yeahgr8

I don't know who used it first. I know that the World Health Committee refused to use the term alcoholism.

Once again there are 3 people/bodies that I know of in the USA that use alcoholism in their medical terminology:

1. Surgeon General if the USA
2. AMA
3. NIAAA

try and find out why they use the term and where they got it from, clearly they think it is from Science/Medicine. You keep walking into these;-)

caboblanco

I'm not walking into anything...you have no proof.. give me any evidence of science behind the term alcoholism or alcoholic disease. I would love to see that..I really would and I'm being totally honest

jdooner

Can you provide and scientific evidence supporting the genetic model? I used to think this way too. Seems like that is the conventional view of the 80s and 90s but has largely moved to an environmental or combination of environmental/genetic predisposition model.

If you believe it is genetic I can see why you need to believe its a disease - this is logical. What I don't think is logical is concluding its genetic though.

jdooner

The US continues to wage a War on Drugs in spite of all reasonable evidence that suggests the efficacy is non existent. I am not sure I would use a Government body to rely on the disease model. The disease model was used for funding plane and simple - this is not a bad thing in my opinion but not based on fact.

soberlicious

Well, beyond my point being explanatory, I do believe that since one can only become alcoholic by drinking (assuming that they have not been forced at gunpoint to drink) the disease comes by one's own hand. It is a 100% preventable disease, yes? And although you believe it can never be cured, surely you agree that remission rates are 100% guaranteed by an individual's behavior. It would be difficult to say that about other diseases.

And what about this disease of nicotinism I had? What caused me to continue to smoke for years despite the consequences? I tried not to smoke near my infants who were also born early, but honestly it was just too hard. Damned disease.

How does science go about proving that a disease is indeed and unequivocally caused by a lack of spirituality or broken spirituality? What would that even look like in a double blind study?

yeahgr8

Interesting point, why do you think a lot of the medical bodies don't simply call it addiction? Because that over simplifies it and doesn't help to understand why the person became addicted in the first place.

Addiction is a difficult one IMO. A doctor would say that the person could be addicted to a substance for as long as it takes the body to expel all traces of that substance. Alcohol takes a few days to get out the system and after that it is impossible to be physically addicted.

Over to the head doctors who will look at addiction as both a physical and psychological issue. So let's say that a person stats off alcohol for a year, the habit is broken as is the physical addiction so why does he drink again, sometimes repeating the pattern until he dies.

So then you have, say, AA who believe that addiction is not just mental and physical but a make up if that person and only a drastic personality change will prevent the person from drinking again.

Usually after the docs and head docs are pulling their hair out they usually send the person down to AA because at that point there is not a lot the medical fraternity can do except keep detoxing/giving him medication and sending him home.

Interesting.

yeahgr8

Can you show some proof that the 3 concerns I listed called alcoholism a disease for funding, as I have proven clearly that they all agree alcoholism is a disease?

yeahgr8

What about diabetes? There are people that are prone to diabetes, I.e. If it is in the family, who never get diabetes and there are people that show signs of early stages of diabetes who then change lifestyle and never get diabetes. That sounds exactly the same as alcoholism.

The word alcoholic is pretty much an AA one to be fair, not everyone is in AA so it might be breeze to use alcoholism, it's more generic and more recognised, just a suggestion?

soberlicious

Do you believe that people's bodies are different when it comes to alcohol? Do you believe that anyone is capable of becoming addicted to alcohol if they drank enough of it? Or that some people could drink all day every day and never develop an addiction?

The difference between a strawberry and alcohol or other drugs is that a strawberry is not going to flood the brain artificially and result in deep pleasure. A lab rat is not going to hit a lever repeatedly and poison itself for a strawberry, but it will for a high.

NoelleR

The term "dipsomania" was coined by German physician Dr. C. W. Hufeland in 1819 before it was superseded by "alcoholism." The term "alcoholism" was first used in 1849 by the Swedish physician Magnus Huss to describe the systematic adverse effects of alcohol.

(o:
NoelleR

jdooner

Can you prove its genetic? This debate is becoming opinions. You cite three Government bodies as your rationale to show proof.

Between 1980 and 1991, medical organizations, including the AMA, worked together to establish policies regarding their positions on the disease theory. These policies were developed in 1987 in part because third-party reimbursement for treatment was difficult or impossible unless alcoholism were categorized as a disease. The policies of the AMA, formed through consensus of the federation of state and specialty medical societies within their House of Delegates, state, in part:
"The AMA endorses the proposition that drug dependencies, including alcoholism, are diseases and that their treatment is a legitimate part of medical practice."
In 1991, the AMA further endorsed the dual classification of alcoholism by the International Classification of Diseases under both psychiatric and medical sections.

ScottFromWI

I fail to see how semantics arguments such as these provide any help for those struggling with or maintaining their sobriety.

jdooner

They don't this is all about ego

soberlicious

It is my understanding that type 2 is largely preventable. That also puts into question whether treatment of it should be covered by insurance. I think it is in the best interest of rehabilitation centers and the recovery movement in general for alcoholism to be considered a disease.

yeahgr8

I cite 3 government bodies rather than 3 random blogs because they carry more weight with most people. It all becomes a bit of a man down the bar debate where there is complete absence of any proof at all save the barmaids opinion.

Here is a genetic study. There are also references to various studies at the bottom of the page. The Collaborative Study on the Genetics of Alcoholism: An Update

Just because you put something in quotation marks in a post doesn't mean it is from a source that might be considered to know what they are talking about.

Can you give proof in the form of sources, I.e. Government bodies, medical bodies, university studies, anything?

caboblanco

Call me crazy but I think patients should be told the truth about their affliction. Ethics aside I believe the truth yields the best result.

RobbyRobot

And what does this suggest? You know fully well that contemporary scientists (not all of course) use the term alcoholism in their current research and in their applied sciences relative to alcoholism. So what is your point, please?

jdooner

I thnk I am done with this rabbit hole exercise - I jumped in the ring to show how I have grown. See I once argued your position. Against Cabo actually. It pissed me off bc I lost the debate - or perceived that I had lost. So I did more research and I found, Cabo actually has a legit point on this topic. You will find the more work you do that your position is weak at best.

I am going to duck out though bc this serves no positive purpose. You can call that a win if you want and keep seeing thing myopically, or you could be like me and be open and do some more work and understand the other side of the argument.

Either way I wish you the best

yeahgr8

IMO it is a good idea to get things straight in ones own head before passing it onto someone else who might be looking for help in a life and death situation? I don't think we will get anywhere as much as if I was trying to explain how going swimming directly after eating cannot produce cramps and is a myth but hey I'm working from home and away from friends/family at the moment so have time. At the end of the day we are all trying to move forward in our own ways.

yeahgr8

I respect that but why can't you post what you found to back up Cabo (I didn't know who that was lol it took me a couple of mins to realise you meant a poster).

Before you duck out, if it's ok, what's the message you have for the newcomer who wants to know more about what he is suffering from!

There is no winner in this discussion, I know what I believe I would just like to see what other people believe to the extent they are willing to give that opinion to other people?