I'm tired... of my own BS
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Whether or not one embraces faith-based (or spiritually based) recovery, or whether or not it works and for whom, is really just a lot of white noise that appears to be keeping you in some sort of limbo. You will continue to go in circles if you must have a definitive answer to that. The addicted part of you likes this game. It keeps the door to using always open a bit.
If working a traditional program has not produced the desired results thus far, I would explore something like AVRT which is only designed for ending your addiction. Use the strategies outlined to quit...then if you want to figure out whether there is a God or not, knock yourself out.
To end your addiction you must stop putting alcohol in your body. There is no way around that. People do it a million different ways.
If working a traditional program has not produced the desired results thus far, I would explore something like AVRT which is only designed for ending your addiction. Use the strategies outlined to quit...then if you want to figure out whether there is a God or not, knock yourself out.
To end your addiction you must stop putting alcohol in your body. There is no way around that. People do it a million different ways.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by OtterMedicine 
AnAddict,
I suppose that one might have to choose between "being deluded" experiencing the joys of sober life, or "being unfooled by such ideas" and staying in active alcoholism.
Now, even though I am being a bit flippant, I understand the conflict that being a scientist creates as far as the HP goes. That said, I think that we would agree that science has not yet discovered all of the workings of the universe. Is it beyond reason to open oneself to possibility? Perhaps the HP is simply a part of nature that we cannot yet explain.
Alternatively, if it works better for you, perhaps the HP is the purest, wisest and most noble part of yourself. At times when I need to figure out what to do next, I consult with 'my Elder.' My elder is me in my 90's that has already been through whatever it is I'm trying to figure out.
These thoughts/ideas were helpful to me at different points. I hope that something in this post might be useful to you.
I suppose that one might have to choose between "being deluded" experiencing the joys of sober life, or "being unfooled by such ideas" and staying in active alcoholism.
Now, even though I am being a bit flippant, I understand the conflict that being a scientist creates as far as the HP goes. That said, I think that we would agree that science has not yet discovered all of the workings of the universe. Is it beyond reason to open oneself to possibility? Perhaps the HP is simply a part of nature that we cannot yet explain.
Alternatively, if it works better for you, perhaps the HP is the purest, wisest and most noble part of yourself. At times when I need to figure out what to do next, I consult with 'my Elder.' My elder is me in my 90's that has already been through whatever it is I'm trying to figure out.
These thoughts/ideas were helpful to me at different points. I hope that something in this post might be useful to you.
soberlicious - agreed- continuing to do the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is destroying me.
oakwood - well, let's hope we both find sobriety and happiness =] good luck in your travels
I guess I just have to choose...
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 577
I didn't want theism to be any part of getting sober. Fortunately, early on, someone told me I could use the people in the room as my higher power. A bunch of people who on their own drink & drug to excess were staying clean. Something "higher" was working. It was enough for me to stay in the rooms & stay clean for a good long time.
What I now call my "spirituality" has continued to evolve, so I can't say how long the meetings as HP worked....but it did in fact work for me.
good luck, keep coming back here!
What I now call my "spirituality" has continued to evolve, so I can't say how long the meetings as HP worked....but it did in fact work for me.
good luck, keep coming back here!
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
I was agnostic when I quit. Years later, for different reasons beyond addiction recovery, I became Christian in my faith. My sobriety though has had nothing to do with any outside deity. My AA HP of my own understanding is entirely an inside job. I make good use of the AA Way and AVRT skills, and Gestalt therapy, friends and fellowship, taking what I need, and leaving whatever. I quit to quit dying from my alcoholism, not to become a new slave to new taskmasters, has always been my approach. I'm more a poster child for choosing the eclectic journey out of the self-created prisons of my trashed addicted past life. I've never looked for the perfect way out. I just took the first real exit my then drunken self could manage while I burnt my former life down to ashes by quitting. Its surprising what clarity of vision one attains when one truly accepts an alcoholic death is in every hand of cards dealt to them while drinking. Quit or die drunk. Not much room left for mental gymnastics. Game over.
The essential action to take is to quit drinking without ceremony or drama. From there, honesty with ownership and responsibility to one's self is the best policy. Honesty practised first with yourself, and thereafter with others. Responsibility to staying quit, and ownership for the issues which are created from quitting alcohol abuse. I paid all my attention to the present moment as best I could when first quitting. To hell with my past for the time being. As to my future, I had no future worth living without sobriety in the present moments of my new life. A time and a season for everything in its own time comes to mind. All paths will lead you to success when you walk with the truth of your own convictions and responsibilities. There is no perfect choice which can be made and still enjoy your humanity, imo. Forget about it.
My initial efforts brought me to a supervised detox, 90 day residential rehab, AA, Gestalt therapy, AVRT, and living a spiritual life of my own understanding.
The single most important experience I can offer you to consider for yourself AnAddict when pondering your recovery, is to always be yourself, first and foremost, be true to yourself. Even when this means re-creating yourself so that your core authenticity is preserved and nourished. Change itself and the ability to enact change can never be overstated, is my life experience.
You can satisfy yourself, and quit abusing alcohol, and have a great happy and productive life all at the same time. Its all there just waiting for you to make it happen for yourself.
The essential action to take is to quit drinking without ceremony or drama. From there, honesty with ownership and responsibility to one's self is the best policy. Honesty practised first with yourself, and thereafter with others. Responsibility to staying quit, and ownership for the issues which are created from quitting alcohol abuse. I paid all my attention to the present moment as best I could when first quitting. To hell with my past for the time being. As to my future, I had no future worth living without sobriety in the present moments of my new life. A time and a season for everything in its own time comes to mind. All paths will lead you to success when you walk with the truth of your own convictions and responsibilities. There is no perfect choice which can be made and still enjoy your humanity, imo. Forget about it.
My initial efforts brought me to a supervised detox, 90 day residential rehab, AA, Gestalt therapy, AVRT, and living a spiritual life of my own understanding.
The single most important experience I can offer you to consider for yourself AnAddict when pondering your recovery, is to always be yourself, first and foremost, be true to yourself. Even when this means re-creating yourself so that your core authenticity is preserved and nourished. Change itself and the ability to enact change can never be overstated, is my life experience.
You can satisfy yourself, and quit abusing alcohol, and have a great happy and productive life all at the same time. Its all there just waiting for you to make it happen for yourself.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Vashon WA
Posts: 1,035
I found it helpful in the beginning to keep it very very simple DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL. Everything else was white noise. It gets better. Booze had already done enough. I wasn't going to let it drive me crazy. It almost did. My higher power has become sobriety.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Yep, some of what you have been told is simply not true. If someone tells you that you can't do something, it is up to you to believe that or not. It will be OK for you to succeed by believing in yourself. You can do this.
Most people quit without a program of any kind, and for a variety of reasons. I am one of them, and there is nothing special about me (just ask the Mrs.). You can choose to quit too.
Most people quit without a program of any kind, and for a variety of reasons. I am one of them, and there is nothing special about me (just ask the Mrs.). You can choose to quit too.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria Australia
Posts: 1,202
Hi there, AnAddict,
I can relate a lot to the ins and outs, the mental contortions, whatever you care to call it, that many of us experience around all this higher power stuff being directly connected to sobriety. Personally, I often find it (the whole argument - in myself and with others) to be a mind-f(*&k, if I may be so blunt. Several posters have called it 'white noise', and that's an even better description.
I try to return to the point RobbyR often makes: essentially, be your own self, when getting sober, staying sober (or not, too - as I'm currently 'stuck' in a period of return to drinking). It IS all very much a process, just like living itself; it's NOT a course, with an exam at the end :-), is how I like to think of the whole sobriety caper.
Good on you for posting - this community is crawling with many intelligent and witty people, who will have your back.
Blessings to ya
I can relate a lot to the ins and outs, the mental contortions, whatever you care to call it, that many of us experience around all this higher power stuff being directly connected to sobriety. Personally, I often find it (the whole argument - in myself and with others) to be a mind-f(*&k, if I may be so blunt. Several posters have called it 'white noise', and that's an even better description.
I try to return to the point RobbyR often makes: essentially, be your own self, when getting sober, staying sober (or not, too - as I'm currently 'stuck' in a period of return to drinking). It IS all very much a process, just like living itself; it's NOT a course, with an exam at the end :-), is how I like to think of the whole sobriety caper.
Good on you for posting - this community is crawling with many intelligent and witty people, who will have your back.
Blessings to ya
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by robgt350
i remember saying the samething. AA did not work for me. but i finally dug deep and did it. i am 11 weeks+6 days
I don't want to bash AA - after all, it helped me see that I truly have a problem. But I have become obsessed with the idea of AA, and need a change.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,958
When I first joined AA I felt challenged to define my worldview. As an atheist I really dint'n know what that meant to me. I needed to do some 'soul searching' per-say, as to have a solid foundation to grow from. I have now come to understand that being an atheist in life or in AA, is no problem at all and its actually healthy for me.
Like other atheist in AA I have worked the 12 steps without any belief in a New Age spiritual Higher Power. There are even http://www.aaagnostics.org/agnostic1...nosticAA Steps to follow if that would be helpful for you. I like them far better that AA's 12 steps and now work them for continued growth in life. I hope you sort out the HP deal so as to have ease of mind.
As for spirituality, I'm the naturalist spiritual type. I find inspiration, direction and example so positively powerful in natural world that it drives and challenges me to develop in my wellness journey.
for me.Like other atheist in AA I have worked the 12 steps without any belief in a New Age spiritual Higher Power. There are even http://www.aaagnostics.org/agnostic1...nosticAA Steps to follow if that would be helpful for you. I like them far better that AA's 12 steps and now work them for continued growth in life. I hope you sort out the HP deal so as to have ease of mind.
As for spirituality, I'm the naturalist spiritual type. I find inspiration, direction and example so positively powerful in natural world that it drives and challenges me to develop in my wellness journey.
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