SoberLife2014

Do our loved ones ever really forgive us? When does the past quit rearing it's ugly head in arguments? Will the trust ever come back?

Dee74

It depends on your partner I guess, but most of the people in my life who knew me then have forgiven me. It took a little time tho but I do think trust can be regained

This includes one partner...the other partner I have no contact with by her request so I guess I'm batting 50/50.

Leana

I hate when people use the past in present arguments, I don't think it's fair fighting. When you're not in the middle of it, sit your partner down and talk about bringing up the past.

KateL

They throw it in your face when they are losing and argument and have nowhere else to go. I ignore it completely. I had to get rid of the oh in the end. He was a bully. All the years I was drunk, I hadn't even noticed ~ I really thought it was me. Not saying that you should get rid of yours, but throwing the past in a person's face is not valid during a disagreement. Anyone that is important to me has forgiven me totally.

MIRecovery

I say, "I'm not that person any more."

Yes, things get better. Maybe not 100% but much much better

KateL

So did I, so many times, I sounded like a broken record so he got the heave-ho. Some do it to hide their own inadequacies. I felt like the proverbial scapegoat

Hevyn

Hi zelda.

My husband never brings it up unless I do - he's just so glad I got well. Surprisingly my mother has been the last to try and understand. She seemed to take it personally & doesn't really know what alcoholism actually is.

I definitely believe the trust can come back. The old memories will fade (or should).

Mountainmanbob

in most cases it just takes time
problem with an alcoholic such as myself
when I had a big 3 or 4 weeks sober
I thought all should be forgiven by others
yes - I expected things way too fast

once I stayed sober for 6 months or so
and did the right moral things day after day for a good period of time
loved ones and friends started to see the new sober me

at the 5 year point most all of the bad had been forgotten and or forgiven

MB

KateL

Absolutely agree Bob x

Breezie

Hi Zelda,

I hope you don't mind hearing from the other side. Your post struck me as this is a current issue between my RAH and me.

I have forgiven my H, I needed to for my own serenity. I do get accused of bringing up the past, and I suppose I do. I do because in our almost two years of recovery together, he does not want to talk about it. I believe in awareness, acknowledgement and acceptance, and I have failed to see his awareness or acknowledgement. He believes it was only the drugs that made him do bad things, and now that he is sober that is no longer relevant. What I see is denial, and a failure to address his character defects that still affect our relationship on a regular basis. I could certainly blame all my defects on his using and drinking, but that is not the truth, they are of my own making. I would like to see the same in him to know we are moving in a positive direction.

That being said, if you have done the work, live your new way of life now and have tried to make amends to the best of your ability, it is on your partner and not fair at all for them to continually throw it in your face. Both partners need to own their part and work every day to rebuild and forgive. Things can't work if it is all one sided. Trust will come back if you continue to be open and honest, and they are willing to see that. Unfortunately, we can't make our partners follow our will, or even God's will unless they choose to follow His will on their own.

I hope that is helpful to you and made sense, I wish you all the best

EndGameNYC

I should just make this my sig...Trust is the first thing we lose, and the last thing we get back.

After making full and proper amends, to the extent that my past behaviors have no bearing on my present behaviors, the past is irrelevant.

Ignoring the past because it makes me uncomfortable to bring it up is not the same as making amends.

As has been said or suggested, my bad behavior was never a one-off while I was drinking, and forgiveness does not -- and I would argue, should not -- come as a single event or without amends having been made.

It's also a reality that for some things, some people simply cannot grant forgiveness.

Threshold

Even people who don't "believe" in divorce often say it's understandable in three circumstance...the three A's...addiction, abuse, adultery.

Sad thing is addiction very often includes abuse and adultery.

There are spouses that can get past that, and many marriages continue, grow and thrive. But many people cannot get past and trust after a spouse commits one of the big three. Sometimes they truly truly try, but find they can't.

Also, as far as "but I'm not that person anymore..." well, the drug is gone, but does that totally change who we are? It's rather like saying "yeah, I cheated on you, but I broke up with him. He's not in my life anymore.. get over it."

It's not that simple or easy to just get over it. Something sacred has been broken. And they (understandably) worry over whether it will happen a gain, or what it means that it happened in the first place.

"I swear honey, I'll never hit you again..." doesn't make the broken arm and fractured jaw go away. Doesn't make the fear go away.

I hope this makes sense.

EndGameNYC

You're making a great deal of sense, Threshold. Your comments here should be required reading for everyone in a relationship with an alcoholic, addict, spouse abuser, and infidelitist. (I made that word up.)

The alcoholic's/abuser's/infidelitist's oath of office.

SoberLife2014

Thank you for all your replies. What happened was we had a disagreement about parenting styles. Ever since I've been sober I've stood up for what I believe a little more rather than backing down and drinking my feelings away. So when I didn't back down it eventually escalated to where he lost his temper, threw a plateful of food at the wall, and broke three chairs against our countertop. Luckily no one got hurt. Afterward he apologized and said he was angry because he felt like I was judging him and I was a hypocrite for some of the things I did while in my alcoholism. That night I felt bad because I felt like somehow this was all my fault and I pushed him to do this. But I didn't make him smash those chairs. I probably could have walked away when I saw he was escalating, but I can't be blamed for everything wrong in our marriage from now on. If I could go back and fix it I would. Yeah I screwed up and I feel guilty about it but I can't change the past.

DG0409

Zelda- You didn't push him to do what he did. No matter how angry one gets, that's not an excuse for breaking things. It sounds like he has some serious problems handling his emotions/anger. It seems like maybe he doesn't like you standing up for yourself and by breaking things he's trying to scare you into not doing so in the future. His apology seems like it wasn't so much as apologizing for his inappropriate behavior, but rather blaming you for it. Maybe it's not my place to say this, but things like smashing furniture can be a big red flag for abusive relationships. Please take care of yourself.

Breezie

Ugh, Zelda, that is not ok. There are no excuses for violence, and smashing things is violent even if it wasn't laying hands on you. I have been in that situation, broken doors, holes in walls etc, and it is scary and feels like that violence could be directed at you at any time even if it hasn't been in the past. It is not your fault, you were not being a hypocrite. There is just no excuse. Is he in recovery at all? Or at least anger management?

Walking away is not backing down. I have learned myself that there are times when I have to say in a very calm voice when things are escalating, "I feel uncomfortable because I am feeling a lot of anger directed at me. I am very willing to return to this topic when things have calmed down." He needs to take responsibility for his actions (or reactions may be a better word), not your fault or the past's fault.

I wish I had more wisdom, I can only say that I am very very sorry. I think you have already owned your part, not walking away. I can understand why you didnt at first also, it makes sense to me. Other than that, it is on him. ((((Big hugs))))

Threshold

No Zelda you didn't make him do those things, even anything you did while you were drinking didn't make him do those things. He is responsible for his behavior.

No matter what any of us FEEL, we STILL have the responsibilty of choosing how we react. Throwing things, breaking things etc stops being ok at about the age of two years.

You are not responsible for everything in your marriage. You are only responsible for your part. Even when one partner is drinking etc...there are STILL two people in the marriage and still two people making choices.

Sometimes when one partner was drinking...they are used as the scapegoat, easy to point the finger etc. But that doesn't make it true.

Saying "I had to break the furniture today because you drank last year" doesn't add up.

big hugs.

Have you ever thought of looking into Al-anon? Many of us alcoholics have codependency issues and need help learning that we don't cause or control the behavior of others (even when they blame us for it) and we can't cure or change their behavior (only they can)

Glad you started this discussion. We're here for you

ImperfectlyMe

seems he's lost control in controlling you.

SoberLife2014

I think we might have a long road ahead of us. I think he's happy about my sobriety, but with it there are some changes that he might not like. I have had to make some changes in me. That includes not backing down for something I believe in just to avoid a fight. He does have some anger issues, and he acknowledges them. He has been working on them, but what he did yesterday was unacceptable. I think he also has some unresolved issues with what I did during my alcoholism. I never cheated on him, but hiding alcohol behind his back definitely broke his trust in me. Nonetheless, I'm just hoping that eventually we can move forward in our marriage and grow. I have alcohol problems which I am working on and have successfully stayed sober for almost 7 months. He has supported me through a lot of crap. I am willing to support him through this anger issue he apparently has as well as long as me and my baby are safe. But I don't think bringing up anything like that from the past will help us grow. I'm just wondering what other people have had to go through in their marriage after alcoholism. What have been some trials and how did you overcome them? I'd love to hear it from both sides. Any suggestions for what I could do to possibly help things? I haven't made my amends yet. I'd love to, but I'm still on step 4. I'm hoping that will help.

SoberLife2014

I hope that last post made sense. It's riddled with horrible grammar.