Mental clarity ....
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Originally Posted by jdooner 
No sure I agree with your timeline (yes she stopped 3 months before the crash - not sure I agree with what you are implying though) and have no intentions of hijacking the thread but lets just stick to basic facts that are supported:
Moderation Management was founded by Audrey Kishline, a problem drinker, who did not identify with the disease theory of alcoholism (as presented in Alcoholics Anonymous and other addiction recovery twelve-step programs) finding that it eroded her self-confidence. Kishline never experienced withdrawal symptoms and was able to hold a job and stay in school while drinking. Kishline found that she could moderate her drinking with the help of cognitive-behavioral therapy principles and in 1994 founded Moderation Management as an organization for non-dependent problem drinkers to help maintain moderate alcohol use. MM maintains, however, that it is not for all problem drinkers; that there are some drinkers for whom abstinence will be the only solution.[1]
In January 2000 Kishline posted a message to an official MM email list stating that she had concluded her best drinking goal was abstinence and that she would begin attending Alcoholics Anonymous, SMART Recovery and Women For Sobriety meetings while continuing to support MM for others.[2] Having never ceased her excessive drinking, while attending Moderation Management,[2] in March 2000 she drove her truck the wrong way down a highway, and hit another vehicle head-on killing its two passengers (a father and his 12 year old daughter). MM continued to grow during Kishline's time in prison.[1] She was released in August 2003 after serving 3½ years of her 4½ year sentence.[3]
Kishline had asked many professionals for advice while she was establishing the fellowship, including psychologist Jeffrey A. Schaler, who had written the foreword for the first edition of the book, Moderate Drinking, used in the organization and served on the original board of trustees for MM.[4] Schaler and MM split ways over whether or not there was a medical distinction between problem drinkers and alcoholics, the latter having a disease and the former having a habit, and over the MM's failure to condemn Larry Froistad following his murder confession. Schaler's foreword was replaced with one by Historian Ernest Kurtz in subsequent editions.[5]
Moderation Management was founded by Audrey Kishline, a problem drinker, who did not identify with the disease theory of alcoholism (as presented in Alcoholics Anonymous and other addiction recovery twelve-step programs) finding that it eroded her self-confidence. Kishline never experienced withdrawal symptoms and was able to hold a job and stay in school while drinking. Kishline found that she could moderate her drinking with the help of cognitive-behavioral therapy principles and in 1994 founded Moderation Management as an organization for non-dependent problem drinkers to help maintain moderate alcohol use. MM maintains, however, that it is not for all problem drinkers; that there are some drinkers for whom abstinence will be the only solution.[1]
In January 2000 Kishline posted a message to an official MM email list stating that she had concluded her best drinking goal was abstinence and that she would begin attending Alcoholics Anonymous, SMART Recovery and Women For Sobriety meetings while continuing to support MM for others.[2] Having never ceased her excessive drinking, while attending Moderation Management,[2] in March 2000 she drove her truck the wrong way down a highway, and hit another vehicle head-on killing its two passengers (a father and his 12 year old daughter). MM continued to grow during Kishline's time in prison.[1] She was released in August 2003 after serving 3½ years of her 4½ year sentence.[3]
Kishline had asked many professionals for advice while she was establishing the fellowship, including psychologist Jeffrey A. Schaler, who had written the foreword for the first edition of the book, Moderate Drinking, used in the organization and served on the original board of trustees for MM.[4] Schaler and MM split ways over whether or not there was a medical distinction between problem drinkers and alcoholics, the latter having a disease and the former having a habit, and over the MM's failure to condemn Larry Froistad following his murder confession. Schaler's foreword was replaced with one by Historian Ernest Kurtz in subsequent editions.[5]
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Originally Posted by caboblanco
no speaking from medical research on people who drink in moderation and overall health and longevity..why is that such a threatening concept that i have to keep hush.
Why are you assuming its threatening?
Do you think your statement about the red wine is responsible?
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
Why are you assuming its threatening?
Do you think your statement about the red wine is responsible?
Do you think your statement about the red wine is responsible?
responsible to someones sobriety..threatening to someones sobriety..what is the difference...and no i don't think it is..anybody can find that information..and i'm not the one who brought it up
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Originally Posted by caboblanco
either way i don't think you can blame AA or moderation management for the crash...this is one person
This is just my opinion based on my experience. For me I do believe if you are an addict that you cannot use any mind altering drug (I am including alcohol here) if it is to escape reality, ever. I believe chemically the way an addicts brain is wired that using a substance or behavior to compensate will always lead to the same place and this is driven by a broken reward motivation pathway. MRI and PET scans made available by modern medicine seem to support this view too.
Again, this is just my experience and opinion.
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Originally Posted by caboblanco
responsible to someones sobriety..threatening to someones sobriety..what is the difference...and no i don't think it is..anybody can find that information..and i'm not the one who brought it up
For me, cabo, you seem clueless to where your really posting. People here are not threatened by pro-moderated drinking statements. SR is a real part of the real world. Since you said your not talking from your own experience with drinking wine in moderation, what was your point then?
I don't think you understand what responsibility on a sober recovery board actually is, you know?
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Originally Posted by karate
I'm saying I was shocked at how 3 beers impacted my mental ability .
I tried to do a task , but could not think correctly .
I was shocked actually
I tried to do a task , but could not think correctly .
I was shocked actually
I'm thinking your being disingenuous. You've drank thousands of beers over your time. Think about that.
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Originally Posted by karate
I'm saying I was shocked at how 3 beers impacted my mental ability .
I tried to do a task , but could not think correctly .
I was shocked actually
I tried to do a task , but could not think correctly .
I was shocked actually
Its a cold and its a broken hallelujah.
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Originally Posted by karate
I'm saying I was shocked at how 3 beers impacted my mental ability .
I tried to do a task , but could not think correctly .
I was shocked actually
I tried to do a task , but could not think correctly .
I was shocked actually
I genuinely hope this is your "AH HA" moment.
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Originally Posted by Sudz No More
If I had Mod status I would close this thread, nothing useful here
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Originally Posted by karate
I'm saying I was shocked at how 3 beers impacted my mental ability .
I tried to do a task , but could not think correctly .
I was shocked actually
I tried to do a task , but could not think correctly .
I was shocked actually
Perhaps you might want to think about the fact that you are drinking less and getting impaired by a lower tolerance?
I did not see your post when I was writing - looks like my assumptions were correct. Let me edit: Being in the limbo stage between fighting whether your an alcoholic and acceptance is the worst part of this disease/disorder whatever you want to call it - I simplify to addiction. You will get there and post away as much as need be. But also recognize posts promoting or implying promotion of moderation are going to strike a nerve on a recovery site.
I hope you can get a moment of clarity bc I fear you are on slippery slope but are a really good person that does not deserve the hell you are imposing on yourself.
Just my 2 cents.
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Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
I see.
For me, cabo, you seem clueless to where your really posting. People here are not threatened by pro-moderated drinking statements. SR is a real part of the real world. Since you said your not talking from your own experience with drinking wine in moderation, what was your point then?
I don't think you understand what responsibility on a sober recovery board actually is, you know?
For me, cabo, you seem clueless to where your really posting. People here are not threatened by pro-moderated drinking statements. SR is a real part of the real world. Since you said your not talking from your own experience with drinking wine in moderation, what was your point then?
I don't think you understand what responsibility on a sober recovery board actually is, you know?
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Originally Posted by karate
I'm actually trying to determine if I'm an alocholic or not .
If I am , I need to determine the correct course of action .
Is that fair enough
If I am , I need to determine the correct course of action .
Is that fair enough
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Originally Posted by karate
I'm actually trying to determine if I'm an alocholic or not .
If I am , I need to determine the correct course of action .
Is that fair enough
If I am , I need to determine the correct course of action .
Is that fair enough
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Originally Posted by caboblanco
i don't take responsibility for someone relapsing or whatever just because i stated a fact about moderate wine consumption...but I don't disrespect your opinion. I in no way told people they should moderate if they have a problem..that is quite an assumption
Stating facts is one thing. Where and when you say it is also important. I'm talking about personal responsibility, not your being responsible for others actions.
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Originally Posted by karate
I'm saying I was shocked at how 3 beers impacted my mental ability .
I tried to do a task , but could not think correctly .
I was shocked actually
I tried to do a task , but could not think correctly .
I was shocked actually
Friend, and i say this with love....I ran 3 miles before 9am yesterday, then worked until almost 2am this morning drinking nothing but ice cold water. Thus, I'd be shocked if you're actually sober right now. You do realize that you're corresponding with people who not only do not drink, or use drugs, but that are mentally and physically active don't you?
Alcohol doesn't make things "better." Never has never will. In fact, life will only get more difficult until you decide to stop. Do you think you can stop for just one, day? That's all i ever ask of myself.
Its a cold and its a broken hallelujah.
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Provocation almost always ensues as a result of your posts Karate. 
I appreciate questioning the status quo. Question everything as far as I'm concerned.
There are two ways of doing things. The right way and the hard way. Since I have no real knowledge of the promise of what sobriety brings, I lean on those who have more time under their belts to remind me of what lies on the otherside of the bottle.
I tried to do it my way, the hard way. And I've never failed at something so miserably as I did that.
You have to come to terms with your alcoholism in your own way. In your own time.
Id like to believe you are thisclose.
Thanks for answering my question.
I appreciate questioning the status quo. Question everything as far as I'm concerned. There are two ways of doing things. The right way and the hard way. Since I have no real knowledge of the promise of what sobriety brings, I lean on those who have more time under their belts to remind me of what lies on the otherside of the bottle.
I tried to do it my way, the hard way. And I've never failed at something so miserably as I did that.
You have to come to terms with your alcoholism in your own way. In your own time.
Id like to believe you are thisclose.
Thanks for answering my question.
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