AnAddict

Hi everyone-I hope you're all having a good day.

I've been involved in fellowships for a while now - I've read a lot of the literature and 'know' a fair chunk of what I've read.

I'm still at square one though.

I overthink a lot of things.

I'm powerless to stop. But I have a terribly hard time finding a conception of a Higher Power I can trust in. And, perhaps I may not even believe I am powerless, because I keep looking for a 'new way' of doing things. But, it's more of a journey to find my 'Higher Power' -- I just have such a hard time finding one that seems to work for me!

And today, I'm at Day 0 of sobriety again.. Feeling all of that anger, pain, and frustration-forgetting that I am powerless. Feeling like I'm in control when I have none.

It's like, I'm too afraid to admit that there even could be a power greater than myself in my life. I'm a scientist; I read a lot of atheist scientists about how deluded I would be to believe that way... Even though I'm in an absolute mess now and shouldn't be making that kind of judgement about anything or anyone!

Thanks for listening,
peace out.

muvinon

I was sick of my BS, too. I remember that oh so well. Finally, I was sick and tired of being sick and tired.

That's when it happened.

The power greater than myself? That's not an intellectual deal at all. It's just really getting honest with myself. Certainly, alcohol was "it" for a long time.

Thank you God (of my understanding) today, that's no longer true.

bbthumper

The key is a willingness to believe. As the Big Book says "As soon as a man can say that he does believe, or is willing to believe, we emphatically assure him that he is on his way"
Its easy to put too much emphasis on understanding your Higher Power. When the Big Book says "as we understand Him" it means our current understanding however inadequate it may be. That understanding grows and changes along with the rest of the step work.
I woould say that if you can "concede to your innermost self that you are an alcoholic" then there is nothing holding you back from continuing to work the steps.

deeker

Pray and ask God, God if you are real please reveal yourself to me. Just try it, he is real to me and I believe he will reveal himself to you if you just ask. God Bless!

Sometimes we have to humble ourselves and be open minded and just try something new.

I am not a scientist but I do think about the ways that God Is there.

For example doctors can do surgery but something greater than that does the healing. When I cut myself it heals. That is Love!

When someone dies we eventually heal, that is love, the pain goes away eventually.

Have you ever thought about a Redwood tree. That huge tree originated from a little seed. The whole design of it was in that little seed. To me that is evidence of an intelligent creator.

Have you ever heard that not one snowflake is alike? Have you ever looked at the intricasy of a snowflake. Now consider this, machines that make snow , they cannot duplicate snow flakes. They are not snow flakes.

If you really want to watch something interesting, google "God of wonder"

It is a video of amazing stuff in creation that may make you rethink your stance on an Intelligent creator and Loving God. Praying for you! I have found God and he is all consuming love.

AnAddict

Thank you both for your speedy replies.

I find that indulging addictive behaviour kind of pushes myself further away from the idea of a Higher Power being at work in my life--it clouds me up again.

I'm really trying too hard to 'understand' or to make my position in the world 'understood'.

I am trying to open myself to willingness.

Thanks for your honest experience, strength, and hope =]

freshstart57

No theistic belief is required for sobriety. In fact, many believe that one's religious and spiritual habits are irrelevant to sobriety. Cuts heal, seeds grow, the tides ebb and flow whether you believe in God or not.

The question is yours alone to answer, AnAddict. Do you believe a theistic belief is required for your sobriety? If so, best get on with it. Apparently no belief is needed at all, only an open mind. It is not clear what that means, but this is what I have been told.

If a theistic belief is not required for your sobriety, inform yourself of the power you have within yourself and make the decision to develop and realize your own capabilities. This can start by simply believing that you can achieve this, OK? It is only by doubting your ability will you fail.

sugarbear1

I worked the 12 steps without a conception of a higher power.

All I know is somethings in me changed after I got through step 7.

Things continued to change. I worked the 12 steps 3 more times by 18 months of sobriety. Things still continue to change for me.

Step 3 says I am put under the care of a power greater than me so I can get through steps 4-12. Wow. I'm cared for and I'll survive the rest of those steps. Now the action can occur.

Experience the steps and you may be able to define a higher power later in your sober journey!

deeker

Would you like a link to an audio Narcotics anonymous basic text? I go to NA as well AA and I am clean and sober today. It's a lot easier doing it with others. I love this forum as well but It can't replace eye contact and a warm loving hug.

Narcotics Anonymous Basic Text Audio 5th edition It's not the complete text but it is very informative. God Bless!

TimD

AnAddict,

When I was at the very bottom of my addiction, out of utter desperation I finally asked God for help. I didn't, and I still don't have a picture of God in my mind that I pray to every day. I knew that I would be dead soon and I didn't want to die. I just said, "God. Help me!" And I meant it. It was my last resort -- my only hope.

That was seven months ago and I didn't realize the miracle of what happened to me until I looked back after about 6 months of sobriety. I spent my share of time trying to over think not only my higher power, but the whole program I had found myself in. I too, am in a field where logic is usually my best friend. But in this most desperate case, nothing in science or within me was going to make things any better. I had tried and tried to quit and I couldn't think my way out. The only thing that ever worked was the first time I surrendered on the last day I drank. I surrender most things today and I'll be damned if it hasn't worked every time. Good luck on your journey!

awuh1

I have to echo bbthumpers point about having a willingness to believe. A good scientist is one with a desire to know the truth, and to follow the data wherever it might lead. In order to look for the truth you must conduct a search. I must ask if you have ever attempted to understand any of the world’s spiritual practices by reading, directly, from the central texts of that practice.

When I entered AA I was a stanch agnostic. It was pointed out that I had never conducted a search, so I had to admit (to myself) that I had never done any serious investigation. I had relied on religious ‘authorities’ and had done next to none of my own reading. My ideas, in effect, were shaped by the interpretation of spiritual practices and texts that others had provided to me rather than looking directly at them myself. I liked “God's Breath: Sacred Scriptures of the World”, “Perennial Philosophy” by Aldous Huxley and Synchronicity: An Acausal Connecting Principle by Carl Jung. (The latter was written in collaboration with Wolfgang Pauli who was nominated for the Nobel prize in physics by Albert Einstein in 1945)

The evidence has lead me to investigate the phenomenon of near death experiences (which is fascinating in itself).

To someone who has already made up their mind, all this may sound a bit silly. But in that case I would wish to enquire if they had made a truly open minded search.

Freshstarts claim that “No theistic belief is required for sobriety” may be true…. for him. If you need a bit more help, its available.

neferkamichael

AnAddict, I too am an addict. You are in no way powerless to stop. I'm 2 years 7 months sober, 1 year 6 months no crack, about 7 months no cigarettes. My addiction career spanned 42 years. Addiction to chemical substances is strictly a physical problem. What ever you put into your body, it will attempt to incorporate it. When you remove what ever you put into your body it will complain, withdrawals. I suffered from withdrawals, and if you are, just like me your body will adjust and you'll be fine. I go to AA regularly, and hang on SR even more. I'm sure I've said no to urges 50,000 times or more. Figure out how to divert your attention went the urge to use pops into your mind. Rootin for ya.

Dee74

Hi AnAddict

I'm not an AAer but I knew for sure everytime I took a drink, knowing what it did to me and knowing what would happen, that there was a power greater than me.

I'm no scientist but if there are negative powers greater than me, it stands to reason there must be positive powers too.

I found my higher power in the support and encouragement and wisdom I found here in the people of SR

D

AnAddict

Wow--thank you everyone, so much, for your replies.

I find that my brain is either in 'HP' mode, or it's not. One day I have no problems believing so. Other days, I do. And I find that quite hard to deal with.

freshstart - i will check out AVRT - interesting idea, definitely.
deeker- thanks for the link
sugarbear- sometimes, it feels like i need something concrete- yet, i know this is probably just another boundary.
TimD - I feel, often, that I've hit bottom 1000x. But I keep coming back.
awuh1 - You are correct. I have read much Eastern philosophy and religion, but my search could definitely be broader.
neferkamichael - I am very glad to hear about your lasting sobriety. You are right: I have to want it.
dee74 - I have such a hard time trusting the 'frailness' of humanity ... But I am so glad that has worked for you! If only I could embrace the imperfection.

thank you all for your overwhelming response.

jazzfish

Hi AnAddict, I struggled for many years to get sober. My first move towards progress came when I changed my interpretation of powerless. I took it to be powerless over my alcoholism (rather than alcohol). I may or may not have caused it, but now I had it and I was powerless to change that fact. I did have power over how I reacted to that fact.

For higher power, at first I tried a traditional approach and continually failed. I was very sincere and dedicated to a daily practice on this, but I never had any success. I eventually became an atheist and accepted that my sobriety was going to rely on me - my commitment, my decisions, and my actions. If anything "higher power" had simply become an acknowledgement that I didn't have the answers and I needed to look outside myself.

This is what worked for me. There are many roads to sobriety.

jazzfish

And now, thanks to Dee, I have to question myself as I can see that I am powerless over the effect alcohol has on me once I take a drink.

awuh1

You might like this book, "The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism".

MrTumble

take a look at secular connections group Secular Connections - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information it might help if you are having problems with being powerless or with finding your higher power...

OtterMedicine

AnAddict,

I suppose that one might have to choose between "being deluded" experiencing the joys of sober life, or "being unfooled by such ideas" and staying in active alcoholism.

Now, even though I am being a bit flippant, I understand the conflict that being a scientist creates as far as the HP goes. That said, I think that we would agree that science has not yet discovered all of the workings of the universe. Is it beyond reason to open oneself to possibility? Perhaps the HP is simply a part of nature that we cannot yet explain.

Alternatively, if it works better for you, perhaps the HP is the purest, wisest and most noble part of yourself. At times when I need to figure out what to do next, I consult with 'my Elder.' My elder is me in my 90's that has already been through whatever it is I'm trying to figure out.

These thoughts/ideas were helpful to me at different points. I hope that something in this post might be useful to you.

freshstart57

AnAddict, I hope I am not being disengenous, or even being a fibber, so let me assure you that I am not an atheist or an agnostic by any means. I have a strong faith and worship frequently as a member of a faith based community. My faith is simply not relevant to my addiction. There are indeed faith based recovery programs available, but there are others too.

To say that X is required for Y, one means that X is always required for y. As someone classically educated, I know you understand this. To disprove the statement only a single counter example is needed and there is no shortage of those as regards theism and addiction.

Statements that one must choose between self delusion accompanied by sobriety, and rationalism and self reliance accompanied by active alcoholism present nothing more than a false choice. As you know, a false choice is just the illegitimate use of the word 'or' and is an intentional or inadvertent attempt to eliminate all other alternatives. The implication here is once again that initial false premise.

I will repeat my assertion that was apparently easily overlooked. It is your call whether you take comfort in the existence of a superior being in a manner that can assist you with sobriety. It is up to you whether you believe that to be necessary, and you needn't heed any testimony to the absolute.

You can make a plan about continuing to use alcohol, much the way Jazzfish described. You can most certainly do this, AnAddict.

AnAddict

freshstart - I feel that I'm in a place where I can't honestly say 'yes, faith is needed' or 'no, it isn't' because even though i have had stretches of sobriety, I also relapse after a few weeks--what I mean is, I'm in no position to talk about what works or what doesn't.

What you're saying is very true. I certainly think in too rigid, black-and-white ways. My first addiction book was a 12-step book, and the author essentially said: 'I've worked with 1000s of addicts. This stuff (12-step program) works. Nothing else does.' I'm heavily influenced by his teachings, and it's like they play in the back of my mind whenever I think 'yes, I can do this' by any other means than 12-step programs [despite the fact that at the moment, my progress in sobriety with the steps is a little hard to see.

jazzfish- thanks for sharing what worked for you. I just find my search for answers somewhat fruitless.

awuh and mrtumble - thanks for the suggestions.