Please help me in my research .
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by tomsteve 
"And drinking has sure caused me plenty of trouble ,I guess I need to know WHY ."
welp, beings how drinking doesn't cause trouble for non alcoholics, it could be as simple as it causes troubles because you are an alcoholic.
the simpler I make it, the simpler it is.
welp, beings how drinking doesn't cause trouble for non alcoholics, it could be as simple as it causes troubles because you are an alcoholic.
the simpler I make it, the simpler it is.
@EndGameNYC - I can see and appreciate that you've put a lot of thought into the topic. I also stress that whatever works for you and others is what people should stick with. But everyone is different.
Personally, I'm not connecting the dots as to why exploring the question is somehow an excuse to keep drinking until the answer is found. In a war, I'd be on a reconnaissance mission to find out everything about the enemy as possible. If there's a negative behavior in someone's life and the root causes are uncovered, there's a better chance of those behaviors dissapating when discovered and dealt with.
The advice of "you're broken and you shouldn't care why" is something that I don't feel *I* can accept. Forgive me if I've in any way misunderstood, though. I imagine under that, I'd be forced to willpower my way through life and continue to look at alcohol as some golden nectar I'm depriving myself of. I don't picture my self-esteem ever returning with that philosophy either. It sounds miserable.
That isn't how I want to live and I don't think I have to. While sober, I've been discovering the root causes and triggers for my drinking. I cope poorly with stress, so I take better steps to lower it. Boredom is a trigger, so I do my best to stay occupied with hobbies like reading and walking. Intraspective thought has helped expose alcohol for what it truly is: A powerful poison with no real benefits. It isn't a party favor. It's drug addiction like heroin, just in a socially accepted form. I no longer romanticize alcohol.
If during this post you feel I put any words into your mouth, that wasn't my intention. And I do stress that whatever method someone is using successfully should be continued.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,609
Hi BarrelRoll
I'll see if I can explain it again, from my perspective.
I didn't have to know why in order for me to quit.
That's the bald fact.
Later, with a clearer mind, a better perspective and a little distance, I was actually able to make a pretty decent stab at 'why'...
but I couldn't do that when I was in the middle of the morass...
and more than that...waiting for understanding all those years was just an excuse for me to keep drinking while I waited.
D
I'll see if I can explain it again, from my perspective.
I didn't have to know why in order for me to quit.
That's the bald fact.
Later, with a clearer mind, a better perspective and a little distance, I was actually able to make a pretty decent stab at 'why'...
but I couldn't do that when I was in the middle of the morass...
and more than that...waiting for understanding all those years was just an excuse for me to keep drinking while I waited.
D
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by Dee74
Hi BarrelRoll
I'll see if I can explain it again, from my perspective.
I didn't have to know why in order for me to quit.
That's the bald fact.
Later, with a clearer mind, a better perspective and a little distance, I was actually able to make a pretty decent stab at 'why'...
but I couldn't do that when I was in the middle of the morass...
and more than that...waiting for understanding all those years was just an excuse for me to keep drinking while I waited.
D
I'll see if I can explain it again, from my perspective.
I didn't have to know why in order for me to quit.
That's the bald fact.
Later, with a clearer mind, a better perspective and a little distance, I was actually able to make a pretty decent stab at 'why'...
but I couldn't do that when I was in the middle of the morass...
and more than that...waiting for understanding all those years was just an excuse for me to keep drinking while I waited.
D
I can understand the advice of "just put it down and don't think about why" to someone who just beginning to accept and tackle their drinking problem. Seems easier said than done though, honestly. Personally, I had one of those "what am I doing" moments but not everyone can or will. I certainly feel it is worth exploring when one is ready, but personality types may differ. Accepting that it "just is" without knowing why is something that makes me uncomfortable. I'm the type that has to turn over every stone I suppose.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,609
This was the part of your post I was speaking to, BR 
All I can share is how it worked for me, BR - if it's a war, it's a war within myself.
In a war, when you're overrun you fall back to regroup and rethink.
Trying to think and drink for me was a lot like trying to be a general in the middle of no mans land.
I thought that revealing my root causes would help too...it really didn't in the end, because I wasn't ready to accept I was also an alcoholic, independently of those issues which started me drinking.
Fair enough
There was probably a decade of stone overturning in my case too before I realised I needed to act more than I needed to think...wishing you the best BR
D
Personally, I'm not connecting the dots as to why exploring the question is somehow an excuse to keep drinking until the answer is found. In a war, I'd be on a reconnaissance mission to find out everything about the enemy as possible. If there's a negative behavior in someone's life and the root causes are uncovered, there's a better chance of those behaviors dissapating when discovered and dealt with.
The advice of "you're broken and you shouldn't care why" is something that I don't feel *I* can accept.
The advice of "you're broken and you shouldn't care why" is something that I don't feel *I* can accept.
In a war, when you're overrun you fall back to regroup and rethink.
Trying to think and drink for me was a lot like trying to be a general in the middle of no mans land.
I thought that revealing my root causes would help too...it really didn't in the end, because I wasn't ready to accept I was also an alcoholic, independently of those issues which started me drinking.
Accepting that it "just is" without knowing why is something that makes me uncomfortable. I'm the type that has to turn over every stone I suppose.
There was probably a decade of stone overturning in my case too before I realised I needed to act more than I needed to think...wishing you the best BR
D
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
I appreciate your thoughtful response, BR.
As you seem to suggest, and as was true for me, none of this was even possible until I first put down the drink.
I'm personally not fond of war analogies when it comes to alcoholism, but I'm also not afraid to jump in when the opportunity presents itself.
If in battle I come face-to-face with my enemy, I shoot. Trying to figure out which unit he's from, whether or not he'd try to kill me were he to know me as a person, deciding whether or not he won't try to kill me if I don't try to kill him, or having an internal debate about why war and killing are so prevalent in life...Like the Parable of the Arrow, I'd be long dead before I even considered the answer to these questions.
In my work, insight follows changes in behavior. It's been my experience that one of the most harmful assumptions people make when they enter psychotherapy is that they first need to know why they do the things they do in order to heal. For many of these people, their work in psychotherapy devolves in to years of figuring out "why?" without enacting any meaningful changes. This makes for a hefty down payment on their therapist's summer home.
When insight presides, it often leaves people at a loss as to why they cannot change their maladaptive and self-destructive behaviors once they've come to know what drives them, what motivates them. Just like almost everyone who's ever commented on SR. It rarely works out the other way around.
With sobriety, the remedy is to stop thinking and to stop talking. Many of us are skilled at both, but it's rarely more than cold comfort. The remedy is to act. In all my years of work, I've yet to find a better way.
Originally Posted by BarrelRoll
While sober, I've been discovering the root causes and triggers for my drinking.
I'm personally not fond of war analogies when it comes to alcoholism, but I'm also not afraid to jump in when the opportunity presents itself.
If in battle I come face-to-face with my enemy, I shoot. Trying to figure out which unit he's from, whether or not he'd try to kill me were he to know me as a person, deciding whether or not he won't try to kill me if I don't try to kill him, or having an internal debate about why war and killing are so prevalent in life...Like the Parable of the Arrow, I'd be long dead before I even considered the answer to these questions.
In my work, insight follows changes in behavior. It's been my experience that one of the most harmful assumptions people make when they enter psychotherapy is that they first need to know why they do the things they do in order to heal. For many of these people, their work in psychotherapy devolves in to years of figuring out "why?" without enacting any meaningful changes. This makes for a hefty down payment on their therapist's summer home.
When insight presides, it often leaves people at a loss as to why they cannot change their maladaptive and self-destructive behaviors once they've come to know what drives them, what motivates them. Just like almost everyone who's ever commented on SR. It rarely works out the other way around.
With sobriety, the remedy is to stop thinking and to stop talking. Many of us are skilled at both, but it's rarely more than cold comfort. The remedy is to act. In all my years of work, I've yet to find a better way.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by EndGameNYC
I appreciate your thoughtful response, BR.
As you seem to suggest, and as was true for me, none of this was even possible until I first put down the drink.
I'm personally not fond of war analogies when it comes to alcoholism, but I'm also not afraid to jump in when the opportunity presents itself.
If in battle I come face-to-face with my enemy, I shoot. Trying to figure out which unit he's from, whether or not he'd try to kill me were he to know me as a person, deciding whether or not he won't try to kill me if I don't try to kill him, or having an internal debate about why war and killing are so prevalent in life...Like the Parable of the Arrow, I'd be long dead before I even considered the answer to these questions.
In my work, insight follows changes in behavior. It's been my experience that one of the most harmful assumptions people make when they enter psychotherapy is that they first need to know why they do the things they do in order to heal. For many of these people, their work in psychotherapy devolves in to years of figuring out "why?" without enacting any meaningful changes. This makes for a hefty down payment on their therapist's summer home.
When insight presides, it often leaves people at a loss as to why they cannot change their maladaptive and self-destructive behaviors once they've come to know what drives them, what motivates them. Just like almost everyone who's ever commented on SR. It rarely works out the other way around.
With sobriety, the remedy is to stop thinking and to stop talking. Many of us are skilled at both, but it's rarely more than cold comfort. The remedy is to act. In all my years of work, I've yet to find a better way.
As you seem to suggest, and as was true for me, none of this was even possible until I first put down the drink.
I'm personally not fond of war analogies when it comes to alcoholism, but I'm also not afraid to jump in when the opportunity presents itself.
If in battle I come face-to-face with my enemy, I shoot. Trying to figure out which unit he's from, whether or not he'd try to kill me were he to know me as a person, deciding whether or not he won't try to kill me if I don't try to kill him, or having an internal debate about why war and killing are so prevalent in life...Like the Parable of the Arrow, I'd be long dead before I even considered the answer to these questions.
In my work, insight follows changes in behavior. It's been my experience that one of the most harmful assumptions people make when they enter psychotherapy is that they first need to know why they do the things they do in order to heal. For many of these people, their work in psychotherapy devolves in to years of figuring out "why?" without enacting any meaningful changes. This makes for a hefty down payment on their therapist's summer home.
When insight presides, it often leaves people at a loss as to why they cannot change their maladaptive and self-destructive behaviors once they've come to know what drives them, what motivates them. Just like almost everyone who's ever commented on SR. It rarely works out the other way around.
With sobriety, the remedy is to stop thinking and to stop talking. Many of us are skilled at both, but it's rarely more than cold comfort. The remedy is to act. In all my years of work, I've yet to find a better way.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
Originally Posted by karate
I am of the opinion that a large part of alocholics drink to drown bad emotions .
But if im wrong ,and I may very well be wrong .......
Are there people that can be where life is going just fine and they still drink one drink , then wind up blackout drunk .?
To be clear in the question , some people drink one drink and it sets off some kind of reaction and they drink all the alcohol in grasp .?
Im trying to understand this problem in general ,and understand my self as well .
But if im wrong ,and I may very well be wrong .......
Are there people that can be where life is going just fine and they still drink one drink , then wind up blackout drunk .?
To be clear in the question , some people drink one drink and it sets off some kind of reaction and they drink all the alcohol in grasp .?
Im trying to understand this problem in general ,and understand my self as well .
I also want know what you're up to... What exactly are you researching? Are you writing a paper or a book? The subject would probably be, "Interesting musings of alcoholics who spend their time writing about it on an alcoholic forum."
I agree with Dr. Phil on this. And the references to the arrow, war etc. Here's mine: If you came home and water was dripping from the ceiling would you A) Put a pot under the drip to collect the water. B) Find out where the leak was coming from and have it fixed. C) Put some plastic tarp on your roof and forget about it. D) Wonder why God is punishing you and pray the leak stops. E) Call in a team to analyze the possibilities of what caused the leak. Then start taking bids to get it fixed. I could go on ad nauseam.
The correct answer is....................
Stop drinking now. And figure it out later.
I must admit though, you aroused a lot of people.
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