Should Sobriety Be Conditional
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Should Sobriety Be Conditional
Although I'm a big fan of self improvement, spitituality and all of those things I don't really see sobriety as being contingent on anything. States of mind, mood, outlook and all of those things are in a constant state of flux. If I were to tie my sobriety to being in a certain "State" then what happens when that state changes? Any opinions on this topic?
Self recovered Self discovered
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Location: Toronto Canada
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Making my sobriety conditional on anything is absolutely unacceptable to me. There is no state of being, no event, no action which can occur to make me drink again. There is no requirement of me now that I must meet in order to remain sober.
While this might seem a little severe, it also means that it is effortless. Being the lazy sort, it is made to measure for me. As things have transpired, I am just too busy for any other kind of sobriety.
While this might seem a little severe, it also means that it is effortless. Being the lazy sort, it is made to measure for me. As things have transpired, I am just too busy for any other kind of sobriety.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Interesting.
I enjoy a spiritual sobriety, which is by definition, loaded with conditions.
I'm okay with all that though, as the rewards justify the conditions, so no problem.
However, I also simply quit drinking back in 1981, without conditions whatsoever, and I enjoy the simple benefits of that too: not drinking not being drunk.
A spiritual sobriety is beyond simply quitting, and for me, that is importantly essential for my recovered life to be maintained against my illness of alcoholism.
As for just quitting drinking, that has nothing to do with my being an alcoholic or not. There is nothing to recover from in other words. Quitting is the cure in itself, even then there is not an actual "cure" either. Its just over and done with. End of story.
Embracing both understandings rocks my world no end. Its not for everybody, but it works for me now past 30 yrs.
I enjoy a spiritual sobriety, which is by definition, loaded with conditions.
I'm okay with all that though, as the rewards justify the conditions, so no problem.
However, I also simply quit drinking back in 1981, without conditions whatsoever, and I enjoy the simple benefits of that too: not drinking not being drunk.
A spiritual sobriety is beyond simply quitting, and for me, that is importantly essential for my recovered life to be maintained against my illness of alcoholism.
As for just quitting drinking, that has nothing to do with my being an alcoholic or not. There is nothing to recover from in other words. Quitting is the cure in itself, even then there is not an actual "cure" either. Its just over and done with. End of story.
Embracing both understandings rocks my world no end. Its not for everybody, but it works for me now past 30 yrs.
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The reason I brought this up is because I was thinking about mindfulness, meditation and how you can reach some really cool "States" with those things but they never last. They come, they go, some days you really feel the oneness, the presence and all of that and other days not so much.
It's kind of like being in the now is more of a knowing than it is a doing. How could you do something that you already are, you're always in the now so chasing that state is kind of silly. I'm getting way off topic but I do think if we tie being sober to being in a certain state then we're going to be forever chasing that state which will only lead to a lot of needless frustration.
It's kind of like being in the now is more of a knowing than it is a doing. How could you do something that you already are, you're always in the now so chasing that state is kind of silly. I'm getting way off topic but I do think if we tie being sober to being in a certain state then we're going to be forever chasing that state which will only lead to a lot of needless frustration.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne 
The reason I brought this up is because I was thinking about mindfulness, meditation and how you can reach some really cool "States" with those things but they never last. They come, they go, some days you really feel the oneness, the presence and all of that and other days not so much.
It's kind of like being in the now is more of a knowing than it is a doing. How could you do something that you already are, you're always in the now so chasing that state is kind of silly. I'm getting way off topic but I do think if we tie being sober to being in a certain state then we're going to be forever chasing that state which will only lead to a lot of needless frustration.
It's kind of like being in the now is more of a knowing than it is a doing. How could you do something that you already are, you're always in the now so chasing that state is kind of silly. I'm getting way off topic but I do think if we tie being sober to being in a certain state then we're going to be forever chasing that state which will only lead to a lot of needless frustration.
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Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
Any opinions on this topic?
You hit the nail on the head for me...constant flux...that is the essence of life. If my abstinence is attached to anything, then it is subject to change. My ideas about religion, spirituality and the like have changed drastically over my life and may well change again. My abstinence will not be blown about by the winds of my fickle mind. It remains constant, no matter what I decide I believe in or don't believe in.
So that allows me to explore, to move toward and away from ideas, without fear of drinking again.
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I'm very early in my recovery but I think (and have read) is that when one stops drinking one finds out what one started drinking for in the first place.
If that manifests itself as a void that now needs filling and what it happens to need filling (for that particular individual) with is a sense that there is something bigger out there than the individual that we are, then I would say that that awareness or development of that spirituality is conditional on sobriety.
But of course that void itself is uniquely different for everyone, and most certainly not always a spiritual void. In many cases there may not even be a void to actually fill.
If that manifests itself as a void that now needs filling and what it happens to need filling (for that particular individual) with is a sense that there is something bigger out there than the individual that we are, then I would say that that awareness or development of that spirituality is conditional on sobriety.
But of course that void itself is uniquely different for everyone, and most certainly not always a spiritual void. In many cases there may not even be a void to actually fill.
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Originally Posted by DIYman
But of course that void itself is uniquely different for everyone, and most certainly not always a spiritual void. In many cases there may not even be a void to actually fill.
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Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
I'm getting way off topic but I do think if we tie being sober to being in a certain state then we're going to be forever chasing that state which will only lead to a lot of needless frustration.
Perhaps its about the ratio of these states, rather than sustaining any particular one.
Adventures In SpaceTime
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The thing about awareness, is it's never turned off, its always on doing its thing. Different formations, quantities, and qualities of information are touched by awareness.
For me, awareness is life itself.
For me, awareness is life itself.
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
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Early in recovery I made my sobriety conditional. Dang if all the conditions didn't come up and I found reason to use and drink again.
The whole dramatic dynamic I set up for myself, with me struggling bravely against demon alcohol...well, that was only kept fresh when I threw a relapse in every now and then. It fueled the drama, like affairs and intrigue fuel soap operas.
When I started living life as a non drinker instead of a brave struggling alcoholic, things turned around for me. But it's a chicken/egg situation, meaning I don't know if my attitude change came first, causing me to alter my relationship to drinking, or my dram led to my attitude change...whatever. The thing is I stayed in the game, learned what was and wasn't working, how I wanted to live and got to a place where my sobriety is just a given, not a drama.
I was explaining to a friend the other day how in Spanish there are two words for "am". I am/Estoy...a temporary state of being, or I am/Soy...something inherent and unchanging.
Before, it was I am/Estoy sober...now, today, check back for updates.
now it's I am/Soy sober...unchanging.
The whole dramatic dynamic I set up for myself, with me struggling bravely against demon alcohol...well, that was only kept fresh when I threw a relapse in every now and then. It fueled the drama, like affairs and intrigue fuel soap operas.
When I started living life as a non drinker instead of a brave struggling alcoholic, things turned around for me. But it's a chicken/egg situation, meaning I don't know if my attitude change came first, causing me to alter my relationship to drinking, or my dram led to my attitude change...whatever. The thing is I stayed in the game, learned what was and wasn't working, how I wanted to live and got to a place where my sobriety is just a given, not a drama.
I was explaining to a friend the other day how in Spanish there are two words for "am". I am/Estoy...a temporary state of being, or I am/Soy...something inherent and unchanging.
Before, it was I am/Estoy sober...now, today, check back for updates.
now it's I am/Soy sober...unchanging.
Groovy Dancer
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Originally Posted by DIYman
when one stops drinking one finds out what one started drinking for in the first place.
As for the OP, this got deeper than where I normally grasp things (that's not meant to be taken negatively), but I do think it is dangerous to tie your sobriety to a particular state, for exactly the reasons some have laid out...those states change. It also gives a good excuse of "I'll quit when I get back there."
Its like tying sobriety to exercise. Then that injury happens and puts it all in jeopardy.
Now, I'm in no way saying this is true for everyone. Just my thoughts on what I relate to.
All is Change
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,284
Excactly.
I've lain in the gutter and I've lived in mansions. I've been near death, I've saved people. I've travelled the world, I've been a hermit. I've had raging relationships and comfortable family life
In a way 'I've been everywhere, man"
However, wherever I've been, I have always been there and the rest is just noise.
If I can't deal with this I in whatever situation life puts me in, I have a problem. Or rather a choice. To drink or not to drink,( that is the question ). For a pisshead, not drinking is the only sane answer. Learning to deal with the consequences of that is given.
KISS
Thank you, and god bless.
I've lain in the gutter and I've lived in mansions. I've been near death, I've saved people. I've travelled the world, I've been a hermit. I've had raging relationships and comfortable family life
In a way 'I've been everywhere, man"
However, wherever I've been, I have always been there and the rest is just noise.
If I can't deal with this I in whatever situation life puts me in, I have a problem. Or rather a choice. To drink or not to drink,( that is the question ). For a pisshead, not drinking is the only sane answer. Learning to deal with the consequences of that is given.
KISS
Thank you, and god bless.
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Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
Originally Posted by Grymt
Excactly.
I've lain in the gutter and I've lived in mansions. I've been near death, I've saved people. I've travelled the world, I've been a hermit. I've had raging relationships and comfortable family life
In a way 'I've been everywhere, man"
Thank you, and god bless.
I've lain in the gutter and I've lived in mansions. I've been near death, I've saved people. I've travelled the world, I've been a hermit. I've had raging relationships and comfortable family life
In a way 'I've been everywhere, man"
Thank you, and god bless.
I haven't heard that song in ages. : J-O-H-N-N-Y C-A-S-H - I've Been Everywhere - With Lyrics - YouTube
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Join Date: Dec 2012
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Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne
The reason I brought this up is because I was thinking about mindfulness, meditation and how you can reach some really cool "States" with those things but they never last. They come, they go, some days you really feel the oneness, the presence and all of that and other days not so much.
It's kind of like being in the now is more of a knowing than it is a doing. How could you do something that you already are, you're always in the now so chasing that state is kind of silly. I'm getting way off topic but I do think if we tie being sober to being in a certain state then we're going to be forever chasing that state which will only lead to a lot of needless frustration.
It's kind of like being in the now is more of a knowing than it is a doing. How could you do something that you already are, you're always in the now so chasing that state is kind of silly. I'm getting way off topic but I do think if we tie being sober to being in a certain state then we're going to be forever chasing that state which will only lead to a lot of needless frustration.
IMHO, it has helped me stay dry for the last five months and helped address my depression. I practice 20 minutes ever day and do spot "focused breathing" several time through the day when I have a quiet moment or just sitting around.
lillyknitting
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Loughton, Essex, England
Posts: 638
Why can't you remain sober in any state of mind or flux, or state of emotional being.
Drinking for me turns my life into chaos. It makes me sick, it plunges me into a whirlpool of lies, deceit, fights, arguments, it makes me anxious, paranoid, changes me from a calm, logical person into someone totally different whereby I want to destroy everything that I hold dear to me and is important to me.
Why would I want any of that back?
Drinking for me turns my life into chaos. It makes me sick, it plunges me into a whirlpool of lies, deceit, fights, arguments, it makes me anxious, paranoid, changes me from a calm, logical person into someone totally different whereby I want to destroy everything that I hold dear to me and is important to me.
Why would I want any of that back?
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Orillia, Ont., Canada
Posts: 165
I fully agree with you that moods and circumstances are in a constant state of flux, which might in itself actually be damaging, if one were always needing to try to alter one's mood through the use of substances. However, I also feel that my fundamental world view, that the universe is an exceedingly and endlessly fascinating place in which to exist, and that I am just a small piece of a far greater whole, has been basically my world view almost all my life, and therefore seems much more stable than moods, etc. I should point out that I am rather scientifically oriented, and call myself an agnostic, but would be likely termed a de facto atheist by most. I point this out only to say that my lack of religion has in no way hindered my having derived a great deal of benefit from AA, as I consider my world view to be rather spiritual, and therefore very accepting of my definition of a "higher power". I expect that were they available were where I live, other programs might suit me just as well, however, and I have never seen programs such as AVERT, etc., as being in anyway incompatible with AA--the commonality of purpose, getting and staying sober, to me, at least, outweighs any differences. Thanks for your interesting post, and all the best to you, rick
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BackToSquareOne, States of mind, mood, outlook and all of those things are in a constant state of flux. Thats what living is really all about. I deprived myself of a life because I was a drunk. 
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Originally Posted by Threshold
Early in recovery I made my sobriety conditional. Dang if all the conditions didn't come up and I found reason to use and drink again.
The whole dramatic dynamic I set up for myself, with me struggling bravely against demon alcohol...well, that was only kept fresh when I threw a relapse in every now and then. It fueled the drama, like affairs and intrigue fuel soap operas.
When I started living life as a non drinker instead of a brave struggling alcoholic, things turned around for me. But it's a chicken/egg situation, meaning I don't know if my attitude change came first, causing me to alter my relationship to drinking, or my dram led to my attitude change...whatever. The thing is I stayed in the game, learned what was and wasn't working, how I wanted to live and got to a place where my sobriety is just a given, not a drama.
I was explaining to a friend the other day how in Spanish there are two words for "am". I am/Estoy...a temporary state of being, or I am/Soy...something inherent and unchanging.
Before, it was I am/Estoy sober...now, today, check back for updates.
now it's I am/Soy sober...unchanging.
The whole dramatic dynamic I set up for myself, with me struggling bravely against demon alcohol...well, that was only kept fresh when I threw a relapse in every now and then. It fueled the drama, like affairs and intrigue fuel soap operas.
When I started living life as a non drinker instead of a brave struggling alcoholic, things turned around for me. But it's a chicken/egg situation, meaning I don't know if my attitude change came first, causing me to alter my relationship to drinking, or my dram led to my attitude change...whatever. The thing is I stayed in the game, learned what was and wasn't working, how I wanted to live and got to a place where my sobriety is just a given, not a drama.
I was explaining to a friend the other day how in Spanish there are two words for "am". I am/Estoy...a temporary state of being, or I am/Soy...something inherent and unchanging.
Before, it was I am/Estoy sober...now, today, check back for updates.
now it's I am/Soy sober...unchanging.
Threshold, your post made me wonder if at different points in my life I wasn't addicted to the drama, chaos and utter craziness of the lifestyle. Addicted in a way that I had sort of adapted to it and when I made a brief run at sobriety it just seemed dull, boring and uninteresting so I felt compelled to spice it up with yet another bender. Maybe that was part of the delusion I lived in for so many years. Sort of like the insanity of building it up just so you could tear it all down again.
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