiety...it's a sticky -

here/link:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...anagement.html



It's long, it will distract you. Even if you've read it, it's good to refresh

courage2

Thanks for the link, bim -- it was interesting -- and distracting!

Just to clarify, my post isn't really about forgiving myself. I'm just realizing that I may have been deluded for a long time about a lot more things than I knew. I guess that's typical of alcoholics. I'm starting to re-look at things everywhere -- I don't think the onion peeling metaphor is right for what's going on w/me right now, it's more like the famous optical illusion:



I'm expecting it will be a process to integrate my prior (partial mis)understandings with information coming in. Right now I believe I'm in an uncomfortable state of dealing with a lot of cognitive dissonance, trying mentally to hold on to and see both images at the same time. It can't be done. I need a new picture.

silentrun

I had a period where after I was sober for awhile I noticed things still didn't add up for me. I was past the drinking part of my recovery and I could tell something was off. I could see were I wanted to go but I couldn't get there. I don't know if that's what you are talking about. When I ran across the term cognitive dissonance it fit perfectly.

I am having to relearn an entirely different way of looking at things. At first I had to be very aware that my perception had been off so both my memories and thinking had been corrupted. I had to constantly self talk myself into the new way. There are times now when I am coasting along great in my new track and if I am not careful I slip back into the old.

Fly N Buy

I see, that does clarify things. So it's a search for the truth I suppose. The absolute, what really transpired. Good luck.

Please don't get lost in the sea of holes...........
In the end will this help your sobriety? Why this rabbit hole now, today?

hope you find peace Courage........

Gilmer

(((Courage)))

No wisdom, but I feel for you.

courage2

Thanks guys.

Flynbuy, believe me, I know I'm never gonna "figure out" "the truth" -- I'm not trying, it's more like it's trying me.

Why this rabbit hole, today? Probably has to do with knowing a lot of people sick and dying at this particular moment. Probably has to do with some back part of my brain that I can't even get at, deciding I'm ready to look at things differently -- not to look away so quickly, and more differently than just without a drink in my hands.

IfYouCanDream

Although I don't have much to add to the wonderful responses above, I though I'd stop to thank you for a great thread. I can relate a lot to those thoughts/feelings, I believe we all can to some degree.

When that kind of mood comes around I mantra: time heals.

(((Courage)))

RobbyRobot

"The whole is greater than the sum of its parts" - Aristotle

For me, this is true enough, and sustains me in my darkest hours. I'm more than just my history. More than what apparently defines me presently. And I'll remain more than whatever future is before me. I'm comforted by my appreciating a real meaning out of Aristotle's philosophical wisdoms.

I see both the old lady and the young lady in the optical illusion you presented. I can't see them both in the same instant. I can quickly though see each in turn again and again. There is something important in that I can't truly see both in the same moment. I can however force myself into a delusion of seeing both in the same moment. A kind of morphed vision which doesn't do justice to my actual senses. So, with a working delusion I "see something less". And without delusion, I "see something more."

Clarity with respect to ourselves is an essential responsibility when we seek to authenticate ourselves to whatever degree against our backstory. I'm careful enough with my own clarity to not be successful in any attempt to force a square peg into a round hole, if you will. If I can't fit it, I don't force it. Sometimes I just move on to something else. Other times I mediate on whatever until I move on. In all cases, I eventually move on.

For the times I match a square peg with a square hole, I take these experiences as genuine and not requiring my vetting the sources. I'm very often surprised on what actually "fits"

One suggestion I offer is this: Discover a additional path into your backstory which isn't only about wreckage, despair, and regret. I assure you, it is there for the finding. As you know, my own backstory is no cakewalk, and yet I do now have several paths back which bring me more than just wreckage. Please give yourself every opportunity to see the roses growing throughout your past experiences. As we all realize, roses grow best when grown in plenty of manure, yeah?

I have every empathy for your considerations which I bring to you in good faith, my friend (((courage)))

fini

courage,

yes, i experienced, and still do, a perception change. i started to see what you put so well: i happened to other people.
as you know, i'm in the infamous step-process. sponsor-type person suggested i write letters to people (not to be sent) as a helpful start to the amends process. i poo-pohed this. of course.
then i did it.
wow.
the stuff that came out. the stuff i saw differently about just HOW i happened to those people.
i could see my part. clearly. and then take steps to speak appropriately to those people about how i happened to them.
still in the porocess with more people.
nothing to do with forgiving myself, but acceptance of how i acted then and not running from that.
it's been and continues to be a great relief.

it's hard

Soberwolf

What D said

strategery

I am not sure if this helps, but you may be going through the same thing I am going through.

I am not sure what your belief system is, but sometimes I think God is testing me to see if I have truly learned from what I have experienced in the past by making me face that same issue again. In my case, I am facing the same exact situation that led me to escalate my drinking. Some say you will keep on repeating the same lesson until it is learned. I have been trying to keep that in mind.

I have also come to realize that I am a different person from my past self and that I have learned and grown. While I cannot change the past, I can move myself forward in a positive direction and do the best I can based on what I have experienced.

courage2

All of your posts are helping me with this a lot. Thanks.

I will eventually try to find some positive things about myself in my own broken-off past, but it will take a while.

I've "known" my own story like watching a movie -- actually like watching parts of a movie, 'cause I kept getting up and walking out to have a drink or ten I suppose I've been alienated from myself more than most people, even maybe people on the forum. That involves not only the alcoholism, but the whole mental disorder thing which I truly haven't emotionally accepted in the way I've accepted my alcoholism and drug addiction, and a profound period of self-imposed isolation.

For anyone else going through this, don't be afraid to write about it. I, for one, won't judge you. It frightens me to be more fully aware of what harm I'm capable of doing to others -- even to people I love -- but maybe I need to understand that to learn humility?