Gargery

Hello. This is my first post. I wouldn't be making it if I weren't in a bind. I'm going to omit most of the details of my situation because I have twice the usual reason for wanting to preserve my anonymity.

I'm an adult male alcoholic, and I also happen to have a rather pronounced case of ASPD. The not-so-nice word for persons like myself is sociopath. It's something I've dealt with my entire life, and I'm at peace with it. Suffice it to say I'm not a criminal, nor do I torture animals for fun, nor do I find it enjoyable to hurt people. I'm not Hannibal Lecter. I (like about 4% of the population) just experience and respond to negative emotions and stimuli differently than other folks. It doesn't make me a bad person, but it does pose special problems for working the 12 Steps. I've been sober now for over 100 days, attending AA and the occasional Alanon meetings daily (sometimes three times a day) for most of that. I have a sponsor I like and respect and have begun working steps. I feel pretty good about my chances.

However, I've just begun working on step four, the inventory, and like a lot of situations that require emotional analysis, I'm simply stymied. AA teaches that our resentments lead us to drink, but what about persons like myself who simply don't have resentments? I can speak only for my own experience, but one of the many common features of people with ASPD is lessened or absent negative emotional responses. I've never been angry. I've never had my feelings hurt. It simply isn't possible. (There are a whole host of other reactive emotions I don't experience as well: fear, guilt, shame, anxiety, grief, sadness etc.) It may sound shocking (or like I'm being dishonest) to those who do not have this condition but that is the case. The closest I get to fear is surprise. The closest I get to anger is bored exasperation. I've never held a grudge against anyone because it has never occurred to me to do so. I simply forget and move on. How does a person like me do step four? My sponsor is intelligent and well-meaning, but I know from past experience that trying to explain what it is like to have this condition to someone who is unfamiliar with it is almost impossible. I have tried twice. I'm stumped.

In any case, I know not every ASPD person is the same, but I suspect my experience will ring a bell with some of you, since there are about 15 million of us out there, and folks with ASPD are more prone to addiction and substance abuse than the general population. I'd really like to hear from some of you about your experiences working the steps and what accommodations and adjustments you've had to make to get through them and maintain successful recovery.

Thank you for reading. This site seems like a great resource and I think I will benefit tremendously from the experiences others have shared.

Gargery

Nonsensical

Welcome to the SR forums, and congratulations of 100+ days and your decision to pursue a sober life!

I wish I could help, but your predicament is new to me. I just wanted to offer my encouragement.

Best of Luck on Your Journey!

RecklessEric

Hi Gargery.
I speak as someone who doesn't do the steps or have ASPD, so please disregard my advice if it doesn't make sense.
I do know people who have done certain steps with people other than their sponsor.
It may be tricky to find a sponsor who understands you but maybe you could find a therapist who could help you with that step.

This is where my ignorance comes in, but if you don't feel resentment, maybe it's something you don't need to focus on? To me that's a logical consideration, but like I said, I don't do the steps.

Sounds like you're doing really well.
Best of luck and keep in touch here. I've had lots of great support and advice here.

PurpleKnight

I just wanted to Welcome you to the Forum!!

Gottalife

Welcome Gargery,

I live the steps and have been sober a good length of time bvut i don't have ASPD.

FWIW, however, I did come into AA with no resentment because, I think, I knew I was in the wrong in every situation that might have given rise to a resentment nd I just didn't hang on to the feeling in that way.

The lack of these negative emotional responses, on the face of it, ought to be a good thing. It is something I have spent a lifetime working with God to achieve, and I still have a long way to go.

But the spiritual linkage of the steps, as I currently understand it, is different to the common psychological interpretations.

The psychological interpretation might suggest that resentment makes us drink, but to me, this is not so.

I drank because I had no effective mental defence against the first drink. My defence had to come from a Higher Power and it is the purpose of the steps to get me connected to that Higher Power. Resentment can block that power, thereby removing my defence.

The purpose of the 4th step is to identify any flaws in our character like resentment, fear, jealousy etc that are blocking us. If you have no resentment, then that is one block you don't have, and to me that would seem to be good news.

Just as a speculation, there may be aspects of your fifth step which may be more challenging. Perhaps it might be necessary to compare your actions which may have harmed others to an accepted moral code, like the 10 commandments, and make a confession based on that for any instance about which you carry no negative feelings. Such a comparision may help with empathy and understanding and may also clear away some invisible blocks. That's pure speculation on my part, but i hope it will be helpful.

freshstart57

If AA teaches you that resentments and unresolved emotional issues like fear and jealousy are the cause of drinking, and you don't have those, then maybe AA is simply not for you. It isn't for everybody. Some of us have found it difficult to move forward in AA and found other solutions, and some of us have found it simply impossible due to our makeup and personal nature.

The good news is that there are many tools to help us in our quest for sobriety. Maybe an alternative to 12 step will be a better fit for you. SR has a forum here for alternatives to 12 step called Secular Connections. You will find a lot of support there too.

RobbyRobot

Hi Gargery.

Anti-social personality disorder (ASPD) is not itself a roadblock to having success in sobriety with AA. The disorder does not prohibit sobriety being achieved by other means either, goes without saying.

I've worked with ASPD clients back in my day. My experience is such clients spoke more about their wondering what all the fuss was about with others relative to themselves, while others in the fellowship were convinced my clients were uncaring and unmoral. I worked with both sides to bridge the perceived differences. Results were mixed.

What is it about AA program that attracts you? My clients to a man thought AA was useless to them as a life long pursuit, and so I find it interesting that you have focused on the 4th as being problematic for you, and not that the fellowship of others is not also problematic?

FWIW, I'm not entirely in agreement with the parameters you have stated of what you describe as ASPD and of being a sociopath. No big deal, we're just sharing our different experiences. Myself, I was classed as an undifferentiated schizophrenic back in my drinking daze. Its like we're cousins of a sort, lol.

Welcome to SR!

desypete

ihave never heard of this condition before, but please remember here the 12 steps is only suggested its not a must
i found just being in and around aa people in the meetings was actualy the best help i have ever had in learning about me and trying to do things differently

it was different for me as i was beaten by life and the drink i had nothng left so the people in aa had there work cut out for me to even give me a glimmer of hope

but they did and i fell in love for the first time in my life with the fellowship of aa
they carried me and looked after me, i was in no fit state in my mind to ever take the steps for the first year but i clung on to the meetings like my life depended on it and it did in my eyes

only later on after 2 years of being sober but not very grateful for being sober did i take the steps
steps 5 put me off and the god word as god hadnt looked after me or saved me from anything in my life i ended up in prison and all over the place with my drinking

but in the end i did the steps and i can honestly say today i am happy just to be sober but i had to work hard on me and how my head thinks and how i feel to make it happen

i had to practice doing opposites, if i felt like not going to an aa meeting tonight i had to turn my head around and just go
if i didnt like things people said i would have to shut my gob and not say anything but smile
it takes a lot of hard work on me to get these results but today after many years i now do it a lot easier than ever in my life, i can take things on the chin today without kicking off
but not all the time as i do still find it hard to not open my gob or stick my nose in were it shouldnt be

but the point i am making here is i learned these skills from the people in aa and my sponsor
so who knows maybe it might happen that way for you and you can learn from the people in aa like i did ?

jdooner

How I understand AA to work. The Fellowship or meetings work for those that have worked the steps and had a spiritual awakening to share their experience, strength and hope with the newcomer. With a simple kit of spiritual tools found in AA's 12 steps the newcomer is then able to have their own spiritual awakening in order to achieve a psychic change. The newcomer then becomes an old member, which has nothing to do with actual time and everything to do with passing along this message to the newcomer.

This is how I have been taught.

desypete

well sadly i would have died going along to an aa meeting that operated like that
meeting are were new comers go for help with a drink problem, there they will meet men and women who have been in there mess and will help them

i would have a read of a the aa preamble if i was you to find out what aa is about and what the rules are for meetings

it might help you understand more about aa meetings

tomsteve

"but what about persons like myself who simply don't have resentments?"

if you don't have any resentments then skip the resentment inventory and move on to the fear and sex inventory.

don't know if I missed it in yer post, but do ya have a sponsor?

jdooner

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Soberpotamus

Welcome to SR! My first thought was perhaps you'd do well to involve a therapist or psychologist, along with your participation in AA. I did this in early recovery and it helped. Anyhow, glad to have you here

keithj

There's been a lot of solid recommendations already given in this thread. You'll do fine, Gargery.
Hmm, maybe not exactly. And I don't mean to beat the small details to death, but there may be an important distinction that can help you. If it were as simple as 'my resentments lead me to drink,' and you have no resentments to speak of, then wouldn't it stand to reason that you shouldn't be 'driven' to drink?

Instead, the BB understanding is that resentments are one common manifestation of self that blocks us off from that vital higher power. I drink because I'm an alcoholic and I lack the power to stay away from alcohol. My own experience proves this. So, if lack of power is my problem, then the solution is to get some additional power working in my life. Makes sense, right? So resentments are just one form of that 'self' that's getting in my way. Like others have said, if you really have no resentments, then happily move on to fear and sex inventories. But I would look a little more closely at resentment. Are there people you don't like? Don't want to be around? Feel better than? Less than? All of those other emotions are very close to resentment.
Then list the people, institutions, and principles that exasperate and bore you. :-) Do you agree with every government program? Every religion? Anything you disagree with? These will all help you get a framework for looking at the 4th column directions on page 67.

UncleMeat69

I believe the Preamble supports your hypothesis.

Gargery

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement. I had some longer individual responses to post, but on reviewing them, they seemed kind of false and self-serving and manipulative, which are things I have to try very hard to avoid being. I'm trying hard to cultivate that "capacity to be honest" from chapter five, but I feel that dishonesty is the only way I can complete these steps. I'm REALLY good at lying to people, telling them what they want to hear, using their own expectations and emotions to manipulate them. I have no doubt I could come up with a list of fears and resentments that would have my sponsor eating out of my hand in a few minutes, but what's the point? I'm not trying to sell him anything; I want what he has, and it can't be bought or stolen or given to me so dishonesty serves no purpose. I've already weaseled my way around steps two and three: when I say I have a higher power it's like Bill Clinton (one of my favorite sociopaths) saying that he "did not have sexual relations" with that woman; it may be technically true in a legalistic sense, but it is nonetheless a lie.

In any case, I'm going to keep going to meetings and think on whether or not I want to work these steps. I had made the decision earlier today to abandon the program, but I don't want to be rash. Perhaps I can glean some benefits simply by listening, and perhaps I will feel differently if I give it more time. One of the slogans I've heard in AA is "fake it 'til you make it." That has worked well in other areas of my life and maybe it will here too.

Really, thanks. I think it helps me just to vent a little. My sponsor will certainly get an earful of this kind of drivel when I see him next.

freshstart57

What is essential, Gargery, is that you maintain your sobriety and continue to exercise your choice to not drink. Maybe you can progress this to a decision to quit drinking forever. Regardless, I hope you find a way to make this choice as simple and easy as possible for YOU.

Best to you.

Eddiebuckle

Gargery,

Have you considered doing your fourth and fifth step with/with the help of a therapist who understands your diagnosis? One way you could do this is appointments with a therapist and your sponsor where the therapist helps your sponsor navigate the parts where your diagnosis is in play?

hopeful4

I attend Celebrate Recovery. There are people who come and gain from the meetings even though they have never worked the steps. You can still get help from those around you.

Whatever you decide, best of luck!

Gargery

That's the idea. I can't drink like a normal human being. It has to be forever. Unfortunately, in that respect, I'm just like any other alcoholic: one drink and I'm off to the races. That's one thing AA has made me realize about myself.