eco

I was wondering if anyone has tried AA and been happy with it when they do not believe in religion or the steps.

I keep trying to attend AA meetings and manage it into something I can tolerate, but then I always end up hating it and quit going.

I try tons of meetings and try to interact with others, find a sponsor, and build relationships, but I always end up trying to deflect others who just want to discourage me or try and convert me into their beliefs. Basically what happens is I tell people I meet that I will not pray or engage in any religious AA aspects. Also, I tell them that I do not think I drink because of defects or because I am a bad person, but just because I liked it, and that all I am looking for is a social network of nondrinkers who will support my own program of recovery.

But all end up with eventually is people who try to convince me that I am doomed and will fail, and that I am pompous ******* who thinks I know everything, and that if I really wanted to get sober, I'd STFU and do what they tell me to. Some people even get hostile, one guy told me not to come back to a meeting and one woman told me, none of us were just good people people who drank too much, get over yourself and admit that drinking was just a symptom of bad character.

And, I with all the prayer, religiosity, and discouragement I end up feeling that I was mentally and physically raped or something.

The preamble says all that is required is a desire to stop drinking, but it does not seem that way. The preamble even goes right on to tell you why you will fail if you do not do the steps their way. But, I think the STEPS are just one peoples opinion and just made up stuff. Why does everyone take it so literally. But, I think AA is great for fellowship and non being alone to drink.

Does anyone have advice on how they deal with it. I go to smart recovery and think its perfect. I wish I could just find a sponsor who would make AA just like SMART. The only bad thing about SMART is that its limited and not always there, and that is really the only reason I keep going to AA.

ScottFromWI

I am not in AA Eco, but the 12 steps are pretty much the entire foundation of the program. Trying to do the program without them would be pretty difficult I would think. Have you tried any of the other secular programs? Or how about direct counseling? That might work if you are looking for a sponsor/mentor type figure without AA.

lovejava

Not AA would be your best bet because AA IS the steps, although many atheists are about to accept a higher power.

Dee74

Hi Eco

I moved your thread to Alcoholism forum cos I think there's a chance this discussion may get a little robust and run up against the rules for the Newcomers forum.

I'm not in AA but I know many athiests who are.

We have an entire forum dedicated to Secular 12 step practice too - check it out...
Secular 12 Step Recovery - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

D

Nuudawn

AA, like religion, is not for everyone. I too did not find what I was looking for in AA. And I too, like you, do yearn for community and fellowship outside of "dogmatic" thinking. I am a spiritual person and find great wisdom and guidance in the story of Christ which I am now only exploring BUT...that is not the ONLY story. I believe anything that delivers a message of love, peace and goodwill toward man is a message I can subscribe to. I find there is a HUGE difference between spirituality and dogma.

I am currently looking for a somewhat spiritual community..where I can ask questions, ponder alternatives, engage in lively discussion that is not "fear" based.

I have consider going to AA again..simply to "audit" a meeting if I got to feeling "bonkers" and needed to simply get out and be around people. I know I used to enjoy some speakers...but I I shied away from those who wanted to dictate my journey.

It does a lot for so many..so I am not bashing the program...but I believe the "dogmatic" even strayed from the wisdom of the brilliant Bill W...who just says take what you need and leave the rest. The program does good work..IF it works for you. I hear what you're saying..boy do I hear it.

soberlicious

Are you permanently abstinent or do you feel like you need a group to rely on to keep you from drinking? If you are solely looking for fellowship with other non-drinkers, there is plenty of that to be found. It doesn't have to be "recovery" oriented to be valuable. What are your interests? Look for groups in your area that are involved in whatever you like to do.

eco

I hear you Nuudawn, I guess I just audit AA meetings, and I feel that finding "community and fellowship outside of "dogmatic" thinking" is impossible in AA sometimes.

"take what you need and leave the rest" I what I am really trying to do

bigsombrero

You are kind of all over the place - and I completely understand. I'm also an atheist. I got sober through SOME of AA's steps, in the early days. I also had treatment, read literature, came here to Sober Recovery and also found my own path. The way I see it, I make my own "recovery stew" - I take my favorite parts of each program and use just as much as I want.

There are a lot of hard core AA folks that believe you need to walk the line, perfectly, at all times. I do not subscribe to this theory. I go to AA when I want to, I don't have a sponsor, and I don't do fellowship or hang out at their ice cream socials. That might not sit well with the traditional AA folks, but so what? What are they going to do, kick me out? Send me to jail?

Your recovery is YOURS to own, not anyone else's. As long as you're sober and happy with yourself, that's all that matters. Do what you want. Stay sober!

awuh1

This is a video of what a founder of AA, Bill W. had to say about tradition 3. I believe some of the people in your AA meetings need to see this. It starts to talk about this important aspect of AA at the 4 minute mark.
Bill Wilson tradition 03 - YouTube

ru12

Hi Eco. If you like the social aspects of AA then go to the meetings. But be civil and don't insult them or criticize their program. It'd be kind of like a dinner guest criticizing the hostess's house. AA IS the steps, but you can still go and share the fellowship as long as you have a desire to stop drinking.

Nuudawn

Me too. I almost thought of going to a meeting tonight...but driving 30 minutes to the next town. I don't want a sponsor or any of that..but there is value in what other recovering alcoholics have to say (SR is case in point)..but there is only so much cyber support. I want to be around other recovering addicts or actually others on journey's of improvement. I actually toyed with the idea of starting some sort of discussion group (like a book club) kinda thing just to ...talk. But I doubt I'll get up the gumption.

I'd love to find a group to discuss recovery in the flesh...all alternatives and what has helped or not helped. Would be cool

legna

The third tradition guarantees you membership based on a desire to stop drinking.

I'm a recovering alcoholic/addict and lifelong atheist. I came into AA 35 years ago - back in the day and place when we would grab a newcomer and inform him who his sponsor was. And so, I'm happy to make myself your temporary sponsor and tell you to go to as many meetings as you like and if anyone gives you any grief - tell them your crusty old sponsor said that there are no musts in this program and that you are welcome for as long as you have a desire to quit drinking.

PM me if you like.

Nuudawn

You're awesome!

Grungehead

This was my thought as well. Doing that alone won't keep you sober but if you're just using it as part of your overall recovery plan I don't see a problem. I went to AA for several years without working the steps and no one gave me a hard time about it. All meetings are different though so if one doesn't fit try another one on. BTW I went back out drinking after those "several years" so I'm trying it again. This time I got a sponsor and I'm working the steps...we'll see if it makes a difference.

trikyriky

AA, like churches offer up a variety . I've been to AA meetings that are hard core and meetings where it's more open . Alcoholism is serious business , but some stories as they are told bring laughter and create a meeting thats not so regimental. I was told I had to fo 90 in 90 by the first person I asked to sponsor me or they weren't interested. You pick AA.meeting , take some leave some . You can pick and choose. One member share " Doing AA without the steps is kin to going to work and not getting paid ". One thing that makes me not want AA is when they or someone gets preachy

Coldfusion

Have you tried NA meetings?

It is a similar program, but you will find different people and maybe different attitudes.

Grungehead

I forgot to mention, there are AA for atheists meetings. Here is a link to there meeting locations. Obviously there are fewer of them, but if you are near a larger city you will have a better chance of finding one. There are 3 in my area.

AA Atheists | Atheist and Agnostic Alcoholics Anonymous Meetings

Nuudawn

Forgive me Riky...cuz you know I love ya but I suppose it is that sort of commentary that gives me a little discomfort. Not that there is anything wrong with what you're saying...but it's difficult to find fellowship when your beliefs vary.

If you don't do the program the way its laid down..you kinda of getting this feeling like people are looking at you askance, clucking their tongues with wry smiles thinking to themselves...oh ya, they'll be back drinking in no time..they are not doing it right!

I guess you just gotta grow a tough skin and hope you find someone who resonates with your perspectives...

Soberpotamus

Here's a link to alternative 12 Steps: Secular and Alternative Steps | AA Agnostica I know you say you don't believe in the steps, but have you read the Agnostic or Freethinkers 12 Steps? I identify as agnostic, and I use the Beyond Belief Agnostic steps version.

This book by Marya Hornbacher is recommended for atheists, agnostics and freethinkers. Waiting: A Nonbeliever's Higher Power: Marya Hornbacher: 9781592858255: Amazon.com: Books Here's part of the synopsis: "In Waiting, Hornbacher uses the story of her personal exploration to offer a fresh concept of faith for atheists, agnostics, and skeptics like her. She contends that, if you agree that you're not the biggest thing in the universe and that the universe does not, in fact, begin or end with you, this may be as far as you need to go for a 'spiritual experience.' Simply knowing that you aren't God can teach you how to wait"

I'm thinking about ordering that book soon.

The way you've described approaching AA is similar to the way I approach it (though I don't let people know I'm agnostic yet or that I use a different version of the steps, and I haven't shared my story... I just listen to others at this point). I feel like I'm kinda auditing or on the sidelines. Lol. And that's ok for now. But I am currently with a sponsor who is also agnostic, and she is taking me through the steps. We are at step 3.

I'm not so sure about the character "defects" either... at this point my thoughts are: I have a brain disorder/disease/addiction that developed over time (probably originating from a genetic predisposition + environmental factors), and with prolonged usage, caused me to behave the way I did. As opposed to being a defective and immoral human being, and therefore acting like an imbecile... you know?

FenwayFaithful

Too tired to read this right now and don't have much helpful reply But I am "bumping " this to save it to my replied posts so I can come back and read it later, I am having te same issues as you OP! I have been doing research on SMART recovery and it seems very interesting to me and more appealing but harder to find...but maybe look into it. Also IDK if you have this but here we have something called "Boston Meet up" you city might too and they have meet ups for sober people or just sober activities in general and it can be a good way to meet people who dont drink or who arent all about drinkng (would not consider this a recovery program obviously but can be a good way to make some sober connections!)