courage2

No interest on my part at all in gods, religion, spirituality. But whether you can successfully navigate a 12-step based recovery program without believing in some kind of god -- that interests me.

So I go to a meeting tonight. I've been pop-eyed jumpitty bunny on crack lately with tension entirely of my own devising, and decided to dump it on the group. In my manic demented way, I believe I threatened to knock a hole in the church basement wall on my way out of the meeting. Sigh. Not proud, but I don't go to AA to be proud.

Anyway, a guy I barely know shared about something completely different, but I've heard him once when he caught my attention with a lot of anger. So I went to him afterward and said thanks. He made me feel like it was ok not to be serene.

He said, "My sponsor introduces me to newcomers by saying, this is XXXX -- he's never done the steps, has a ton of anger, and sits in the back of the meetings texting. And somehow he's put together years of sobriety."

Then he shared with me the secret handshake and walked away.

Boleo

Me to. Met hundreds of people who simply stopped drinking. They never had to admit they were powerless either.

However, not one of them ever went to a recovery meeting, seminar or website to discus it. The people here don't typically fit that description.

FT

I total confusion.

Boleo

People quit drinking all the time. Some of them do it without any kind of a struggle what so ever. Most of them simply identify themselves as ex-drinkers or tea-totalers.

The people who typically peruse this website are the ones who struggle with sobriety. Some may choose to not identify with alcoholics, but all are looking for advice to help them with their struggle.

For those who think they can stop drinking (for good) without some kind of a program of recovery, here's all you need:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow0lr63y4Mw

freshstart57

That's funny right there, that Bob Newhart stuff. 'You don't want to go through life like that, do you? No? Because you're making yourself sick and miserable? Well, then stop it!'. A funny guy, that Bob.

SavingSelf

I used to say I was agnostic. I definitely do not believe in the Christian God I was taught about in Catholic school for 12 years. I don't believe in heaven and hell.

Lately, I have been working on my spirituality (for lack of a better word). Working on letting things go...remembering that I am not in charge. I believe in a positive energy we all possess and share that is greater than any one person--so maybe that is "God"? When we have a good day with my daughter (6 years old with a terminal illness) and the weather is right (our trip to Storybook land)...perhaps that is a God moment? And again, just using the term God for brevity's sake)

When you are dealing with the mortality of your child, and watching her slowly lose every skill she worked extra hard to gain, you really run out of time to think too hard about stuff like this. The positive of that is that it is much easier for me to lump it all in to the "this is the small stuff" category because in the end, it doesn't really matter what I or anyone else believes--just keep trying to do the right thing. And the right thing for me is to not get blotto everyday. Cause doing that would be an incredible slap in the face to my child who at six years old has lost the ability to drink and couldn't get blotto even of she wanted to.

dSober

I've been an agnostic all my life SavingSelf, until recently. I do, now believe in heaven and hell but I believe they exist during life. We choose where we want to live. I feel I'm saving myself by developing an understanding that, for me, God is my conscience. Following through on that, and simply doing what my conscience tells me is right, is allowing me to get the hell away from hell and move closer and closer to heaven. This understanding has allowed me to get "unstuck" in AA's steps and following through on them is allowing me to speed up my move, substantially, by very effectively dealing with my past and the regrets which kept me drinking and repeating other past mistakes.

mfanch

Before AA- non-theist.
After 5 years of AA - still non-theist.

As much as there is "god" talk in the BB, there is also talk of a resource within us.

Infinite universe vs. finite self....pretty easy choice to me. That was my 3rd step right there.

FT

mfanch, I LIKE that word -- non-theist. MUCH better than A-theist, because even though I do not believe in god, I don't necessarily like to be grouped with any belief system.

boleo,

The Newhart thing is cute, but it flies in the face of people who really have a painful mental illness such as severe depression. Funny part about his own OCD though.

"I total confusion," taking after Cow, is how can anyone know what is "typical" about the anonymous perusers of SR, most of whom never even sign up for a user account (forgive the pun).

I may not be "typical," but I didn't come here for my past alcohol use, and I no longer struggle with alcoholism. Maybe I never did, but I lit up the red lights with the, "if you answer yes to at least two of these questions...." list.

I came here for opiate withdrawal after I had several major orthopedic surgeries and became addicted to painkillers (oxycodone to be specific). SR really saved me, not so much for helping me quit because I came here after I already did that. SR helped me not to feel so isolated and alone, and other members helped me with some of the issues that came with detox and withdrawal. Another series of surgeries brought me back for some company, but my decision to quit was not so much a "struggle" as it was to benefit from community.

It is true that RR, AVRT, SMART, etc. folks are less likely to be here on SR, like me, but certainly not all of us are struggling.

Lastly, not all of us continue to be here because we want ".... advice to help them with their struggle." While not necessarily "asking" for advice, however, I do admit I enjoy some of the words of wisdom that come with others' asking the good questions.

So, I wanted to answer your post without sounding argumentative, because I largely agree with your response. But I just had to comment on the "all" and "never" concept as applied to any large group of people.

desypete

sorry to hear you come here as your strugling with being sober or living sober i come here to see if i can help anyone who is strugling with it all
also i come here as i dont have to believe in a god so its total freedom for me in that way
if i can help you i will
good luck to you

soberlicious

There is an untold number of people who peruse this site. At any given moment it could possibly be in the hundred thousands. The Internet is a vast place. What I want to know is how you could even begin to presuppose the motives of so many people you know nothing about.
Personally I came to this site almost 4 years after quitting. My motive was to look for interesting conversation surrounding the changing face of what it means to end an addiction. I was looking for stimulating discussions that involved fewer meaningless slogans and platitudes, and more depth. Alternative ways of thinking that were not a regurgitation of the same thing over and over. Plus, I find people who have overcome adversity and changed their lives fascinating. Coming to SR is an interest of mine, the same way I also correspond with other parents of multiples, parents of disabled children, runners, crafters... Those are things I live.

FT

hey wait a minute, soberlicious, that is what I MEANT to say....

Cow

Who not love Newhart! But "stop it" I think is unfair to people with brain/mental illnesses. Is like when I get told to "cheer up." It make me feel hurt and alone. In matter of alcohol, of course, is eventual, one way or other, you gonna 'stop it.' One way or other. Some ways better than other.

dSob, some people conscience tell them to kills other people or that they DESERVE to take what not theirs and such, so I think you approach depend on quality of you conscience, yes? As severe anhedonic, I would no leave my conscience in charge of anything! I has to let intellect do the driving.

Savingself, what can be said, but my thoughts is with you. I think little girl should has good and sunny day, every day. But has clearly been demonstrate that life not fair. Or rather, maybe it neither fair nor unfair, but just random assemblage of good and bad and boring moment and is not too much we can control this. Best we can do is try to enjoy good moment when it come, yes? Maybe try to leans toward them, or set our selfs up for them, whenever we can. I very much hope you get more good moment.

Boleo

It's been a long time since I thought about drinkin or not-drinkin. That struggle is long behind me. I no longer care about the alcohol component of alcohol-ISM.

"We (I) feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We (I) have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us (me)."

When I see/hear/read about people having to choose between drinkin and not-drinkin, that is where I get the idea that they might just be struggling One-Arduous-Day-At-A-Time.

At that point, I share my ESH (not Opinion, Speculation and Conjecture) with them to help them get past their struggle. I don't buy the idea that lots of folks come here for pure entertainment. Whether they admit it or not, SR is for answer seekers. There might be a mole-hill of speculation in that statement, but there is a mountain of conjecture in the statement "SR is for non-alcoholic/addicts".

soberlicious

What answers are you seeking, boleo?

Boleo

I am a truth seeker. I will go to any lengths to get at the truth. Even if it means rocking the boat around here of who think SR should be used as some kind of backslapper club.

"The truth is something so noble, that if god were to step aside from it, I would grab hold of the truth and let go of god."
(Meister Eckhart)

soberlicious

Oh I got it...a truth seeker. You're the only one out of hundreds of thousands not seeking answers to their constant struggles with alcohol.

Actually people read here for myriad reasons. Here's one recent quick example right off page one of today's threads : This dude is looking for like minded people who live booze free. He doesn't appear to be having insurmountable struggles with alcohol, although I will leave it to wise one boleo to check his crystal ball and tell me what the real motives are here.

ETA...sorry bethrodisiac is not a dude!

FT

Pure entertainment? Answer seeking?

No and no.

One thing that has always strengthened me in my "recovery" is reaching out to help others that are struggling.

It reminds me of where I do not want to go again, to something that I never in a million years thought I would be threatened by -- addictive behavior.

So, not "answer seeking" at all. I answered my own question years before I ever found SR. Alcohol is not a good lifestyle. My husband's family is severely alcoholic. I'm second generation from a group of drunks. Lots of "role models" growing up, including old John Wayne movies where I learned that having a hard day made a guy "need a drink." It was all good.

Not.

dSober

Whatever works is a real good thing. As you apparently have found also, the meat of the steps, and the recovery are all after 3. 4-9 to recover. Repeating 10-12 to stay that way. It was a tough reality for me but I certainly found step 3 had to be done, somehow, before I could really do the rest.

dSober

Maybe but it seems to me the same cure works in the end. Bob just skipped the how to get there part.

I miss Bob, as much as I enjoy Frasier.