Forgiving the alcoholic
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
Forgiving the alcoholic
I have a twist thats been in my head. Growing up with i'm certain now was an alcoholic abusive step father and a helpless mother who laid down like a door matt and allowed his atrocities to go on even going as far as condoning them or joining in she was just that warped.
We as alcoholics in say the AA program should apologize for these sorts of things.
But what about the person in my shoes. where no apology has been made etc.. But having been an alcoholic while i never stooped to those kinds of lows myself I do have a good understanding now as to why this could have happened. I'm almost finding myself saying its ok it was his disease not him it was her mental illness not her.
I suppose theres 2 things to this post. If your one that has commited some atrocities as a result of your alcohol abuse I'm one of those on the other side of it and would love nothing more then to see people like that reform and apologize etc..
My hangup is in my case I probably wont ever get an apology. If i did I'd probably still choose to no longer speak to this person I have no reason to spark up a relationship etc..
I realize my drinking was largly in part self medicating from all those problems so theres a deep seated anger I'd like to difuse and let go of. I look around the aa table and i wonder how many here are the abuser? the abusee? Both? how can we help one another to heal?
We as alcoholics in say the AA program should apologize for these sorts of things.
But what about the person in my shoes. where no apology has been made etc.. But having been an alcoholic while i never stooped to those kinds of lows myself I do have a good understanding now as to why this could have happened. I'm almost finding myself saying its ok it was his disease not him it was her mental illness not her.
I suppose theres 2 things to this post. If your one that has commited some atrocities as a result of your alcohol abuse I'm one of those on the other side of it and would love nothing more then to see people like that reform and apologize etc..
My hangup is in my case I probably wont ever get an apology. If i did I'd probably still choose to no longer speak to this person I have no reason to spark up a relationship etc..
I realize my drinking was largly in part self medicating from all those problems so theres a deep seated anger I'd like to difuse and let go of. I look around the aa table and i wonder how many here are the abuser? the abusee? Both? how can we help one another to heal?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida US
Posts: 296
Bad terrible thigs happen everyday and many have nothing to do with alcohol or addiction. Everyone suffers and dies. Some find happy moments in between. Enjoy and be grateful for those happy moments however brief. Enjoy your sobriety. I have never had much use for regret. It is a toxic emotion. What's done is done and can't be reversed. We have a responsibility to stop hurting others with our behavior once we realize our behavior is causing hurt to others. I still cringe at the thought of driving drunk with children in my car. I can't change the past but I sure can prevent it from happening again by not taking that first drink. Dwelling in the past and over analyzing people's behaviors is not productive or conducive to sobriety in my experience. Try to forgive your mom for her mental illness and your stepdad for his advanced disease of alcoholism, then move on. If not there, then accept that forgiveness will not happen now and be ok with that. Be ok with not being ok. This has always been very helpful to me. Giving up the expectation that i should feel pleasant feelinds all the time is enormously liberating. Sometimes life just plain sucks. Good for you not to expect an apology. Some of us never evolve to the point where we realize we have hurt others. Sad but true. Consider yourself lucky that you have.
Take good care of yourself
Natalie
Take good care of yourself
Natalie
Member of SMART Recovery
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
Excellent post, zjw. A reminder that we haven't lived our lives, even our alcoholic years, in a vacuum. We've done things to others, of course, but in many cases we too have been abused.
I don't know about anyone else but soon after I quit drinking (9 months or so) I began to realize, very painfully, that my drinking had an awful lot to do with the things that happened to me when I was young. Drinking numbed the experience at first, numbed the pain later on, and then took on a life of its own--became a part of the pain.
I could (and did) quit drinking, I could (and did) seek the support of others, but these things very simply did not help the pain...and for years drinking had been my only solace, my sole coping mechanism. I needed more than abstinence and I needed more than "a program": I needed professional help to process the past and learn healthy coping skills. I was lucky to find someone good fairly quickly (although it took a couple of tries) and while it took a lot of work, I must say that it paid off. My past is still my past, and the pain is still there but it doesn't destroy me anymore (even though no one apologized). I've been able to forgive and move on. This was not an overnight process, it was not instantaneous and at times it was very challenging. But it was well worth it.
I don't know about anyone else but soon after I quit drinking (9 months or so) I began to realize, very painfully, that my drinking had an awful lot to do with the things that happened to me when I was young. Drinking numbed the experience at first, numbed the pain later on, and then took on a life of its own--became a part of the pain.
I could (and did) quit drinking, I could (and did) seek the support of others, but these things very simply did not help the pain...and for years drinking had been my only solace, my sole coping mechanism. I needed more than abstinence and I needed more than "a program": I needed professional help to process the past and learn healthy coping skills. I was lucky to find someone good fairly quickly (although it took a couple of tries) and while it took a lot of work, I must say that it paid off. My past is still my past, and the pain is still there but it doesn't destroy me anymore (even though no one apologized). I've been able to forgive and move on. This was not an overnight process, it was not instantaneous and at times it was very challenging. But it was well worth it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
In my case there is a trend too my mothers parents where drunks and abusive. My step fathers father was a drunk and abusive. this trickled down I suppose through the generations. As of now I"m the one thats put the kabash on it and not allowed it to trickle down. Even when i was drunk I treated my kids with respect etc.. I'm glad I no longer drink however.
Part of it too is our alcohoic behaivor in this sample case can spread to others or at least can be a contributing factor. I'd rather not be a contributing factor to one of my children developing this disease later in life.
Part of it too is our alcohoic behaivor in this sample case can spread to others or at least can be a contributing factor. I'd rather not be a contributing factor to one of my children developing this disease later in life.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,393
In my case, I confronted my mother for the abuse in the past. Our version of events was wildly different. She still blames everything on my dad. So that was not helpful at all. I came to the conclusion that it's best to leave it in the past. If you can forgive and find some common ground in the here and now, that's great. Otherwise, just work on yourself. Everyone doesn't want to change. If you want to, work on that. Hugs to you. Sobriety rocks.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
I am currently just not speaking to my mother. I gave her a pass for so many years and started to wonder hey why does she get a pass she was just as bad.
That being said I'm not choosing that path out of anger per say. But because I feel in order for me to move forward I need to put it behind me. I need to not be hindered in the hear and now by the reminder of it from her etc.. I'd imagine she's upset by this but I'm hoping it will allow her to turn inwards and work through her issues and hopefully make her a better person and we can one day put this to bed.
I think i could more easily forgive her. But i feel no reason to associate with her until she changes her ways. I would not tolerate behavior like hers from some stranger off the street so why should I tolerate it from her?
Its acutally a freeing feeling for me knowing I no longer have to deal with her. It makes me feel better. Yes there is a lingering desire to make it all right but I realize that may not ever happen. I have to move on and be happy with my life.
That being said I'm not choosing that path out of anger per say. But because I feel in order for me to move forward I need to put it behind me. I need to not be hindered in the hear and now by the reminder of it from her etc.. I'd imagine she's upset by this but I'm hoping it will allow her to turn inwards and work through her issues and hopefully make her a better person and we can one day put this to bed.
I think i could more easily forgive her. But i feel no reason to associate with her until she changes her ways. I would not tolerate behavior like hers from some stranger off the street so why should I tolerate it from her?
Its acutally a freeing feeling for me knowing I no longer have to deal with her. It makes me feel better. Yes there is a lingering desire to make it all right but I realize that may not ever happen. I have to move on and be happy with my life.
Recoveringed
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Thump
Posts: 409
What do we do? 12 steps, specifically steps 4 through 9. That's the way out of the mess for all involved, alcoholic and family alike.
I was trapped in resentment, most especially with regard to my family, and I could see no way out. I had already tried getting rid of the toxic feelings I had been carrying around with one therapist after another, but for whatever reason I never found the power or the solutions for true freedom there. I found others to talk to as well, but many only helped to justify my sick thinking. I tried moving far away and cutting them out of my life, but even with thousands of miles in between us I was still carrying the weight of that old anger against them.
Thank goodness a solution that works came into my life through other alcoholics and Alanons. The steps are absolutely the greatest gift I had never anticipated. They are where I finally learned to experience forgiveness for all of those things that I had previously believed to be unforgivable, and that was without a single apology or any change from anyone else. What needed to change was entirely within me. That is a message of hope. The freedom on the other side which extends far, far beyond just not drinking.
"Just don't drink and go to meetings" doesn't address this stuff, nor does making "a big decision not to drink." I'm reminded of a great quote from step 9 in the chapter called "Into Action:"
"The alcoholic is like a tornado roaring his way through the lives of others. Hearts are broken. Sweet relationships are dead. Affections have been uprooted. Selfish and inconsiderate habits have kept he home in turmoil. We feel a man is unthinking when he says that sobriety is enough. He is like the farmer who came up out of his cyclone cellar to find his home ruined. To his wife, he remarked, 'Don’t see anything the matter here, Ma. Ain’t it grand the wind stopped blowin’?'"
I also highly suggest reading the chapters called "To Wives" and "The Family Afterward" in the Big Book. I continue to get so much from them and think you may too.
You can absolutely get free if you are willing to go to any lengths for your recovery. It's all right within reach!
Sending all my best wishes to you on your journey.
Big Book quotes from the first edition
I was trapped in resentment, most especially with regard to my family, and I could see no way out. I had already tried getting rid of the toxic feelings I had been carrying around with one therapist after another, but for whatever reason I never found the power or the solutions for true freedom there. I found others to talk to as well, but many only helped to justify my sick thinking. I tried moving far away and cutting them out of my life, but even with thousands of miles in between us I was still carrying the weight of that old anger against them.
Thank goodness a solution that works came into my life through other alcoholics and Alanons. The steps are absolutely the greatest gift I had never anticipated. They are where I finally learned to experience forgiveness for all of those things that I had previously believed to be unforgivable, and that was without a single apology or any change from anyone else. What needed to change was entirely within me. That is a message of hope. The freedom on the other side which extends far, far beyond just not drinking.
"Just don't drink and go to meetings" doesn't address this stuff, nor does making "a big decision not to drink." I'm reminded of a great quote from step 9 in the chapter called "Into Action:"
"The alcoholic is like a tornado roaring his way through the lives of others. Hearts are broken. Sweet relationships are dead. Affections have been uprooted. Selfish and inconsiderate habits have kept he home in turmoil. We feel a man is unthinking when he says that sobriety is enough. He is like the farmer who came up out of his cyclone cellar to find his home ruined. To his wife, he remarked, 'Don’t see anything the matter here, Ma. Ain’t it grand the wind stopped blowin’?'"
I also highly suggest reading the chapters called "To Wives" and "The Family Afterward" in the Big Book. I continue to get so much from them and think you may too.
You can absolutely get free if you are willing to go to any lengths for your recovery. It's all right within reach!
Sending all my best wishes to you on your journey.
Big Book quotes from the first edition
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4
We tend to have a twisted view on things. By that I mean we usually say, "why me". The thing that helps me the most in situations like this is the fact that we're ALL sick people. Aside from that, we have NO control over anyone else but ourselves. This is where the magic of the 5th step kicks in, cause once we get through it we start seeing things how they are, and not just how WE are affected.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
Chapter 5 seemed to get into those who have caused you harm and you may harbor resentment towards them. It went on to describe those people as spiritually sick. And how you woldnt just go punch a sick guy in the face instead you'd rather see if you can help them etc...
Its an interesting way to look at it and I agree these folks clearly are sick. Why when i look around the AA table i think how many of these folks abused there kids as a result of there disease. It helps me understand them now since I too have this disease.
My stepfather maybe i can get it in my head that he was just a sick sick man and move forward. I'll never communicate with him 0 desire and its been more then a decade since I last spoke to him.
My mother on the other hand is a unique case. If i where to choose to be nice ask if shes ok due to her "sick" nature offer help. It would just fuel the flames of her "poor me" self. It would validate the very behavior that caused her all the problems over the years the same ones that spread into my life.
I want her to get better I want her to be a normal functioning person not this poor me that wallows in her own pit day in and day out. But I'm out of energy and patience to throw at it. You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. I've lead this horse 9209120912 times and it kicked me many times along the way if that makes any sense.
There just doesnt seem much point in bothering any more at this point it just drags me down.
Maybe I just need time from her to sort this out. Maybe the time will help her figure it out.
Its an interesting way to look at it and I agree these folks clearly are sick. Why when i look around the AA table i think how many of these folks abused there kids as a result of there disease. It helps me understand them now since I too have this disease.
My stepfather maybe i can get it in my head that he was just a sick sick man and move forward. I'll never communicate with him 0 desire and its been more then a decade since I last spoke to him.
My mother on the other hand is a unique case. If i where to choose to be nice ask if shes ok due to her "sick" nature offer help. It would just fuel the flames of her "poor me" self. It would validate the very behavior that caused her all the problems over the years the same ones that spread into my life.
I want her to get better I want her to be a normal functioning person not this poor me that wallows in her own pit day in and day out. But I'm out of energy and patience to throw at it. You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. I've lead this horse 9209120912 times and it kicked me many times along the way if that makes any sense.
There just doesnt seem much point in bothering any more at this point it just drags me down.
Maybe I just need time from her to sort this out. Maybe the time will help her figure it out.
Sobriety date 12/19/2011
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: TX
Posts: 409
All I can do is focus on myself. It has worked wonders for me, and most all other feelings have started to slip away.
I am no longer focused on his apologies to me, I really don't care. I use to think I needed one, now I don't.
It took me 6 months to get here, but because I am working the program of AA, it has changed my old thinking habits.
Are you in a 12 step program? It is the only thing that is working for me.
I am no longer focused on his apologies to me, I really don't care. I use to think I needed one, now I don't.
It took me 6 months to get here, but because I am working the program of AA, it has changed my old thinking habits.
Are you in a 12 step program? It is the only thing that is working for me.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Sooner State
Posts: 1,725
Not saying this will work for you, or if you even want to do it..BUT...an old timer in pioneer group had the same issue. He couldnt get rid of the resentment toward his father and how he treated the family growing up. One day when he was around his father out of the blue he told him he forgives him. When asked "what for?" He said "you know what for" Not sure I have the lady-balls to do that but it took the weight of the world off of his shoulders.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 464
My Father physically abused me as a child, growing up this stuff dictated how I treated others ( including my dad). I stole from him, physically assaulted him and had scorn for my mom ( who turned away) I also did not trust a soul. I hurt people before they could hurt me. Coming to AA and "knowing" he did the best he could with what he had only got me so far. It was when I made amends for stealing from him, assaulting him without throwing in his face what he did I began to be freed- I stopped being angry at my mom and stopped keeping the world at arms length. In short:
I became free by cleaning up my past and am no longer a victim
I became free by cleaning up my past and am no longer a victim
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
My brother assualted the step father. I many years later thanked him for doing so. Had he not stood up to that monster on more then one occasion lord only knows how much worse it could have been. I realize its not easy. I was thankful he was there to stand up for us.
Upper bucks I'm a skook here looks like we might be neighbors haha.
Upper bucks I'm a skook here looks like we might be neighbors haha.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
"We as alcoholics in say the AA program should apologize for these sorts of things."
not really. we apologized enough when we were drinking. we make amends, which is change for the better; improve.
sittin here waiting for anyone to come and apologize to me for their past actions is a pity party that i will be the only one attending and quite selfish and self centered as the steps and my sponsor taught me.
not really. we apologized enough when we were drinking. we make amends, which is change for the better; improve.
sittin here waiting for anyone to come and apologize to me for their past actions is a pity party that i will be the only one attending and quite selfish and self centered as the steps and my sponsor taught me.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 222
I dont know, Im one of the belief that alcohol can often bring the truth to the surface. If alcohol makes one an ass, then they probably are an ******* at their core. Im of a different breed from them I guess so I cant understand, alcohol makes me very nice and friendly-part of the problem since Im kind of an aloof ass and a loner when sober- though there is nothing wrong with that.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,229
I've been reading the big book going to meetings etc.. Sober over a year. only in AA a month or so.
I'm a fairly religious person read the bible regularly etc..
Forgiving the autrocities of my parents just seems to be something I'm perpetually stuck on. Its the reason I figured maybe AA could help.
I realize the basics of it. I've prayed i'm not sure how many times for the strength to simply move on. Forgive em and put it behind me. But the anger and frustration still bubbles to the surface.
Maybe I'll never get past this. Today i've tried to think of this person as a sick person rather then my step father. I realize doing that could trigger me to have some compasion which could lead to forgiveness. I sure hope so anyhow.
I'm a fairly religious person read the bible regularly etc..
Forgiving the autrocities of my parents just seems to be something I'm perpetually stuck on. Its the reason I figured maybe AA could help.
I realize the basics of it. I've prayed i'm not sure how many times for the strength to simply move on. Forgive em and put it behind me. But the anger and frustration still bubbles to the surface.
Maybe I'll never get past this. Today i've tried to think of this person as a sick person rather then my step father. I realize doing that could trigger me to have some compasion which could lead to forgiveness. I sure hope so anyhow.
Member of SMART Recovery
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
Originally Posted by zjw 
I've been reading the big book going to meetings etc.. Sober over a year. only in AA a month or so.
I'm a fairly religious person read the bible regularly etc..
Forgiving the autrocities of my parents just seems to be something I'm perpetually stuck on. Its the reason I figured maybe AA could help.
I realize the basics of it. I've prayed i'm not sure how many times for the strength to simply move on. Forgive em and put it behind me. But the anger and frustration still bubbles to the surface.
Maybe I'll never get past this. Today i've tried to think of this person as a sick person rather then my step father. I realize doing that could trigger me to have some compasion which could lead to forgiveness. I sure hope so anyhow.
I'm a fairly religious person read the bible regularly etc..
Forgiving the autrocities of my parents just seems to be something I'm perpetually stuck on. Its the reason I figured maybe AA could help.
I realize the basics of it. I've prayed i'm not sure how many times for the strength to simply move on. Forgive em and put it behind me. But the anger and frustration still bubbles to the surface.
Maybe I'll never get past this. Today i've tried to think of this person as a sick person rather then my step father. I realize doing that could trigger me to have some compasion which could lead to forgiveness. I sure hope so anyhow.
People talk about "singleness of purpose" a lot, appropriately so, but all too often I'm afraid they think of the concept only in relation to people with addictions other than alcoholism. It also applies to mental illnesses and childhood trauma. Those things are not within the purview of AA. AA is not "child abuse anonymous".
I think it's really very important to keep this in mind. Traumatic childhoods can be extremely damaging and are best dealt with by a qualified professional.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
the program of AA can help ya with that. there are many qualified professionals in AA ( qualified by practical experience) and i will guarantee what has happened to you has happened to someone else who will help you learn how to get out from under all the crap.
after all, we share our experience, strength, and hope with each other so we may solve our common problems.
after all, we share our experience, strength, and hope with each other so we may solve our common problems.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 423
Just to reinforce what onlythetruth said above:
I am not sure if aa can provide all the tools to come to terms with this type of issue. We have an employee assistance program at work and I have seen first hand what professional counseling can do. After thinking about the kind of damage years of abuse can inflict, it may not be a bad idea to speak to a professional.
Dave
I am not sure if aa can provide all the tools to come to terms with this type of issue. We have an employee assistance program at work and I have seen first hand what professional counseling can do. After thinking about the kind of damage years of abuse can inflict, it may not be a bad idea to speak to a professional.
Dave
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
