Peer reviewed literature
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 28
Peer reviewed literature
I'm trying to get myself re-initiated into the forums as I get back "on the wagon" after a relapse last month.
I've taken a pretty big personal step by getting over my "intellectual" objections to AA and have started attending meetings. I'm working on defining my Higher Power and getting over myself, but I still have a need for hard science in my journey. One of my other hang ups was admitting to suffering from depression and pursuing effective treatment.
One thing that has helped me look at the pharmacological options is the article from "Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research" linked to below (Link goes to a site hosted by the National Institue of Health), which discusses the use of a particular antidepressant in treating different types of alcoholics. I don't intend to construe this as medical advice, but rather as information that has helped me broaden my view on the tools available to help me in recovery.
TREATMENT OUTCOMES IN TYPE A AND B ALCOHOL DEPENDENCE 6 MONTHS AFTER SEROTONERGIC PHARMACOTHERAPY
I'm curious if there are other scientific articles that forum members have found to be helpful and/or encouraging in their recovery
I've taken a pretty big personal step by getting over my "intellectual" objections to AA and have started attending meetings. I'm working on defining my Higher Power and getting over myself, but I still have a need for hard science in my journey. One of my other hang ups was admitting to suffering from depression and pursuing effective treatment.
One thing that has helped me look at the pharmacological options is the article from "Alcoholism: Clinical and Experimental Research" linked to below (Link goes to a site hosted by the National Institue of Health), which discusses the use of a particular antidepressant in treating different types of alcoholics. I don't intend to construe this as medical advice, but rather as information that has helped me broaden my view on the tools available to help me in recovery.
TREATMENT OUTCOMES IN TYPE A AND B ALCOHOL DEPENDENCE 6 MONTHS AFTER SEROTONERGIC PHARMACOTHERAPY
I'm curious if there are other scientific articles that forum members have found to be helpful and/or encouraging in their recovery
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Good to hear you're getting back to a sans-alcohol life. Good to see you posting, and I hope your able to get alot out of your meetings and SR.
Isn't science wonderful? I read some of the link. Inconclusive results. My solution for alcoholic drinking required (and requires) a steadfast and sure solution which provides for me a liviable daily solution. I don't have time to wait for science to catch up and offer whatever.
Isn't science wonderful? I read some of the link. Inconclusive results. My solution for alcoholic drinking required (and requires) a steadfast and sure solution which provides for me a liviable daily solution. I don't have time to wait for science to catch up and offer whatever.
Member of SMART Recovery
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
After looking at a great deal of research (much of which has been posted here in various forums) I've concluded that what works best varies a great deal from individual to individual. For example, many people (including you) like AA, whereas I found it painful to the point of being disastrous to my mental health.
So over time, I've come to the conclusion that we all must reach our own decision about what works best for us. The only thing I truly decry is when the dominance of one approach becomes so great that other approaches become unavailable or are viewed as unacceptable. The pendulum swung a long way toward that situation but appears to be swinging in the other direction now. I am very grateful for that.
So over time, I've come to the conclusion that we all must reach our own decision about what works best for us. The only thing I truly decry is when the dominance of one approach becomes so great that other approaches become unavailable or are viewed as unacceptable. The pendulum swung a long way toward that situation but appears to be swinging in the other direction now. I am very grateful for that.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
The article made me curious as I have no idea what
"Type A and Type B" alcoholics aare.
I used no drugs to de tox or to deal with cravings
or mental obcession .
While it's good that research is ongoing about alcoholism
I can absolutely share that we can and do recover..
.
Please don't wait ...find a way to win over alcohol.
Recovery really rocks....
"Type A and Type B" alcoholics aare.
I used no drugs to de tox or to deal with cravings
or mental obcession .
While it's good that research is ongoing about alcoholism
I can absolutely share that we can and do recover..
.Please don't wait ...find a way to win over alcohol.
Recovery really rocks....
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada. About as far south as you can get
Posts: 4,768
Why don't you just Google and read AA's "The Doctors Opinion", "How It Works", "The Promises of Alcoholics Anonymous". Those got and keep me sober for quite some time.
The complete Big Book is available online as well.
I wish you the best in your recovery.
Bob R
The complete Big Book is available online as well.
I wish you the best in your recovery.
Bob R
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
If you take a look at what medical science has been able to do to “cure” the disease called “alcoholism” you discover, for the most part, that it is negligible. There is, of course, lots of help to safely detox from alcohol itself as well as lots of different treatments for depression, anxiety and other conditions which are related to many peoples alcoholism. All of this is good, and of enormous benefit to alcoholics, but for alcoholism itself, no cure, no magic pill.
I think what convinced me that AA might work were all the positive outcomes that were in evidence when I attended meetings. Here, were literally millions of people who had gone long periods of time without ever taking a drink. I simply could not dispute that outcome. At the same time, I simply could not believe that the people in those meetings had gotten sober by some variety of “spiritual” means. For me, at the time, that was like saying their method of recovery was witchcraft or magic. If there was a solution, I had to be able to understand it (at least on some level). I still tend to be that way. Yet here were all these AA people before me who had lived years without alcohol.
I had to nearly be forced into open mindedness. I thought, prior to this, that I was of course quite open minded. In fact I was not. I had dismissed all of the world’s religions as almost silly, without any serious study of any of them. I did not even have a notion of what was meant by “spirituality”.
I can understand a certain amount of “intellectual “pride that stems from wanting to figure things out. I finally needed to settle for what works.
I would recommend “The Spirituality of Imperfection” by Ernest Kurtz. I think you would like it.
I think what convinced me that AA might work were all the positive outcomes that were in evidence when I attended meetings. Here, were literally millions of people who had gone long periods of time without ever taking a drink. I simply could not dispute that outcome. At the same time, I simply could not believe that the people in those meetings had gotten sober by some variety of “spiritual” means. For me, at the time, that was like saying their method of recovery was witchcraft or magic. If there was a solution, I had to be able to understand it (at least on some level). I still tend to be that way. Yet here were all these AA people before me who had lived years without alcohol.
I had to nearly be forced into open mindedness. I thought, prior to this, that I was of course quite open minded. In fact I was not. I had dismissed all of the world’s religions as almost silly, without any serious study of any of them. I did not even have a notion of what was meant by “spirituality”.
I can understand a certain amount of “intellectual “pride that stems from wanting to figure things out. I finally needed to settle for what works.
I would recommend “The Spirituality of Imperfection” by Ernest Kurtz. I think you would like it.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 10
Hey, I'm so glad I logged in today! I'm a medical librarian. I'm gonna take a look at the literature tommorrow and tell you what I find. In the meantime, I can recommend a book about the biochemistry / neurology of addiction called The Compass of Pleasure.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
Posts: 5,068
Tyl3r,
I don't have a comment on your link, but I do have a comment on you trying to "define" your higher power. It isn't necessary. No where in the steps does say to define your higher power. In fact the BB says that all we need is the open mindedness to believe that there is a higher power. Definition of such in fact may not even be possible.
Work the steps. Turn whatever you know of yourself, over to whatever you know of your higher power, regardless of how poorly defined your HP is. As you continue in sobriety AND work the steps, your understanding of yourself, the AA program, and your HP will evolve tremendously. This particularly true for me after steps 5 and 9.
Don't let an undefined HP stop you from experiencing AA and the steps. I would even argue that a well defined HP is one RESULT of working the steps, not a prerequisite for working them.
I don't have a comment on your link, but I do have a comment on you trying to "define" your higher power. It isn't necessary. No where in the steps does say to define your higher power. In fact the BB says that all we need is the open mindedness to believe that there is a higher power. Definition of such in fact may not even be possible.
Work the steps. Turn whatever you know of yourself, over to whatever you know of your higher power, regardless of how poorly defined your HP is. As you continue in sobriety AND work the steps, your understanding of yourself, the AA program, and your HP will evolve tremendously. This particularly true for me after steps 5 and 9.
Don't let an undefined HP stop you from experiencing AA and the steps. I would even argue that a well defined HP is one RESULT of working the steps, not a prerequisite for working them.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,967
NIH in Bethesda, MD has on-going clinical trials with several different medications to attempt to locate one that will help those of us who have this "alcoholism" thing. This particular study seems to be just one of many that are published regularly. NIH receives the funding to perform these studies.
Sertraline is known as Zoloft.
Their "subjects" are paid volunteers. In this study, many of their "subjects" dropped out of the study. (once they got some money, they just didn't return! You get $50.00 just for the initial physical! yes, I have been a subject once, and no, I did not return to complete the study....)
For this study, they don't even have a consensus on what constitutes a Type A or a Type B alcoholic. Seems to me that this is just more money spent on another study with inconclusive findings. Here's a link on the 3 typologies (including the Babor typology) which is how one is possibly defined as a Type A or a Type B alcoholic.
http://www.isamweb.com/pages/pdfs/e-...%202/Lesch.pdf
Personally, I find this link to have more beneficial information in it (take a look!) than the study that was posted. NIH has links to most of their published and non-published (unless you consider the internet as a published study, but I've found students' papers online as I searched the web, which were really written just for their grade in a class).
Enjoy your reading! I'm off to live a sober free life right now, and it's awfully fun living without any alcohol or drugs as a crutch today!
Best wishes,
Sertraline is known as Zoloft.
Their "subjects" are paid volunteers. In this study, many of their "subjects" dropped out of the study. (once they got some money, they just didn't return! You get $50.00 just for the initial physical! yes, I have been a subject once, and no, I did not return to complete the study....)
For this study, they don't even have a consensus on what constitutes a Type A or a Type B alcoholic. Seems to me that this is just more money spent on another study with inconclusive findings. Here's a link on the 3 typologies (including the Babor typology) which is how one is possibly defined as a Type A or a Type B alcoholic.
http://www.isamweb.com/pages/pdfs/e-...%202/Lesch.pdf
Personally, I find this link to have more beneficial information in it (take a look!) than the study that was posted. NIH has links to most of their published and non-published (unless you consider the internet as a published study, but I've found students' papers online as I searched the web, which were really written just for their grade in a class).
Enjoy your reading! I'm off to live a sober free life right now, and it's awfully fun living without any alcohol or drugs as a crutch today!
Best wishes,
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Along with the idea of peer reviewed literature is the gold standard of evidence based practices for substance abuse disorders. You know, science.
The VA published this list: Substance Use Disorders – Evidence Based Practices | The Governor's Focus on Returning Combat Veterans and their Families.
The VA published this list: Substance Use Disorders – Evidence Based Practices | The Governor's Focus on Returning Combat Veterans and their Families.
Another Day in Paradise
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 900
Just my two cents worth:
I am voracious reader and in some circles would pass for well educated. I can if left to my own devices over think just about anything. I am not denigrating any of the comments preceding my post, but several years ago I stopped drinking, fought through the cravings and began to learn how to live life without a dependence on alcohol. I used the support of others that I found in AA and after a couple of years I found a life without alcohol.
I believe that at least in my case, not dwelling on why I drank and concentrating on just not drinking and more importantly living a life that had so many other facets than alcohol has allowed me to enjoy an existence I never even imagined.
I hope you will find your solution where ever you choose to look. Years ago I remember a teacher demonstrating just how our minds work by pointing out that if we are told "not to think about elephants” that is all we can think about, even if prior to the admonition we had no inclination to dwell on pachyderms.
Best wishes,
Jon
I am voracious reader and in some circles would pass for well educated. I can if left to my own devices over think just about anything. I am not denigrating any of the comments preceding my post, but several years ago I stopped drinking, fought through the cravings and began to learn how to live life without a dependence on alcohol. I used the support of others that I found in AA and after a couple of years I found a life without alcohol.
I believe that at least in my case, not dwelling on why I drank and concentrating on just not drinking and more importantly living a life that had so many other facets than alcohol has allowed me to enjoy an existence I never even imagined.
I hope you will find your solution where ever you choose to look. Years ago I remember a teacher demonstrating just how our minds work by pointing out that if we are told "not to think about elephants” that is all we can think about, even if prior to the admonition we had no inclination to dwell on pachyderms.
Best wishes,
Jon
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 28
I think there's some misinterpretation of my goal with this post. I know there's no miracle cure or silver bullet, but there are many paths and none of the are all that well documented. There are clearly physical, psychological and spiritual aspects of recovery, and different tools to address each. One doesn't necessarily need to understand the tools to use them.
For example, I can't explain the difference between cipro and penicillan - I take what my doctor says to take because the perscription is based on a robust foundation of testing and studies. I'm not a doctor and have relatively little training in the science behind them, so taking the antibiotics is a measure of faith. That said, the reasons they are prescribed are verifiable and in this Internet age they are increasingly available.
But, unlike some other diseases that manifest and recur over a lifetime (e.g. diabetes or cancer) the information available on the different types of treatment for Alcoholism seems sparse. Cancer seems an especially appropriate comparison.
There are many, many types of cancer and many types of treatment. Someone may have a tumor removed and then undergo chemotherapy. Some may need chemo to attack the cancer before it can be successfully removed. Someone else may have radiation treatment and a bone marrow transplant. Some will enter remission only to have the cancer reemerge months or years later. Some are cured for life. There are ever growing bodies of research used to refine the treatments to improve the lives of those who suffer from cancer.
In my mind, AA is like Chemo. It may be the only necessary treatment of some, an augmentation to pharmacological and/or psychological therapy, or completely unnecessary depending on the alcoholic. Unlike chemo, I don't think there are a lot of downsides to the treatment, besides perhaps sub-par coffee.
The paper I linked to was the first instance I had seen that discussed a particular treatment (i.e. sertraline) as being statistically significant in the treatment of one type of alcoholic and not in another. That's the sort of thing I'm interested in, because it helps me find new information that I can share with my Doctor, who as a GP doesn't necessarily have the time to become familiar with the latest research on everything someone may seek treatment for.
As the paper Sugarbear linked to points out, there are a number of different alcoholic typologies that can be used to classify the manifestation of the disease, and some go so far as to discus different treatments and prognoses.
I'm giving AA a try, but I believe there are tools I can use to improve the likelihood of success. If there's a "tumor" that I can remove with antidepressants, therapy, or other mechanisms that makes for a better prognosis, it makes all the sense in the world to spend some time understanding what's available.
For example, I can't explain the difference between cipro and penicillan - I take what my doctor says to take because the perscription is based on a robust foundation of testing and studies. I'm not a doctor and have relatively little training in the science behind them, so taking the antibiotics is a measure of faith. That said, the reasons they are prescribed are verifiable and in this Internet age they are increasingly available.
But, unlike some other diseases that manifest and recur over a lifetime (e.g. diabetes or cancer) the information available on the different types of treatment for Alcoholism seems sparse. Cancer seems an especially appropriate comparison.
There are many, many types of cancer and many types of treatment. Someone may have a tumor removed and then undergo chemotherapy. Some may need chemo to attack the cancer before it can be successfully removed. Someone else may have radiation treatment and a bone marrow transplant. Some will enter remission only to have the cancer reemerge months or years later. Some are cured for life. There are ever growing bodies of research used to refine the treatments to improve the lives of those who suffer from cancer.
In my mind, AA is like Chemo. It may be the only necessary treatment of some, an augmentation to pharmacological and/or psychological therapy, or completely unnecessary depending on the alcoholic. Unlike chemo, I don't think there are a lot of downsides to the treatment, besides perhaps sub-par coffee.
The paper I linked to was the first instance I had seen that discussed a particular treatment (i.e. sertraline) as being statistically significant in the treatment of one type of alcoholic and not in another. That's the sort of thing I'm interested in, because it helps me find new information that I can share with my Doctor, who as a GP doesn't necessarily have the time to become familiar with the latest research on everything someone may seek treatment for.
As the paper Sugarbear linked to points out, there are a number of different alcoholic typologies that can be used to classify the manifestation of the disease, and some go so far as to discus different treatments and prognoses.
I'm giving AA a try, but I believe there are tools I can use to improve the likelihood of success. If there's a "tumor" that I can remove with antidepressants, therapy, or other mechanisms that makes for a better prognosis, it makes all the sense in the world to spend some time understanding what's available.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Cambridge, England
Posts: 31
Tyl3r - I found your enquiry interesting. This may be something you want to look at ..Champix (varenicline) - this is used to help people quit smoking- (i used it and it worked well) - my mum who was a heavy smoker and alcoholic also started it and stopped drinking (did not stop smoking).. -the family were amazed - she said she simple didn't feel like drinking when she took the medication - there was no pressure to stop drinking- she just didn't feel like it anymore. With this i did some research and it seems there is some scientific basis for this and there is some interest in getting it approved as a medication to help manage alcoholism ... genes- physiology - neurotransmitters - pharmacology etc etc - it's a complex web and i don't think anyone would be surprised that for some subsets of alcoholics certain alterations in CNS chemistry may reduce the urge to consume ethanol....
Varenicline Reduces Alcohol Self-Administration in Heavy-Drinking Smokers
Varenicline Reduces Alcohol Self-Administration in Heavy-Drinking Smokers
also...
http://tauruspet.med.yale.edu/staff/..._microdial.pdf
and
Varenicline, an α4β2 nicotinic acetylcholine receptor partial agonist, selectively decreases ethanol consumption and seeking
Varenicline, an
Varenicline Reduces Alcohol Self-Administration in Heavy-Drinking Smokers
Varenicline Reduces Alcohol Self-Administration in Heavy-Drinking Smokers
also...
http://tauruspet.med.yale.edu/staff/..._microdial.pdf
and
Varenicline, an α4β2 nicotinic acetylcholine receptor partial agonist, selectively decreases ethanol consumption and seeking
Varenicline, an
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Reading. Berks. England
Posts: 134
9 years in AA eventually led me to a state of suicidal depression. After a total emotional collapse (due in part to AA related pressure, manipulation, and coercion) I deprogrammed, took back 100% control of my life, and found Rational Recovery. I've chosen not to take a drink since, and every day choose and follow my own path. Finally i've found real freedom.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 10
OK, here's my follow up as promised. There is a truly MASSIVE literature on alcoholism and various treatments, including AA. The feds maintain an outstanding database of citations for the medical literature called PubMed. You can google that and go there and do pretty well with a simple keyword search. Most of the citations include abstracts but for the whole article you would need a subscription - the kind that a hospital or university would have. Each article has a unique identifier called a PubMed ID or PMID. So I found some really interesting articles and here are the PMIDs. Just google the number with the acronym. 22118653 21909311 21761948 20953618 22733829 21785524 Iwould link to them but i'm on my phone and its a pain. If you check one out, click on the MeSH terms and this will show you the precise vocab to use to target your searches. Good luck!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Tyl .... Thank you for posting, looks like useful information.
From what I've read it's almost the norm for alcoholics to have another illness, like depression and bipolar. I've been on anti-depressants most of my life; thanks to a wonderful shrink I feel good most of the time. I don't talk about depression in meetings because I don't want unsolicited advice. One of AA's pamphlets "AA and Medication" is great, it says no one should play doctor.
I got a lot from the HBO documentary, "Addiction", which you can watch free on their website. A number of physicians who are experts in addictions are interviewed. One of the best interviews is Nora Volkow MD, who talks about the science.
I choose my higher power as well. GOD=group of drunks. It's worked fine for 20 years. I think it's important to find the right sponsor, someone like-minded who you relate to.
Best of luck! There's lots of science around.
From what I've read it's almost the norm for alcoholics to have another illness, like depression and bipolar. I've been on anti-depressants most of my life; thanks to a wonderful shrink I feel good most of the time. I don't talk about depression in meetings because I don't want unsolicited advice. One of AA's pamphlets "AA and Medication" is great, it says no one should play doctor.
I got a lot from the HBO documentary, "Addiction", which you can watch free on their website. A number of physicians who are experts in addictions are interviewed. One of the best interviews is Nora Volkow MD, who talks about the science.
I choose my higher power as well. GOD=group of drunks. It's worked fine for 20 years. I think it's important to find the right sponsor, someone like-minded who you relate to.
Best of luck! There's lots of science around.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
Every scientific breakthrough begins with "inconclusive findings" that lead to further tests that lead to more conclusive findings that lead to something really being discovered.
If the outcome was sure, it would not be an experiment.
Given that there is no 100% sure path to recovery, I have to be glad when anyone is looking for a way to help more people.
If the outcome was sure, it would not be an experiment.
Given that there is no 100% sure path to recovery, I have to be glad when anyone is looking for a way to help more people.
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