Allergy to Alcohol?
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
No. An allergy is an abnormal immune system response. You know, IgE antibodies specific to a particular allergen which then induce the body to produce histamine, that sort of thing.
Handcuffs, blackouts, DUIs, divorces, are not indicative of an allergy.
Handcuffs, blackouts, DUIs, divorces, are not indicative of an allergy.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,949
it's interesting. the "allergy theory" might have derived from the phenomena called the "kindling effect" before it was really discovered. Any hard core alcoholic will surely experience this if they go back to drinking after a short
while of sobriety. Its not a histamine response..but in my experience a whole lot worse. well you won't die as can happen with some allergic reactions but you might wish you were dead.
while of sobriety. Its not a histamine response..but in my experience a whole lot worse. well you won't die as can happen with some allergic reactions but you might wish you were dead.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: California
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by Boleo 
How many times do we have to tell you... It was not Dr. Bob's idea. You are parroting a fallacy. Repeating it does not make it so. Shouting it does not make it so. Telling us your credentials does not make it so.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".
- Albert Einstein
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".
- Albert Einstein
Imprecision and lies seem to to be facile to our nature. It is a pity.
Guest
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 64
raufoss - i may be wrong but i seem to remember reading some recent scientific articles concerning how the liver and pancreas of an alcoholic process alcohol in some screwed up way. although when the basic text of alcoholics anonymous was written it was just a controversial theory, there appears to be much supporting documentation now? no? hit me, baby...
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,378
just a 2nd reminder to keep things civil.
Lets veer back to the first kind of discussion...it's possible to hold a view without denigrating another...
and lets avoid loaded terms like blathering...
thanks
D
Originally Posted by Morning Glory, Administrator
Discussions are fine. Respectful disagreements are fine too. I consider a discussion a conversation when all parties are listening to each other and sharing ideas. Respectful disagreements are disagreements that still allow the other person their own opinion. Discussions are showing an interest in understanding why another feels a certain way. We listen intently as they explain themselves and are free to admit any error in our own ways of thinking. A discussion is a cooperative effort and seeks resolution resulting in a peaceful end even when there are disagreements. Discussions help all to gain a better understanding of both sides of the issue.
Debates [for the purpose of this forum] are when posters only want to express themselves and discredit the opinions of others in a disrespectful way. Attacking someone else's ideas is not appropriate. Defending a belief that doesn't relate to the purpose or topics of this forum is not appropriate. Posts that flame or mock another recovery method, spiritual belief, sexual preference, race, disability, mental illness, moderator, or member etc.. are inappropriate. Off site links with similar content are also inappropriate.
Debates [for the purpose of this forum] are when posters only want to express themselves and discredit the opinions of others in a disrespectful way. Attacking someone else's ideas is not appropriate. Defending a belief that doesn't relate to the purpose or topics of this forum is not appropriate. Posts that flame or mock another recovery method, spiritual belief, sexual preference, race, disability, mental illness, moderator, or member etc.. are inappropriate. Off site links with similar content are also inappropriate.
and lets avoid loaded terms like blathering...
thanks
D
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
Originally Posted by BPositive
What's funny is that alcohol is in fact a poison.. whether it is an allergy or not, it is not a natural substance to be consuming. There's a reason our body goes into overdrive once it's consumed, attempting to rid it from our systems as quickly as possible.
As for the breaking out in handcuffs, I heard someone say they're allergic cause it makes them break out in spots. California, Mexico, New Jersey... They never knew where they were going to wake up once they started drinking.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 567
Will only those with the allergy become addicted? And will those with the allergy always become addicted?
If it was "Spots on skin" because of coming into contact with bee's wax, then the allergy is, "phenomenon of bees wax skin spots".
Not everyone gets spots on skin when coming into contact with bees wax, and not everyone develops this phenomenon of craving for more alcohol after the first drink.
However, with the alcohol "allergy" it is usually identified by one alcoholic talking to another alcoholic about their own personal experiences, of that inner experience when drinking alcohol, they crave more.
At what stage of the drinking career one crosses that invisible line from moderate drinker to full blown uncontrollable drinking is different with everyone is my guess.
When I Identified if I was real alcoholic or not, my ID was with those who were blackout drinkers from as far back as we can remember.
In other words, we have no idea of what it's like to drink moderately because we have never experienced it. It's either On or it's Off.This "allergy" always existed, but would know it was there. How does one "see" it?
Each has their own experiences of suffering when drinking alcohol.
So the real question is, do we want to stop drinking or stop suffering?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: California
Posts: 41
Apologies, Dee. "Blathering" is indeed a loaded word.
I still think that "allergy" is at best imprecise, at worst misleading. I also don't think that the 1930's excuses anything -- they knew what allergies were. Again, if it works for you, great. However, some of us don't cotton to the "pop science" that seems to fill alcoholic literature.
I still think that "allergy" is at best imprecise, at worst misleading. I also don't think that the 1930's excuses anything -- they knew what allergies were. Again, if it works for you, great. However, some of us don't cotton to the "pop science" that seems to fill alcoholic literature.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by Raufoss
Apologies, Dee. "Blathering" is indeed a loaded word.
I still think that "allergy" is at best imprecise, at worst misleading. I also don't think that the 1930's excuses anything -- they knew what allergies were. Again, if it works for you, great. However, some of us don't cotton to the "pop science" that seems to fill alcoholic literature.
I still think that "allergy" is at best imprecise, at worst misleading. I also don't think that the 1930's excuses anything -- they knew what allergies were. Again, if it works for you, great. However, some of us don't cotton to the "pop science" that seems to fill alcoholic literature.
agree to disagree.
when I got on this forum, I thought other recovery methods were BS. deflating my ego led me to see that theres more than one way to get and stay sober. I may not agree with the approach, but if its workin for them my hats off to everyone no matter which way they make it happen.
heres another thought:
3 things theres a lot written on:
raising children, grieving, and alcoholism. not one book on any of them 3 subjects fits all.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by Raufoss
I still think that "allergy" is at best imprecise, at worst misleading. I also don't think that the 1930's excuses anything -- they knew what allergies were. Again, if it works for you, great. However, some of us don't cotton to the "pop science" that seems to fill alcoholic literature.
“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
— William Paley not Herbert Spencer
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 196
I cannot resist. My therapist told me that all people are allergic to alcohol, except alcoholics. She says the alcoholic will wake up without the hangover symptoms due to an extra enzyme which makes it easier for us to keep on drinking. It made sense to me.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: GA
Posts: 368
Originally Posted by NJNikki
She says the alcoholic will wake up without the hangover symptoms due to an extra enzyme which makes it easier for us to keep on drinking.
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 196
Originally Posted by dreamr
That was never my experience. If I didn't feel so awful the next day, not sure I would have been motivated enough to quit. I only drank in the morning a few times, but when I did it was to get rid of a hangover.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
I never got hangovers when I shifted into my final gear. Sometimes when I would have alcohol poisoning I would have severe detox and have ot keep drinking but hangovers were somethign I never had to deal with. This is after drinking 750ml in a night. If I would drink 1.5L well, that would typically induce withdrawl until I took another drink.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: California
Posts: 41
Originally Posted by Boleo
“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
— William Paley not Herbert Spencer
— William Paley not Herbert Spencer
If someone says "I'm allergic to peanuts", what goes through your head? I'm guessing exaggerated histamine response, anaphylaxis, etc. Not that they're powerless over peanuts... Some may ask why I care -- the reason I care is because I, and others like me, are less likely to take the key messages of recovery to heart when the literature is filled with misinformation.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by Raufoss
Actually, I have done my own investigations, and I continue as learning is a lifelong pursuit, not a one-time event. These investigations have led me to believe that a lot of well-meaning people are either taking an analogy literally or are just wrong.
If someone says "I'm allergic to peanuts", what goes through your head? I'm guessing exaggerated histamine response, anaphylaxis, etc. Not that they're powerless over peanuts... Some may ask why I care -- the reason I care is because I, and others like me, are less likely to take the key messages of recovery to heart when the literature is filled with misinformation.
If someone says "I'm allergic to peanuts", what goes through your head? I'm guessing exaggerated histamine response, anaphylaxis, etc. Not that they're powerless over peanuts... Some may ask why I care -- the reason I care is because I, and others like me, are less likely to take the key messages of recovery to heart when the literature is filled with misinformation.
So again, I go back to my original response - this thread is designed for you to puff up your ego not to get to the bottom of anything! We all acquiesced to your point - you win. Your still an alcoholic and it sounds like your without a program now, which I think is quite ominous. Not for any of us but for you. Seems to me you did the classic alcoholic move of pouring gas on yourself and lighting the match to show up everyone else while we watch you burn.
I assume the next point you should argue is powerlessness? Perhaps you can go step by step and find holes - again, your still an alcoholic and all you are doing is hurting yourself.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
Posts: 3,697
Originally Posted by Raufoss
Actually, I have done my own investigations, and I continue as learning is a lifelong pursuit, not a one-time event. These investigations have led me to believe that a lot of well-meaning people are either taking an analogy literally or are just wrong.
If someone says "I'm allergic to peanuts", what goes through your head? I'm guessing exaggerated histamine response, anaphylaxis, etc. Not that they're powerless over peanuts... Some may ask why I care -- the reason I care is because I, and others like me, are less likely to take the key messages of recovery to heart when the literature is filled with misinformation.
If someone says "I'm allergic to peanuts", what goes through your head? I'm guessing exaggerated histamine response, anaphylaxis, etc. Not that they're powerless over peanuts... Some may ask why I care -- the reason I care is because I, and others like me, are less likely to take the key messages of recovery to heart when the literature is filled with misinformation.
BE WELL
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
I remember when I had a whole lot of ideas on how to fix AA, alcoholics, and everything else in the world. My ego was a magnificent, many-splendored, wave of omniscience.
Last night I went to a Monday Night Football "party" at a friend's house and a guy was there, several months off DUI #7 and he was explaining how Alcoholism is genetic, "just like being gay." It was precious....
Last night I went to a Monday Night Football "party" at a friend's house and a guy was there, several months off DUI #7 and he was explaining how Alcoholism is genetic, "just like being gay." It was precious....
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