Where is the recovery??
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,326
many newcomers don't know there are different types of meetings. I didn't until I went to rehab. the first meetings I went to made no sense to me at all. I even got a Big Book from the library to try and make sense of it. this was in 1978.
so, please AA members, reach out to the new faces. Say hello and offer literature. Offer your number and maybe an invite for coffee and pie after the meeting. Offer a meeting schedule booklet. Offer to answer questions! Please remember how you felt the first few times. now days, thanks to AA and a better understanding of alcoholism and less stigma, newcomers may be younger. they may be coming to AA because they are scared or worried, not necessarily as a last resort.
I appreciate and am so grateful I got the sponsor I had and that AA was there for me. I just wish AA folks had told me more than "get to a meeting" and instead told me what I needed to know about AA's solution.
Love from Lenina
so, please AA members, reach out to the new faces. Say hello and offer literature. Offer your number and maybe an invite for coffee and pie after the meeting. Offer a meeting schedule booklet. Offer to answer questions! Please remember how you felt the first few times. now days, thanks to AA and a better understanding of alcoholism and less stigma, newcomers may be younger. they may be coming to AA because they are scared or worried, not necessarily as a last resort.
I appreciate and am so grateful I got the sponsor I had and that AA was there for me. I just wish AA folks had told me more than "get to a meeting" and instead told me what I needed to know about AA's solution.
Love from Lenina
Run to live... live to run
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Western Maryland
Posts: 1,091
Originally Posted by RevivingOphelia 
That may be so for you and your group; however, if you read the OP, she is concerned that God is not mentioned enough at meetings as well how the "power of GOD" and the notion of "spiritual maladies" are given short shrift.
I find this attitude rather condescending, borderline offensive and unwelcoming to many who are searching for an inclusive recovery program.
I find this attitude rather condescending, borderline offensive and unwelcoming to many who are searching for an inclusive recovery program.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
Lenina--You are so right.
When I was first looking for recovery, I was pretty ignorant and the only meetings on the schedule that were at times when I was not working were all "closed." So it was months before I went (on a day off from work).
Though I wish people in 12-step programs did MORE reaching out to the newcomers, the fact is that looking around most meetings it is the same dozen people that everyone knows with no new folks. But we still are supposed to only share the good and tell about our successes in a way that sells the program. But we are selling it to ourselves, not any newcomer. And even if there is a newcomer present, would he/she buy into all the happytalk?
I think an honest clear-eyed look at our failures, fears, and shortcomings are important. When I first came in, I was not able to relate to talk of recovery and the steps--but I think a bit of talk about current problems folks have actually carries the message of 12-step literature, which speaks of an ongoing search for greater wholeness. The steps are suggestions for how to go on that search, but I think that our desire to always provide solutions in meetings cuts short the need to articulate the problem the solution is for. Recovery as described in the BB is not just about solving the problem of our addiction but rather finding a better way to live. I wished I had heard more about this at meetings. How I deal with my noisy neighbors, clingy mother, and reckless drivers is part of my recovery. It is not enough to stop drinking and drugging--rather it is about relating to the world in a sober manner.
On another note, I think this thread shows why we are always cautioned not to say "god" in meetings, but rather use the term "higher power."
When I was first looking for recovery, I was pretty ignorant and the only meetings on the schedule that were at times when I was not working were all "closed." So it was months before I went (on a day off from work).
Though I wish people in 12-step programs did MORE reaching out to the newcomers, the fact is that looking around most meetings it is the same dozen people that everyone knows with no new folks. But we still are supposed to only share the good and tell about our successes in a way that sells the program. But we are selling it to ourselves, not any newcomer. And even if there is a newcomer present, would he/she buy into all the happytalk?
I think an honest clear-eyed look at our failures, fears, and shortcomings are important. When I first came in, I was not able to relate to talk of recovery and the steps--but I think a bit of talk about current problems folks have actually carries the message of 12-step literature, which speaks of an ongoing search for greater wholeness. The steps are suggestions for how to go on that search, but I think that our desire to always provide solutions in meetings cuts short the need to articulate the problem the solution is for. Recovery as described in the BB is not just about solving the problem of our addiction but rather finding a better way to live. I wished I had heard more about this at meetings. How I deal with my noisy neighbors, clingy mother, and reckless drivers is part of my recovery. It is not enough to stop drinking and drugging--rather it is about relating to the world in a sober manner.
On another note, I think this thread shows why we are always cautioned not to say "god" in meetings, but rather use the term "higher power."
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
AA states that all that is necessary for membership is a desire to stop drinking. A belief in a Higher Power, The God of Your Understanding, is also required. This is necessary for the 12 Step process.
Do Atheists Have Any Place in AA?
Do Atheists Have Any Place in AA?
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by bbthumper
I am becoming increasingly disturbed at many meetings.
My heart breaks for the newcomer who comes into the rooms and does not hear the message of AA. Instead the floor is opened to anyone's "sobriety threatening issues." The entire hour is dedicated to one person's external problems and no one mentions God, recovery, the steps or even alcoholism. What good is that to the new guy coming in just wanting to know what is wrong with him and having no understanding of acloholism or the spiritual malady.
We should be giving the newcomer hope!
We need to lay aside our "sobriety threatening issues" for an hour and talk about how to get well and the power of GOD.
I bring the solution to the meeting.
I bring my problems to my sponsor or to my fellows before or after the meeting. Me talking about my terrible day does nothing to give a newcomer hope. Does anyone else feel sympathy for these newcomers?
My heart breaks for the newcomer who comes into the rooms and does not hear the message of AA. Instead the floor is opened to anyone's "sobriety threatening issues." The entire hour is dedicated to one person's external problems and no one mentions God, recovery, the steps or even alcoholism. What good is that to the new guy coming in just wanting to know what is wrong with him and having no understanding of acloholism or the spiritual malady.
We should be giving the newcomer hope!
We need to lay aside our "sobriety threatening issues" for an hour and talk about how to get well and the power of GOD.
I bring the solution to the meeting.
I bring my problems to my sponsor or to my fellows before or after the meeting. Me talking about my terrible day does nothing to give a newcomer hope. Does anyone else feel sympathy for these newcomers?
Thirty years ago I first began my successful journey with AA, and its the same Twelve Steps offered today as when I began, and as originally published in the AA Big Book 1st Ed, 1939. Today we have four editions, and yet the Steps remain unchanged. Awesome.
I am now a recovered alcoholic drug addict. I have learned that AA looked different to me after I completed my recovery. Here again, the Steps remained unchanged, but I of course, changed completely. My psyche was revolutionised. Reborn from the ashes of an alcoholic-minded sufferer into the sober-minded spiritual person I am today, and have been for decades now. Just like you, I too was originally a newcomer, yeah?
I wonder if you realize just how weird AA meetings have been since the very first meeting back in the day, right up to present AA? Your would do yourself a favor if you could be more open-minded to the idea that your present frustrating experiences are simply more of the same which as always been inherent within the AA population since its inception.
I'm not allowed, as I understand, to actually quote AA 12x12, but allow my following paraphrase to suffice, gathered from the 3rd and 4th traditions.
AA Tradition 3 and 4, published in 1946, offer recognition of your concerns, and state:
"Nor ought AA membership ever depend upon ... conformity."
Well, that speaks sufficiently to your present concerns, Thumper, imo. Already built into every AA meeting since 1946, is the abundant right for each respective meeting to be its own conscience, as reflected with my paraphrase below from the published 12x12:
....sobriety (has) to be its sole objective. In all other respects there was perfect freedom of will and action. Every group (has) the right to be wrong...
So, for well over 50 yrs now, your present laments on what is or is not effective AA, has already been observed, and most efficiently dealt with, as you can hopefully understand.
I would suggest you have changed from being a naive newcomer, and so congratulations are in order.
As for what is or is not AA... yesterday, today, and into tomorrow... those concerns have already been well answered, yeah?www.aa.org has the complete 12x12 for free viewing.
Look into reading Tradition Three and Four, and I'm sure you'll feel more at ease about what is what at AA meetings. Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,191
There is a whole lot of confusion between religion and spirituality. What I believe is this:
The AA fellowship does not require you to do anything. The requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking, but you dont even have to meet that requirement to come to meetings! A lot of us didnt when we first came.
The AA Program is different from the fellowship. The program is the 12 steps. The steps do require that you believe in a higher power and that you are not it. Use the group, use whatever, but no higher power=no 12 steps. You choose what makes sense to you.
My higher power is God. I dont apologize for that nor do I feel that I need to. My intention is to share my experience and nothing else.
The AA fellowship does not require you to do anything. The requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking, but you dont even have to meet that requirement to come to meetings! A lot of us didnt when we first came.
The AA Program is different from the fellowship. The program is the 12 steps. The steps do require that you believe in a higher power and that you are not it. Use the group, use whatever, but no higher power=no 12 steps. You choose what makes sense to you.
My higher power is God. I dont apologize for that nor do I feel that I need to. My intention is to share my experience and nothing else.
Still I rise.
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Oh Canada!
Posts: 1,121
Originally Posted by bbthumper
There is a whole lot of confusion between religion and spirituality. What I believe is this:
The AA fellowship does not require you to do anything. The requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking, but you dont even have to meet that requirement to come to meetings! A lot of us didnt when we first came.
The AA Program is different from the fellowship. The program is the 12 steps. The steps do require that you believe in a higher power and that you are not it. Use the group, use whatever, but no higher power=no 12 steps. You choose what makes sense to you.
My higher power is God. I dont apologize for that nor do I feel that I need to. My intention is to share my experience and nothing else.
The AA fellowship does not require you to do anything. The requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking, but you dont even have to meet that requirement to come to meetings! A lot of us didnt when we first came.
The AA Program is different from the fellowship. The program is the 12 steps. The steps do require that you believe in a higher power and that you are not it. Use the group, use whatever, but no higher power=no 12 steps. You choose what makes sense to you.
My higher power is God. I dont apologize for that nor do I feel that I need to. My intention is to share my experience and nothing else.
Again, however, your OP states (twice in fact) that you are upset that meetings don't discuss god enough. This is where YOUR beliefs interfere with many of those who attend meetings (or don't precisely b/c of this rather overbearing belief in a presumably christian god) and don't share your conception of a god.
I think it is rather arrogant to begrudge a meeting b/c they don't conform to your idea of how many mentions of god it carries. Some of us appreciate the attempt to leave a uniform belief in a god at the door.
Recoveringed
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Thump
Posts: 409
Originally Posted by Gottalife
Thanks for your post BBT. I agree completely and by the same token I am responsible for what happens next. Unlike many these days I don't believe it is my job to just be around in case someone reaches out to me for help. My job is to carry the message to the alcoholic who still suffers.
Not so many years ago I said, in a meeting, "I am not a Big book scholar". Probably the most ignorant thing I have ever said.
Now realise I was wrong, that the BB is the manual of instruction, the only publication in existence with the instructions on how to take the steps. It tells me nothing will so much insure imunity from drinking as intensive work with other alcoholics. It also says a price must be paid, the destruction of my self centredness (helping others can be inconvenient).
The obsession has long been removed from me, and this was not dependent on any external circumstance other than God's grace. The problem no longer exists and I am completely free to do whatever I like in this world. Life is wonderful but not always a bed of roses. Everyone has problems, including me and I solve them with appropriate help from outside AA. I go to AA for my sobriety, to help others get sober, not to find out how to fix a lawnmower.
Right now a dear friend is faced with suffering a terminal illness. He works in my business, his future is uncertain, he may have one or two years or we could lose him in weeks. I have been through this before when I lost my wife. These are life issues, and, because God has removed the obsession, I am able to deal with them without even the thought of a drink. While I sometimes share on this as an example of the power of the program, I don't burden the meeting with the issue. I have God and professionals like grief counsellors and the amazing palliative care nurses to turn to, and of course one or two close AA friends.
When I go to AA I take care of my sobriety and spiritual condition by helping others and forgetting self. In the last few weeks God has found me two newcomers to work with, they couldn't have come along at a better time.
God bless,
Mike.
I could not agree more. Thank you very much for this post.
Recoveringed
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Thump
Posts: 409
Originally Posted by bbthumper
Thank you all for the response to this. I apologize if I came across as being negative. I love AA. It saved my life. Thats why I am so disturbed knowing that too many people are not getting the AA message. I have a core group of guys that are straight out of the book and we do what we can to reach out and carry the message in our groups. We go to meetings because that is where the newcomer is. If we dont work with others, our program suffers and eventually we will drink. We understand that we need to sponsor people. The scary thing is that we are often outnumbered by folks who feel as though AA is some type of group therapy. Some meetings are infiltrated with outside issues. It can give the impression sometimes that alcoholism is created by external circumstances instead of explaning the internal spiritual malady which is the true problem. We are promised that we will straighten out physically and mentally once the spiritual malady is overcome, yet the spiritual malady is seldom discussed in many meetings. We all have problems some big some small, but I was taught an AA meeting is for AA. All my other problems are to be discussed outside of the meeting. After all, if sitting around and discussing my problems with other alcoholics was enough to keep me sober, I would have sobered up long before I did!
God bless y'all!
~BBThumper
God bless y'all!
~BBThumper
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Since this not the official 12 Step Forum I don't think it is appropriate to discuss the pros and cons of AA meetings here. I will, however, use one quote that explains why there are so many pros and cons in the first place:
"You can get well in the fellowship of AA and find plenty of company that shares your experience. You can stay sick in the fellowship of AA and still find plenty of company that shares your experience."
- Joe Hawk
"You can get well in the fellowship of AA and find plenty of company that shares your experience. You can stay sick in the fellowship of AA and still find plenty of company that shares your experience."
- Joe Hawk
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 464
What are you doing about it? Can you stand on the principles laid out in the Big Book without sounding like one of the idiots who proclaim that open meetings are killing real alcoholics? Can you carry this message in such a meeting without alienating everyone else in there ( most of which need the book as well even if they don't think so). Most Thumpers do the Big Book a bigger disservice than open discussion meetings because they make it so unappealing that the still sick alcoholic will flock to the anything goes meeting.
Anger is never passion
Anger is never passion
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: De
Posts: 1,333
It's up to your group conscience for the meeting format for the newcomer. My homegroup, and many other groups in my area make sure every newcomer leaves the rooms with a meeting list and phone numbers. Our meeting format always goes into the first three steps. We also make sure to talk to them after the meeting. I think the OP is doing a huge dis-service to AA by the statement that 'Many' meeting are this way. I don't see it in my area. We are not God, we can save no one, we only carry the message. It may not be the one for them not matter how hard you thump The Big Book.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
The only thing I have to share is my experience. The book speaks for itself. If someone is serious about recovery then they will search until they find it. I cannot control what anyone else shares , nor can I control what anyone else hears or takes away from a meeting.
I get tired of war stories and competitive shares of who was the worse drunk, but I also know that some of those stories were things I could relate to that helped me identify with others in the group.
Many people have shared that they find what they need in a meeting. Perhaps our ears are attuned to the message we need that day and at that time.
I learned which meetings and which formats were most useful to me. We are each, ultimately responsible for our recovery and our recovery only. It is not our responsibility to insure that a newbie have a particular experience and exposure, even if that experience was helpful for us. All I have is my own experience to share, others may or may not relate.
I get tired of war stories and competitive shares of who was the worse drunk, but I also know that some of those stories were things I could relate to that helped me identify with others in the group.
Many people have shared that they find what they need in a meeting. Perhaps our ears are attuned to the message we need that day and at that time.
I learned which meetings and which formats were most useful to me. We are each, ultimately responsible for our recovery and our recovery only. It is not our responsibility to insure that a newbie have a particular experience and exposure, even if that experience was helpful for us. All I have is my own experience to share, others may or may not relate.
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