LoremIpsum

I want to start by saying that I have great respect for anyone maintaining or struggling with alcoholism and sobriety. And I have great respect for the group of people that constitute AA. But I need to share my frustrations, and search for other options, in the hope that others will relate or have advice.

Firstly, and this is a big disclaimer, I've been sober a very short while – 24 days. Another big disclaimer is that I haven't found it hard yet. The first week was shaky as I broke habits, but other than that I was ready and happy to quit. People keep telling me (and I believe) that it will get hard, so maybe this whole post is invalidated by the fact that my resolve hasn't yet been tested.

Before I quit I was drinking about a bottle of wine every weeknight and three or four over a weekend. For years, really. I know there are people who drank a lot more than that, but I was drunk almost every night and I hated it and I couldn't stop. I was basically a functioning alcoholic though – I've got a good job and freelance on the side. But at the same time but I was often late to work and my productivity would suffer as I did with my hangover. Maybe I should say I was semi-functioning alcoholic.

I've also had drug addictions in the past.

I called a friend in AA, told him I wanted to quit, and he took me to a meeting. I guess I felt a bit ambushed – from the first meeting the message seemed to be you've got to do 30/30 or 90/90 and work the steps or you'll die. I was committed to sobriety, but not yet committed to AA – but it felt like AA committed to me first.

But there were things about AA that immediately appealed. I love the idea that I can simply surrender in the face of my addiction – that I don't have to consider it a moral failing anymore. The people there are mostly lovely and when people share they are raw and honest. I relate to what others say.

But I don't want to go to a meeting every night. I work long hours, I moved house on the weekend and I'm an introvert who needs space to myself each night. So, after the first fortnight, I haven't been going nightly. I feel so much better for it. If I could go to meetings twice a week, I'd be happy, but my friend who took me doesn't approve. He thinks that I feel good because the program is working and that's why I don't want to go.

I find it hard that every statement that doesn't toe the party line seems to get labelled as denial. It's not that I disagree – I almost certainly in denial about a huge array of things I currently consider certainties, and I want to address them. But the labelling seems to be axiomatic rather than based on what I actually say. The groups I've been to seem very judgmental sometimes – it's AA or the highway.

I find I'm listening to a lot of drinking stories. In some informal discussions after meetings, it seems to get a bit competitive. I don't mind telling my own drinking story – I've been seeing an amazing shrink for the last three years so I have a lot of practice – and I quite enjoy hearing others. But I'm getting a bit bored with it. I wanted to quit drinking for a long time so I could be more present and mindful with myself and those around me, so I could reconnect with my ambition and achieve. I've talked about drinking a lot in the last few years – about how much I want to stop and how it was sucking away at my life/time/relationships/career. I'm sick of it.

Then there's the higher power. I was brought up an atheist, and I don't believe in a higher consciousness, but I'm happy to think of the HP as the group itself. It is a higher power than me. But I find that there's a school of thought that seems to think the newcomer will be satisfied with that until they do the steps and find their real HP. Maybe that will happen; I'm not discounting it. But I have to say I find it patronising.

I'm being a very pathetic and half-hearted AA member. I haven't started the steps yet and I don't have a sponsor. But I also feel like I never got a chance to step back and consider how I am going to live in sobriety and what my options for support are, and make a considered decision. I would like to do that while going to AA meetings regularly, if not nightly. I would also like to go to a SMART Recovery meeting. I'd also like to find a women's non-12-step support group.

I know I'm free to do these things, but it's causing me angst that my AA friends are so disappointed in this decision AND that they think I'm in denial and will fail.

Jeez, I dunno. After writing this I wonder if I just don't want to go to meetings everyday so I'm inventing problems with AA to justify it.

All opinions and personal stories welcome. I'd love to hear from anyone who's sober without AA, or AA members who have struggled with similar issues. Or just anyone.

stugotz

Could be. I drank every day so I went to meetings every day. Doesnt have to be like that forever. Im in my fifth year and I rarely make it to meetings anymore. Meetings took the place of drinkin, then Living Life took the place of meetings. Good luck.

Boater

Lorem, there is an excellent book "drunkard" it addresses everything you are concerned about. it is written by neil stienberg who is an excellent writer he keeps it light and it a very easy and fun read. full discloser i read his column in the sun times. neil is jewish and he ran across the same problems with religion as you do. good luck i hope you read it i think you will really like it. it's funny and very quick read. who knew a book on drinking could be fun? good luck, bobby

zjw

I didnt go to aa for the first year. Then people here pushed me to go to AA. I had thought about it before. I agree with the creepyness of it if thats how to describe it. Like guys at hte meeting keep telling me to go to this meeting in that town or this other meeting another night (essentially GO EVERY NIGHT) and I'm like No absolutly not zeroing in on my bad habit thats in the past 7 nights a week is not my cup of tea sorry. I dont have time. And yes many AA folks might tell me Oh no bad attitude you might relapse.

For me Me and My maker have to have control over my Sobriety and recovery. not AA not some people there etc.. I'll seek advice and help but I dont like it pushed on me I can think for myself etc.. I dont need the group pulling me around by the bullring in my nose.

That being said I've found AA very beneficial but I'm quite content personally with going only 1 night a week. I dont have a sponsor maybe I'll get one maybe I wont. I dunno these folks all that well. I'm still reading through the big book etc.. taking my time. People tell me work the steps and I say geeze there just basic common sense things i've done for the past year to recover without AA.

I'm finding I'm however a unique case in that a lot of people require an AA type setting. I'd imagine more people quit without AA but you dont hear about it becuase well there not into the whole group thing or blasting there problem to others.

I'm not trying to bash AA again its a great program. But I can understand ones desire to work the program how it suits them best. I'll probably get flamed for that and I suppose it might lead many to relapse I'm not sure. I got a meeting this week I skipped last week. But I plan on going this week.

Gottalife

As a hardcore AA member of many years I agree with much of your post, if not all. I guess the first thing is to decide for yourself whether you are sufficiently alcoholic to have placed yourself beyond human aid. If not, then almost any method of recovery will work for you. But if you are like me, my problems begin when I stop drinking.

Alcohol was my solution to life and when it stopped working, life got very difficult. I had to find a new manner of living in order to be happily sober. I was suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer. I could not stay sober on my own power (step 1 - the problem, lack of power), and I came to believe that a power greater than myself would restore me to sanity (solution - give me the power) and steps 3-12 would connect me with the power.

Here's the secret. Quality of sobriety is not related to how many meetings you attend. It is directly related to how quickly and thoroughly you adopt the principles expressed in AAs 12 steps as a way of life. To do that you need a good sponsor to take you through the steps properly and quickly, and you will find one of those most likely at a Big Book study or steps meeting. 2 or 3 meetings a week and intensive step work will be much ore effective than bulk meetings, especially of the type you describe.

God bless,
MikeH.

LoremIpsum

It might seem like I'm automatically thanking everyone for their post, but I'm honestly getting so much out of this. Hearing people who go to AA relate to what I said means a lot. Thanks so much for bothering to reply.

Mike, that last paragraph of yours made me sigh out loud with relief.

And Boater, I'm ordering that book. I'm just reading about it now – I love how grumpy that guy is.

zjw

Just to elaborate a bit. Take weight watchers. Some people love it it works great. Others say absolutly not am I getting on a scale in front of other people week after week. But Some people NEED that group accountablity that they get there. Like wise with AA some people need someone to be accountable too in that regard to help them stay in check.

We have to crawl before we can walk. Some of these programs are to help you do just that. Sadly some folks quickly fall apart without the help of the person or group wtvr it was. They use it as a crutch rather then learning to walk / stand on there own 2 feet.

I believe a program of sorts can be helpful. But ultimately you have to do it alone and be sure you can do it alone becuase you may not always have a group or crutch to lean on.

That being said some people jump into the doing alone thing too fast and quickly fall down into in this case relapse all over again. So its something to really think over what type of person you are etc..

I like individual thought rather then group accountability personally. But I am finding going to the meetings listening to other people and helping when i can a nice addition to my recovery process for now.

zjw

I think Mike helped with his post almost sounds like he's saying Keep It Simple Stupid. (K.I.S.S.).

Being a recoverying drunk I can tell you I have a way of overcomplicating a situation and fast. When in doubt find the simplest solution and just dont drink. If you have questions or confusion be patient in time the answers will come. Worry about being sober for now. Easier said then done tho.

There where days where life was so tough I'd think all i'm concerned about is making it from the begining of the day to the end without drinking. I dont care what else goes wrong or goes un done. All i care about is being sober today.

Mark75

I had mixed feelings about AA meetings at first, I still do sometimes. However, I figure I can quit going anytime I want to. I go to 2-3 a week. Most of the time I look forward to going. Most of the time. Some days I go because there is that sense of responsibility I have, that was emphasized to me... Responsible to me at first, now to others... I have been going 4 years in September.

Reading the Big Book, doing the steps, all that, that's AA. Meetings are the fellowship, they support AA. Doing those things are what gets you sober. Staying sober? Well, many find that being part of the fellowship is an important part of that. For me, it is important, but 2-3 meetings is plenty... some don't go to the meetings at all, some go nearly everyday for decades.

You asked for opinions, those don't have much value, really. But aside from thinking you should read the Big Book and do the steps, if you want to experience AA recovery, I think you should realize that it's a one day at a time thing... what happens tomorrow isn't what is happening today.

LoremIpsum

I really relate to your thinking zjw. I don't like being led by the nose either, and I'm not big on group activities. Totally get what you're saying.

bbthumper

My experience has been that there is a lot said and preached in AA meetings that is not AA. Nowhere in the Big Book does it say we need to go to 30 in 30or 90 in 90. Some people have the time and desire to do that. It is not necessary. What is necessary, according to what I believe and what AA believes, is getting to the point where we can help other alcoholics. That is why I think gaining some knowledge of the Big Book is so important. We need to know what is AA and what is not.

What I do know is that I have never seen someone regret working the steps. If we do the work laid out in the Big Book there is more available to us than we could ever imagine. Many of us were of the Atheist or Agnostic type and still have had deep and profound spiritual experiences through the working of the steps. A willingness to change your old ideas is all that is necessary. If you believe that we believe that is all that is necessary to make a good beginning.

About the meetings, have you tried other formats? Speaker meetings, literature based meetings? I get frustrated too with the open discussion meetings sometimes. The war stories and outside issues drives me up the wall. But when you get with a group who is on fire with this thing called recovery and sticks to what's in the book, you find support like you never imagined.

AA does not have a monopoly on recovery, but the success rate among people who actually work the 12 steps is better than anything else out there.
We just need to get connected to the right folks.

Good Luck. I hope you find the answer you need.

~BBThumper

onlythetruth

I agree with Mark75 that opinions about AA don't matter a whole lot. People who go to AA, and who find that particular path works for them, will tell you they love it. Others have not found AA to be a good fit for them; they will tell you otherwise.

The key is to understand that there are MANY different roads to recovery. Yours may or may not be a 12 step one. Or you may find that certain 12 step ideas work for you, and others don't. It's all okay.

Take a look at some of the different options for recovery groups--here:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...formation.html

And of course, many people find that SR alone gives them all they need.

It may take some time and effort for you to find your path, but it is worth the effort.

aeo1313

So many people in meetings that I go to tell the newcomer it's ok for the group to be your higher power. Just make it something other than yourself. Also, 30/30 and 90/90 are rehab talk. No where in the big book does it say this. Go to however many meetings you want. It is your recovery. If your friend is disapproving talk to others. Best wishes to you!

soberbrooke

For me, going to 90 meetings in 90 days was hard at first, but I managed. I ALWAYS felt better after a meeting. I did more, I did 2 and 3 meetings sometimes in one day. I learned that it got me out my MIND, out of my EGO.
When we work with others in a group for the same goal, that is what makes a group work. I need my groups, they are saving my life. I know that if I continue down the path of drinking, it will kill me one of these days. Sooner than later.......

miamifella

There is often a dogmatism in 12-step meetings that is counterproductive for many people. Saying that anything that is not strictly within the party lines is "denial" is an example of that.

It may be that you just have to withstand the disapproval of people in the group and your friend. (You are not there to gain their approval--you are there to get better.)

Or you may want to look for other AA meetings to attend. Also, you could try NA. A different meeting or 12-step program might have a different attitude. There is great variation within meetings, so you can shop around for the one that works best for you.

Also, I would recommend supplementing your 12-step recovery with individual therapy. Some one-on-one work can help tremendously in early recovery.

Boater

if you have facebook get on neils friends list. he talks about taking his 12 and 14 year old boys to the opera and they love it! and much much more. he also posts all his articles on facebook. i saw him at restaurant (we both live in the northern burbs of chicago) i had his book with and he very happily signed it for me. why i had his book with me at the time still puzzles me.

freshstart57

The whole Emperor's New Clothes aspect, if you can't see them, you are unfit for office, is a little dishonest in my view. There is a lot of good to be found in AA, and a closer relationship with The God of Your Understanding is certainly part of that. Fellowship and mutual support is another great aspect of AA.

Some people will tell you that these things are sufficient for sobriety, but the idea that relapse is part of sobriety, and the never ending nature of recovery show this not to be true. Neither is AA necessary for sobriety, because lots of folks stop drinking without it.

What is necessary, and sufficient, for sobriety is the ironclad choice to never drink again, no matter what. Inform yourself of all of the options available to you to assist you with your decision and make a choice that works for you.

desertsong

While I got sober through AA, I also know that it doesn't work for everyone. I am fortunate to have a wonderful sponsor and a very supportive home group "family" who embraced me from day 1, even though I kept going in and out for 3 years. I went to meetings every day when I got sober on March 6 of this year, and now I go probably 3-4 times a week. That part still works for me.

The meetings are important for the fellowship. You aren't going to like everything you hear and you aren't going to like everyone there. But to me, being among a group of people who truly understand me has been a huge part of my recovery. There is nothing I can say or do that none of them haven't also done themselves. We relate to each other. When I'm in a meeting, I truly feel at home.

That said, the meetings aren't the program. The 12 steps are. That is where the miracle happens. The meetings are kind of a passive thing ... you go, you listen, you share, you go home. But if that's all you do, you're probably not going to stay sober. I learned this over a period of 3 years of going to meetings but not doing the work, and I relapsed several times during that period. This time around, I'm honestly and faithfully working the steps and I cannot tell you the difference it has made. I am changing, truly changing. I've been working step 4 for the last month or so and it has been really eye-opening. I'm starting to see some of the "Promises" happening in my life and it is nothing short of miraculous.

I guess what I'm saying is that AA works ... if you work it. There are always going to be the hard-liners who will tell you "you HAVE to do this or you HAVE to do that." There will always be people who try to tell you to do stuff that isn't in the Big Book. I just nod politely and then pretty much ignore them. lol Take what you can use and leave the rest. Remember "principles before personalities." Look for the similarities in people, not the differences. And as far as the God/Higher Power thing goes, if you honestly work the steps, you will discover what your higher power really is. For now, it might be the group. Or you might find it in nature, music, or some other form of spirituality. We have both atheists and agnostics in our group, and they're working the program and staying sober. It can happen for you too.

You don't have to go to AA - there are plenty of other options out there to help you get sober. Just giving you some things to consider before you completely give up on it.

FlyerFan

Listen, we don't care HOW you stay sober, just STAY sober one way or another. Try out the various methods and you choose which ever one works best for you! I didn't like AA in the beginning and I felt very overwhelmed as well. But I never went every single night. I go 3 nights a week and on the days in between I call people and chat to them.

Like I said, find what works for yoU!

tacks

Strongly agree.

[i was going to respond by describing how a Non-Alchoholic friend of mine managed to control his drinking. But stopped as my friend's strategy would NOT work for me and most likely NOT work for anyone on this board]