Allergy to Alcohol?
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Allergy to Alcohol?
Okay, I don't mean any insult to anyone, but alcohol IS NOT AN ALLERGEN to alcoholics. If it was, we wouldn't drink it as it would cause severe histamine reactions etc.
Dr. Bob may have been a smart guy, but he sure as s&*t did'nt know jack about ETOH's body to the body and the mind. He was a proctologist in the 1930's. Deify him all you want (and my grandfather knew Dr. Bob and Bill W. and spoke at meetings, so it's not like I have no skin in the game), but their theories around alcoholism are just wrong.
Dr. Bob may have been a smart guy, but he sure as s&*t did'nt know jack about ETOH's body to the body and the mind. He was a proctologist in the 1930's. Deify him all you want (and my grandfather knew Dr. Bob and Bill W. and spoke at meetings, so it's not like I have no skin in the game), but their theories around alcoholism are just wrong.
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It is an allergen in the sense that my my body, not just my mind reacts abnormally to it. Abnormal bodily reaction. Dr. Silkworth coined that descriptor....not Doctor Bob or Bill Wilson.
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If I'm wrong, please let me know.
It's a bad metaphor that has been extended by generations of well-meaning but ignorant people. It's time to drop the 1930's jargon and catch up with the rest of the world.
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Raufoss, to some extent I tend to agree with the change of the times bit, but the structure of the wording back then is a sign of where medical discoveries and science were at.
Silkworth was right on the ball, he quoted, manifestation of an allergy.
He could not quite see what it was in a physical sense because the technology was not available at the time.
But he knew something was different between a certain class of drinkers, primarily those who ended up in them psychiatric wards.
A few years later, the 50's I think, this physical side of what happens metabolically when alcohol is consumed was proven correct, that Silkworth's theory was actually proven.
The breakdown of alcohol between normal drinkers and chronic drinkers is different. The discovery was found to be primarily the enzymes produced by the liver and pancreas once the body senses alcohol has entered the system. It was proven beyond doubt, that the rate or "speed" of metabolism is slower in the alcoholic than moderate drinkers.
At some stage of the process, when the alcohol breakdown has progressed to Acetaldehyde, it remains in the body longer.
This is the cause of physical craving. The body is telling the mind, "more alcohol". This becomes rather overwhelming and the mind succumbs to the body's "petition". Logic to not drink is defied and delusions that "one more will be OK" become rather pronounced.
Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaAcetaldehyde
An "allergy" by definition is "abnormal reaction"
allergy - definition of allergy by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Therefore, when one alcoholic identifies with another alcoholic as laypeople, not doctors or specialists etc, it's that feeling of wanting more alcohol.
So by the 3rd drink lots of alcohol has reached the brain, alcohol in the brain diminishes all or most senses of what's going on,personality changes, the craving for more increases, and then as far as I know, blackout.
The Powerless over alcohol then becomes obvious, it's part physical, part mental.
The physical part, that is to get the liver and pancreas to produce more enzymes of quality and quantity is simply not there.
We cannot mentally will the liver and the pancreas to produce more of the stuff to breakdown the alcohol like others who stop and have no more.
Does alcohol discriminate if one is educated as a doctor, ( Dr Bob ), a degree in rocket science, or a brickies laborer ?
Keep the BB as it is, it is simpler to understand and accept, but by all means do your own research to get a clearer understanding of Powerless over Alcohol.....,
Silkworth was right on the ball, he quoted, manifestation of an allergy.
He could not quite see what it was in a physical sense because the technology was not available at the time.
But he knew something was different between a certain class of drinkers, primarily those who ended up in them psychiatric wards.
A few years later, the 50's I think, this physical side of what happens metabolically when alcohol is consumed was proven correct, that Silkworth's theory was actually proven.
The breakdown of alcohol between normal drinkers and chronic drinkers is different. The discovery was found to be primarily the enzymes produced by the liver and pancreas once the body senses alcohol has entered the system. It was proven beyond doubt, that the rate or "speed" of metabolism is slower in the alcoholic than moderate drinkers.
At some stage of the process, when the alcohol breakdown has progressed to Acetaldehyde, it remains in the body longer.
This is the cause of physical craving. The body is telling the mind, "more alcohol". This becomes rather overwhelming and the mind succumbs to the body's "petition". Logic to not drink is defied and delusions that "one more will be OK" become rather pronounced.
Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaAcetaldehyde
It is also produced by oxidation of ethylene and is the cause of hangovers from alcohol consumption, produced in the liver by the enzyme alcohol
allergy - definition of allergy by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Therefore, when one alcoholic identifies with another alcoholic as laypeople, not doctors or specialists etc, it's that feeling of wanting more alcohol.
So by the 3rd drink lots of alcohol has reached the brain, alcohol in the brain diminishes all or most senses of what's going on,personality changes, the craving for more increases, and then as far as I know, blackout.
The Powerless over alcohol then becomes obvious, it's part physical, part mental.
The physical part, that is to get the liver and pancreas to produce more enzymes of quality and quantity is simply not there.
We cannot mentally will the liver and the pancreas to produce more of the stuff to breakdown the alcohol like others who stop and have no more.
Does alcohol discriminate if one is educated as a doctor, ( Dr Bob ), a degree in rocket science, or a brickies laborer ?
Keep the BB as it is, it is simpler to understand and accept, but by all means do your own research to get a clearer understanding of Powerless over Alcohol.....,
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Perhaps you are truly allergic to alcohol. Lucky man (person). I wish I was allergic to ETOH, as it would make my decision to drink or not much easier.
Regarding medical science etc., it's not like we're talking about a rare genetic disorder. People have been struggling with alcohol since before we had written languages. Alexander the Great's death was, if not caused, probably hastened by his relationship with the fruit of the vine. That being said, our understanding of the relationship between man and alcohol has lagged behind other medical advances.
Just my $0.02.
Regarding medical science etc., it's not like we're talking about a rare genetic disorder. People have been struggling with alcohol since before we had written languages. Alexander the Great's death was, if not caused, probably hastened by his relationship with the fruit of the vine. That being said, our understanding of the relationship between man and alcohol has lagged behind other medical advances.
Just my $0.02.
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Perhaps I don't have the enzyme to break it down ? My chest and face flush bright red, my heart pounds and will break out in hives on my neck.
But I would think if I had a true allergy, I would probably go into anaphylaxis rather then drinking right on through the uncomfortableness.
SMDH...
But I would think if I had a true allergy, I would probably go into anaphylaxis rather then drinking right on through the uncomfortableness.
SMDH...
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Originally Posted by Raufoss 
I hate to derail a thread, but you're wrong. Dr. Bob was wrong, Bill W. was wrong, and you are wrong. There is no allergy associated with ETOH among alcoholics. We have a particular inclination of the mind, but we do not have anything approaching a physical allergy.
It's a bad metaphor that has been extended by generations of well-meaning but ignorant people. It's time to drop the 1930's jargon and catch up with the rest of the world.
It's a bad metaphor that has been extended by generations of well-meaning but ignorant people. It's time to drop the 1930's jargon and catch up with the rest of the world.
As I wised up, I realized all the nonsense that we argue over is meaningless. My issue was my ego and it was too bad, as it sounds like yours is.
If you have a better program, start it. There is room for others - Tingley did so.
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Originally Posted by jdooner
I was like you smarter than everyone else…I mean I am an alcoholic and an addict and read two or three books plus with Google, I mean that makes me smarter than practiced psychologists and doctors and people working in rehab right?
As I wised up, I realized all the nonsense that we argue over is meaningless. My issue was my ego and it was too bad, as it sounds like yours is.
If you have a better program, start it. There is room for others - Tingley did so.
As I wised up, I realized all the nonsense that we argue over is meaningless. My issue was my ego and it was too bad, as it sounds like yours is.
If you have a better program, start it. There is room for others - Tingley did so.
My dad was a physician, I have postgraduate degrees in the area, and yes, I know something about what I talk about. Just because the high holy saint Dr. Bob said it doesn't make it so.
On the other hand, there are good lessons to be learned from everyone. It's up to the individual (that would be YOU) to make their own decisions on how they go forward with their life. I have nothing to gain -- or lose -- by your success or your failure in recovery. I wish you the best because I happen to be a nice guy. Cheers.
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Websters defines allergen as an “altered bodily reactivity (as hypersensitivity) to an antigen in response to a first exposure”.
As an alcoholic I have an altered bodily reactivity to any alcohol (ETOH). I react quite differently when ingesting it than a majority of the population. It has an injurious and potentially fatal effect on me. That fits the definition of alergy. From what I understand my body processes the alcohol differently than other folks, so at least part of the process is wholly physiological.
Please show me where Dr. Bob referred to alcohol as an allergen. To my knowledge it was Dr. Silkworth who did so, beginning in the mid 30’s, and it was Bill who continued to do so within the context of AA.
As an alcoholic I have an altered bodily reactivity to any alcohol (ETOH). I react quite differently when ingesting it than a majority of the population. It has an injurious and potentially fatal effect on me. That fits the definition of alergy. From what I understand my body processes the alcohol differently than other folks, so at least part of the process is wholly physiological.
Please show me where Dr. Bob referred to alcohol as an allergen. To my knowledge it was Dr. Silkworth who did so, beginning in the mid 30’s, and it was Bill who continued to do so within the context of AA.
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Just wondering what the OP expected to accomplish, or who he intended to help, with his comments.
The AA founders and early contributors were at the mercy of the science and technology of their time. They may not have been fully correct in their assertions, but they sure did help alleviate a lifetime of suffering among millions of people who were "duped" into believing that they have an allergy.
The AA founders and early contributors were at the mercy of the science and technology of their time. They may not have been fully correct in their assertions, but they sure did help alleviate a lifetime of suffering among millions of people who were "duped" into believing that they have an allergy.
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Speaking for myself, and nobody else,
I certainly don't want folks to start drinking if they have been abstinent or thinking of the like. If you don't want to drink then don't.
That being said, all of your wishful thinking doesn't change ETOH. If it was a real allergen, you'd see all sorts of related effects (hives etc.).
I certainly don't want folks to start drinking if they have been abstinent or thinking of the like. If you don't want to drink then don't.
That being said, all of your wishful thinking doesn't change ETOH. If it was a real allergen, you'd see all sorts of related effects (hives etc.).
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Originally Posted by Raufoss
Wow, apparently I hit a nerve.
My dad was a physician, I have postgraduate degrees in the area, and yes, I know something about what I talk about. Just because the high holy saint Dr. Bob said it doesn't make it so.
On the other hand, there are good lessons to be learned from everyone. It's up to the individual (that would be YOU) to make their own decisions on how they go forward with their life. I have nothing to gain -- or lose -- by your success or your failure in recovery. I wish you the best because I happen to be a nice guy. Cheers.
My dad was a physician, I have postgraduate degrees in the area, and yes, I know something about what I talk about. Just because the high holy saint Dr. Bob said it doesn't make it so.
On the other hand, there are good lessons to be learned from everyone. It's up to the individual (that would be YOU) to make their own decisions on how they go forward with their life. I have nothing to gain -- or lose -- by your success or your failure in recovery. I wish you the best because I happen to be a nice guy. Cheers.
I have a Ph.D but its in Engineering not medicine or addiction. I have no expertise here. I am not supporting Dr. Bob and it sounds like its Silkworth anyhow - I just don't see the point in these posts other than for the OP to go into peacock mode. I have done the same thing so its not judgement. I am trying to save you some mental gymnastics, unless you just want to argue with a bunch of drunks - yes i am one.
If it helps, I am fine with you winning - its not an allergen
For others working the program the idea or concept that its like peanuts if they were allergic to peanuts is also fine if it helps them get and stay sober.
I too wish you the best in your recovery if you are in recovery.
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I believe OP is taking issue with the use of words to mean whatever the speaker chooses. For example, I have a strange physical reaction when I consume peanut butter, it thtickth to the woof of my mouf. No matter how the definition of allergy is dumbed down for the layperson, this ain't an allergy. Calling it an allergy does not make it so, nor does it legitimize my apparent inability to spread it on bread and wash it down with a glass of milk, instead of trying to spoon it straight from the jar down my gullet.
Many of these assertions were limited by the ignorance of the time, agreed. That does not excuse their perpetuation today.
Many of these assertions were limited by the ignorance of the time, agreed. That does not excuse their perpetuation today.
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I'm allergic to alcohol..... I break out in handcuffs!!
My dad was a physician, I have postgraduate degrees in the area, and yes, I know something about what I talk about.
Many ex-drinkers know something about their own experiences of suffering from drinking alcohol, what are your experiences when or if you drink alcohol ?
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