Sally1009

Whats the specific reason for not mentioning drugs?

GrowingDaily

So a bunch of drug addicts can pretend they're something other than drug addicts.

At least that's what I'm coming away with.

GrowingDaily

And what of all the other groups other posters have mentioned that don't flip out the minute someone dares to mention drugs? Have they all failed too?

You're confusing correlation with causation.

BackToSquareOne

Lets say you have a person that drinks 8 beers a day and another that drinks a half gallon of vodka a day, there is no way the beer guy could relate to the vodka guy. Some people consider themselves alcoholics based on regularity not intensity. Everyone doesn't drink themself into a zombie, not much common ground there either.

jojoba

If I seem fanatical to some of you it's because I'm so passionate about the program--I'm trying to save it from the seeds of destruction...

A time bomb was planted in AA in the '80s and early 90's when too many rehab people and court slippers of questionable commitment to sobriety flooded our church basements. Outside ideas infiltrated.

If you're overweight and in ill health, you start eating right and go on a diet. You don't keep buying bigger and bigger pairs of "relaxed-fit" jeans.

But this has become a relaxed-fit program over the years.

To save AA, shrink the membership, start reading the BB again.

miamifella

It seems silly to put restrictions on what alcoholics can discuss at meetings. They can talk about their problems in relationships, with families, or work but they cannot mention that they smelled pot and thought of throwing away sobriety?

Or they can talk about it if they lie and say they smelled beer?

It feels that there is no real problem with cross-addicted people as long as they do not mention their addiction to anything other than alcohol. Is that right?

If so that makes a complete logical hash of the argument.

recoverywfaith

I know I got shut down when I was a newbie in AA for mentioning trying to quit smoking....I finally had the nerve to speak and was a complete wreck and was afraid I would drink. Well, a guy shut me down and started yelling at me which stopped me dead in my tracks. Later it was explained to me what a closed meeting was...never made that mistake again...but it did take me along time to talk again. Personally, if someone is struggling really struggling to not drink/use and it would help them to share and hear some ES&H in an open meeting I think it should occur.

miamifella

recoverywfaith--Was it the mention of smoking or the admission that you were afraid you were going to drink? In most meetings that I went to admitting the urge without explaining how you overcame it would be called "living in the problem and not the solution."

I think that talking honestly about what is going on is key to recovery. I think that asking someone to censor talking about what is bothering them and not letting them discuss feeling the urge to drink even when they do not have a solution....it just seems to me that the effect would be to push someone toward drinking.

It always seemed to me that meetings for AA, NA, etc, ought to be about helping those people in danger of drinking, using. But by preventing them from talking openly about the desire to drink or use...we are putting them in danger.

recoverywfaith

It was mid 1990's and I was very much a newbie and learning about AA. Not knowing about the structure of meetings such as closed and open meetings, ES&H, not sharing just the problem without a solution, no cross talking, etc. I did learn a very valuable lesson. But, I do think that sometimes others could share if they were having a problem and trying to work towards a solution...especially if they are new to the program.

miamifella

recoverywfaith--I think that one of the biggest problems in the program is that there is so much emphasis on getting a sponsor, but one really just needs to find someone who will explain the lingo, the rules, and what is supposed to happen.

I ended up letting possibly good sponsors go out of ignorance. If I had known more about the program and understood it better. Maybe this is less of an issue now with the internet making info more readily available. (For example, I finally learned years later on Sober Recovery why one sponsor went ballistic on me. I just did not know that I was supposed to get the number of someone in another town when I went on a trip. They don't tell you that in the BB and the sponsor never explained it. But I learned it on SR. I wonder what else I did not know.......)

It is always interesting how irate people get when newbies do not understand things. But that will always be the case since it seems to be part of the program that information is not shared until it is asked for--or at the very least until the newbie has "proven" him or herself. Given that, of course people will step on toes.

jojoba

The Program is perfect. Only people within the program are imperfect, especially since court slips started being signed.

The Big Book has many levels of meaning, both apparent and hidden. My original sponsor taught me to read between the lines to get to the truth.

These days most people give the BB a superficial reading. As a result they think they are happy, joyous and free, when they are not. It's like someone eating a slice of Sbarro's and thinking it's great pizza, when what they are biting into is cardboard.

Justfor1

The Program is perfect? I don't believe that at all. Many AA'ers (myself included) need help outside as well. The BigBook even talks about it. As far as the court slip people. How dumb could a person be if they can't figure out that they can sign their own slip after going to a few meetings? The program is Anonymous. Alcohol is a drug & NA views it as such. I suspect you feel that you are better than the typical "dope head" or "junkie"?

stugotz

I have to disagree with you. I think Sbarro's makes good pizza.

jojoba

To each his own. I don't care for it--after NY and Chicago pizza, it's not the real thing. I heard they were going out of business like Border's but they are still around. Maybe they reorganized.

thoughts

Most of the people I met in AA were super nice and supportive, but there were a few people who's stink eyes are the reason that, to this day, I would won't go back unless the court orders my return. That is the case because of this attitude.

How is it that DUI's, cheating on spouses, trips to the hospital, losing custody of children, depression, and anxiety are all fair game in AA, but if an alcoholic mentions that they are struggling with a drug then they are taking away from the mission of AA? If AA began to allow members to censor what other members are allowed to talk about based on their ability to relate, then what would be left to discuss? Just seems a bit self-important to me...

Also, there was a very real hierarchy at the meetings I went to. I witnessed a newcomer get yelled at for taking too much time sharing their story after being asked to introduce themselves and share, meanwhile, older members who had been going to meetings for years would talk about the stress they felt while shopping for dog food... nobody said a word.

I guess my point is this: AA has such a broad appeal to alcoholics because of the freedom to share and relate. There isn't one aspect of an alcoholic's life that isn't affected by their alcoholism, so who is anybody to disregard someone else's life struggles? It should all be considered relevant.

stugotz

No one attends AA because they have the most perfect, emotionally stable life on the planet. Quite the opposite, and to think that a medallion changes all that is hysterical. Some are sicker than others, and some stay sick. Just sayin....

Zube

Correct. Bill W simply "experimented" with a combination of LSD and Niacin as the "miracle" cure to alcoholism for 3 or 4 years in the mid to late 50's. Don't believe me? There's a whole chapter on it in AA "approved and sanctioned" book "Pass it On".

If I recall, Bill W. was an oldtimer.

Sorry for the sarcasm. Holier than thou oldtimers go on my resentment list real quick.

Zube

PaperDolls

I'm pretty sure this thread is about an "Outburst at a meeting" as the title suggests. May be the debate over what is a drug could go on elsewhere?

jojoba

That's why I tell my sponsees that it's their own business whether they choose to continue taking illegal drugs (if they do). If the founders and possibly some of the First 100 did it, it would be ego-driven behavior for me to dictate that my sponsees not do it. I don't put myself on the same level as the First 100.

Mark75

Well, I don't think we can dictate anything to our sponsees... But I do disagree jojoba... the twelve steps are a path to a spiritual awakening, and OK, hallucinogens have been used for centuries (?) for that purpose... but I would consider anyone using illegal drugs to be sabotaging their own success in the program.

That's just me....