Opening up
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,352
Originally Posted by courage2 
I'm out of answers.
Last edited by silentrun; 06-13-2015 at 02:48 PM. Reason: dig the awesome pornstach
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,111
Hello Courage.
I don't know what you're going through. But I want to say "Hold On"...no doubt it WILL take courage.
I don't want to complicate things, but saw this myself recently and it was meaningful:
http://www.dawgfoundation.com/wp-con...ms-of-ptsd.jpg
Our experiences and memories can often be distressing. Especially if we kept them at a distance for any period of time...for example by drinking to forget.
Stay strong brother (or sister?!)
P
I don't know what you're going through. But I want to say "Hold On"...no doubt it WILL take courage.
I don't want to complicate things, but saw this myself recently and it was meaningful:
http://www.dawgfoundation.com/wp-con...ms-of-ptsd.jpg
Our experiences and memories can often be distressing. Especially if we kept them at a distance for any period of time...for example by drinking to forget.
Stay strong brother (or sister?!)
P
p***enger
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,025
Silent, the pornstach is all I can dig. How do you even know that music?
paulokes, thanks -- PAWS is a drag, for sure. I've been through PAWS, more than a year ago. Thank god that's over, although I must say, the mercy with PAWS is that you can't think. I could go for a little less concentration, a little more detachment, and a lot less memory right now.
paulokes, thanks -- PAWS is a drag, for sure. I've been through PAWS, more than a year ago. Thank god that's over, although I must say, the mercy with PAWS is that you can't think. I could go for a little less concentration, a little more detachment, and a lot less memory right now.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,111
Originally Posted by courage2
Silent, the pornstach is all I can dig. How do you even know that music?
paulokes, thanks -- PAWS is a drag, for sure. I've been through PAWS, more than a year ago. Thank god that's over, although I must say, the mercy with PAWS is that you can't think. I could go for a little less concentration, a little more detachment, and a lot less memory right now.
paulokes, thanks -- PAWS is a drag, for sure. I've been through PAWS, more than a year ago. Thank god that's over, although I must say, the mercy with PAWS is that you can't think. I could go for a little less concentration, a little more detachment, and a lot less memory right now.
I do think there was a certain amount of Trauma in my life though...early days and latter days. Some more dramatic, some less obvious. Intrusive thoughts are often identified with PTSD and anxiety
P
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by courage2
....PTSD. Another disorder I can have. I just don't know what I'm supposed to do with that idea. I'm sorry. I'll check in later. Please talk among yourselves.
Did I ever tell you I like you?
Well, I do. So there.
p***enger
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,025
Thanks Robby.
Paulokes, I really really didn't mean to be rude or dismiss PTSD. It's a serious thing. I'm just not looking for a solution. Do you understand? I am NOT seeking to recover from what I am dealing with now.
Paulokes, I really really didn't mean to be rude or dismiss PTSD. It's a serious thing. I'm just not looking for a solution. Do you understand? I am NOT seeking to recover from what I am dealing with now.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,373
I got to admit Courage I initially missed you weren't looking for answers too - my bad
It's a natural human instinct to try and help tho, I think?
Maybe we need a vent smiley for vent threads or something..
or a little Rodin's thinker smiley for introspective ones
D
It's a natural human instinct to try and help tho, I think?
Maybe we need a vent smiley for vent threads or something..
or a little Rodin's thinker smiley for introspective ones
D
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,111
Originally Posted by courage2
Thanks Robby.
Paulokes, I really really didn't mean to be rude or dismiss PTSD. It's a serious thing. I'm just not looking for a solution. Do you understand? I am NOT seeking to recover from what I am dealing with now.
Paulokes, I really really didn't mean to be rude or dismiss PTSD. It's a serious thing. I'm just not looking for a solution. Do you understand? I am NOT seeking to recover from what I am dealing with now.
FWIW, I wasn't suggesting you had PTSD...or that I did. Not a great fan of labels
I just think it's an interesting parallel to draw And of course I have no idea what it is that you're going through ...so best not to assume
P
p***enger
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,025
oh la, I seem to have really made this thread weird -- and I'm not even drinking, usually it's only threads started by active users that get so twisted so fast! So I think I'll keep it active a little while and see what happens.
I may or may not be a wee bit saner today. The most interesting things on this thread to me so far:
(1) Only a few responses so far seem to share my particular experience. Which is fine, ways of opening up to one's past will vary for all kinds of reasons. But I think I should try to clarify:
I have managed to live with myself, with various things that have been done to me and by me, and more important, with I guess I had best call, in order to be as intelligible as possible (although this is not the way I perceive it), an undiagnosed mental illness, for 35 years, by using drugs and alcohol and adopting a life of nihilism and alienation from myself and the world. You could ask anybody and they'd confirm it, except there's no one to ask.
Rather suddenly, and it seems almost against my will, I have been thinking about myself. This is not something I want to do. It is, as you all know who have done it on purpose in order to deal with your own wreckage, painful.
Throughout any previous process of self-reflection, I retained -- not even knowing it -- a wall between the person I reflected on, and me. Do you know what I mean? That wall seems to be completely gone right now, very suddenly --
(although maybe it's just one of many walls that will rise and fall and rise and fall again, which is a scary thought, that I might have to go through this over & over)
(2) Solution.
Did I post to find a solution? No, I didn't, although I certainly appreciated the thoughtfulness of everyone who offered their suggestions. I posted to find out if anyone shares this experience described above with (1), and what it's like for them, and where it has led for them.
Do I want a solution? Solving problems is my forte. Solving problems makes them stop being problems. I am my own problem, for my entire life. If I solve myself, I will stop being me. I think it's a good thing that I don't want to solve myself.
I hope this post is helpful and doesn't turn people away who are interested in the topic of opening up in sobriety, either voluntarily or involuntarily.
I may or may not be a wee bit saner today. The most interesting things on this thread to me so far:
(1) Only a few responses so far seem to share my particular experience. Which is fine, ways of opening up to one's past will vary for all kinds of reasons. But I think I should try to clarify:
I have managed to live with myself, with various things that have been done to me and by me, and more important, with I guess I had best call, in order to be as intelligible as possible (although this is not the way I perceive it), an undiagnosed mental illness, for 35 years, by using drugs and alcohol and adopting a life of nihilism and alienation from myself and the world. You could ask anybody and they'd confirm it, except there's no one to ask.
Rather suddenly, and it seems almost against my will, I have been thinking about myself. This is not something I want to do. It is, as you all know who have done it on purpose in order to deal with your own wreckage, painful.
Throughout any previous process of self-reflection, I retained -- not even knowing it -- a wall between the person I reflected on, and me. Do you know what I mean? That wall seems to be completely gone right now, very suddenly --
(although maybe it's just one of many walls that will rise and fall and rise and fall again, which is a scary thought, that I might have to go through this over & over)
(2) Solution.
Did I post to find a solution? No, I didn't, although I certainly appreciated the thoughtfulness of everyone who offered their suggestions. I posted to find out if anyone shares this experience described above with (1), and what it's like for them, and where it has led for them.
Do I want a solution? Solving problems is my forte. Solving problems makes them stop being problems. I am my own problem, for my entire life. If I solve myself, I will stop being me. I think it's a good thing that I don't want to solve myself.
I hope this post is helpful and doesn't turn people away who are interested in the topic of opening up in sobriety, either voluntarily or involuntarily.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
i am my own problem too, courage, though in different way from you.
except : maybe that's not a problem.
maybe no solution is required or wanted because there is nothing to be solved.
maybe that whole paradigm of problem/solution is useless here, or at least not fruitful.
except : maybe that's not a problem.
maybe no solution is required or wanted because there is nothing to be solved.
maybe that whole paradigm of problem/solution is useless here, or at least not fruitful.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by courage2
Do I want a solution? Solving problems is my forte. Solving problems makes them stop being problems. I am my own problem, for my entire life. If I solve myself, I will stop being me. I think it's a good thing that I don't want to solve myself.
And so on and so on and whatever.
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,352
Uh oh...I didn't think this thread was weird or twisted at all. I was enjoying the hell out of it! I love your musical stylings. Firing back with that song was amazing. You went up 10 points on my cool scale.
This is what I did and continue to have to work on Courage, take it for what it's worth. I had a huge problem not being able to separate actions from the person doing them. If someone did something stupid then they were stupid, if someone did something hateful, they were a hateful person. I couldn't let things go because in my mind it was EVIDENCE. I had evidence on everyone. I had the most evidence on me of course and it came in flashes of intrusive memory. My mind spun and spun until the only thing left to do was have a stoke or call a truce. I across the board forgave everyone who had ever screwed me in exchange for forgiving myself. At least a couple times a week the old way will try to sneak back in and I have to stop myself and say "we have a deal." From then on I try to look at my behavior without attaching too much significance to it. If I don't like how I am coming off I can change it no problem. It's not part of me it's just stupid **** I do. The why is all that is important to me.
Give yourself a break here. You were in the hole for 35 freaking years. I went mad inside of 10.
This is what I did and continue to have to work on Courage, take it for what it's worth. I had a huge problem not being able to separate actions from the person doing them. If someone did something stupid then they were stupid, if someone did something hateful, they were a hateful person. I couldn't let things go because in my mind it was EVIDENCE. I had evidence on everyone. I had the most evidence on me of course and it came in flashes of intrusive memory. My mind spun and spun until the only thing left to do was have a stoke or call a truce. I across the board forgave everyone who had ever screwed me in exchange for forgiving myself. At least a couple times a week the old way will try to sneak back in and I have to stop myself and say "we have a deal." From then on I try to look at my behavior without attaching too much significance to it. If I don't like how I am coming off I can change it no problem. It's not part of me it's just stupid **** I do. The why is all that is important to me.
Give yourself a break here. You were in the hole for 35 freaking years. I went mad inside of 10.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
Posts: 14,636
Originally Posted by courage2
Rather suddenly, and it seems almost against my will, I have been thinking about myself. This is not something I want to do. It is, as you all know who have done it on purpose in order to deal with your own wreckage, painful. Throughout any previous process of self-reflection, I retained -- not even knowing it -- a wall between the person I reflected on, and me. Do you know what I mean? That wall seems to be completely gone right now, very suddenly.
I think I could even describe it as the opposite of depersonalization It was some type of extreme personalization. Regardless, I interpreted it (after the pain it caused initially) as a positive thing, as growth.
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,352
The funny thing is when I chose that avatar I didn't know why. I do now though. You want to see weird and twisted check this out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqYTUjRNjH4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqYTUjRNjH4
p***enger
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,025
This is something I watch sometimes. It takes a person's mind off things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzC4hFK5P3g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzC4hFK5P3g
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: northern AZ
Posts: 796
I'm trying, I really am. I'm getting nowhere though, so let me just ask Courage... are you saying that you've chosen to live in/with your existential angst as defining you and if others have made that choice also?
I must, in good conscience, address the PTSD comments. It seems to have become somewhat of a buzz word or self-diagnosis... sadly, even an excuse... these days. PTSD is not simply anxiety in varying degrees and I should probably leave it at that. But will say that one can become anxious or any other emotion remembering events and that's "normal" but with PTSD, you're right back there experiencing (not thinking about) what you did then. When remembering, its like watching a movie with accompanying emotions that come from particular scenes. Watching someone being chased by a dinosaur is scarey. When you have PTSD, you're in the scene and being chased at the moment... those emotions are different. Should someone innocently approach you when you're in that mode, you're likely to inappropriately strike out to defend yourself... to survive... reality is suspended. That's just one example. Speculating, it probably will be broken down into degrees of it to cast a wider net for professional treatment though. I wouldn't be surprised. Personally, I get treatment at the VA and, since there's no profit motivation, there's only one kind. Anxiety is a different treatment.
I must, in good conscience, address the PTSD comments. It seems to have become somewhat of a buzz word or self-diagnosis... sadly, even an excuse... these days. PTSD is not simply anxiety in varying degrees and I should probably leave it at that. But will say that one can become anxious or any other emotion remembering events and that's "normal" but with PTSD, you're right back there experiencing (not thinking about) what you did then. When remembering, its like watching a movie with accompanying emotions that come from particular scenes. Watching someone being chased by a dinosaur is scarey. When you have PTSD, you're in the scene and being chased at the moment... those emotions are different. Should someone innocently approach you when you're in that mode, you're likely to inappropriately strike out to defend yourself... to survive... reality is suspended. That's just one example. Speculating, it probably will be broken down into degrees of it to cast a wider net for professional treatment though. I wouldn't be surprised. Personally, I get treatment at the VA and, since there's no profit motivation, there's only one kind. Anxiety is a different treatment.
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