Sapling

Sure I get the idea...You still have the same mind though. And it could wake up or thaw out at any time....It's still there though. It doesn't hurt to remember that.

Pigtails

I think like this, and I sometimes even start to think that I can go have a drink with co-workers and be just fine. Like, I can handle it and control it. But I just have to remember what it did to me, where it took me, and I lose that desire to drink. It sounds like you have many reasons not to drink too, because, after you've come this far, why test it? It's good to be confident in your sobriety but I think it's also good to be on guard against slipping back into the past. Good luck and best wishes!

Sapling

What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition.

I can't forget that either....And I don't.

RobbyRobot

No, I don't have the same mind, so I'm not sure you do get the idea, you know?

I have a new mind, one I never had before. I have a spiritual sober mind if I had to define it with words. My psyche is new and complete, not just a change in my thinking....

I'm a new person. Sober. Spiritual.

So for me, it is useless to remember that it [my alcoholic mind] could wake up or thaw out at any time. If and when it does, my sobriety will make short work of any alcoholic thinkings, and I'll be staying sober. Nothing to worry about whatsoever. Sobriety really works... its not a mind game that needs me to keep a candle burning waiting for the worse so that I'll be ready and not be caught surprised.

I am free of my alcoholism and so then free of my alcoholic mind. This is not mere semantics here. Real freedom lived daily. And I'm not unique either.

RobbyRobot

Yeah, I don't forget that either. And I don't worry about my spritual condition either, and I dont fret about having a daily reprieve from my alcoholism.

Sobriety really works, so no problemo, you know?!

Sapling

So you're not an alcoholic anymore??...You're cured?

RobbyRobot

I'm still an alcoholic. No cure for my illness of alcoholism.

LosingmyMisery

I'm still an alcoholic also, RR. The difference being then and now, simply, I don't drink. Can't/won't. I have a different mindset as well. The transformation of my new mindset I find utterly puzzling and a blessing at the same time. Obviously, it is a welcomed transformation. I understand what you're saying, completely.

Cantonian

I personally would never consider myself "cured" or "recovered" from alcoholism
( recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body for the last four years?, YES! for sure!).

That is dangerous thinking for me, it creates the perfect opportunity for my disease to start 'talking' to me again, convincing me I'm normal and it "wasn't so bad"...

I think of the disease of alcoholism as an invisible shadow that follows me...it's always there, and always will be, patiently waiting...it wants me dead but would be happy with me miserable.

I live with it daily...and every day is a new one.

Sapling

I just have one more question on this...Because I like to learn. Let's say you have 11 years contented sobriety...You work a good program...All is good. Then you start going to less meetings...Slack up on your spiritual growth...and find yourself testing the waters again. (I have a guy in my homegroup that this happened to.)
So, insanely you go back out for 4 years...Would this insanity come from your new mind...Or the alcoholic mind that is always there?

RobbyRobot

Ok, the slacking up on the spiritual growth is the key statement here. My alcoholism is in remission and my alcoholic mind shut down precisely because of my ongoing spiritual growth.

For example, let's say I develop a new resentment caused by my being selfish and self-centered over my experience of being passed over for the promotion at work that everbody, in my opinion of course, thought I deserved instead of the other guy who nobody likes. So the other jerk gets the new job and I get nothing. And worse yet, the new guy is now my direct supervisor who I report to daily. I'm angry, discontented, ungrateful, untrusting, etc etc

As my spiritual sober mind begins to struggle because I'm choosing to relish my discomfort by wallowing in my selfishness, my new sober mind would demand I clear away the garbage blocking me from the spiritual solution that I know so well to be the answer to my life challenges.

Let's say I ignore the warnings and continue my destructive game with selfishness and so now I'm gonna look for some real life justifications for feeling lousy, and I'm gonna want some reward for putting up with all the crap that is now in my life again.

And then it happens -- my new boss informs me things could be better and there is gonna be a round of temporary layoffs and I'm one of the first to go under the knife. So I lose my temper, let him know what I think, and I quit in the same breath before he can fire me. So now I'm outta of work.

Aha! Now I have a concrete real life reason to justify my discontentment and I'm almost ready to believe my own crap that I'm not at fault in any of this happening -- the thing is though of course my sober mind would be working overtime to get me back onto a spiritual understanding that I am the problem here. Well, we can fix that nagging by creating a new resentment against how sobriety really didn't help me with my job, and now that I think on it, sobriety also didn't do much for my wife who won't talk to me because I lost my job. She says I'm acting like I use to when I was drinking.

Bingo!! Its critical I *now same day* get back to my understanding of living a spiritual life by doing the AA program, or I now risk losing my mind, so to speak. For our example let's say I lose it completely and go back to testing the waters, as you say. So off I go to think things through with some wet booze with the boys from work who also got layed off. Yeah, we deserve better, lol.

Okay, so the day, the hour, the minute, I used my own power of selfishness and self-centeredness to blockout my HP so that I could actually pickup that drink was the same "moment in time" that my sober mind went bye-bye, like gone, non-existent--- and so of course my alcoholic mind comes outta deep-freeze all ready to go like nothing happened and the boozing just made the best sense, and so I would naturally drink the drink no problemo.

So, to answer you, my drinking again would come from my old alcoholic mind because my alcoholism would no longer be in remission because I would no longer be accepting that i am powerless against alcoholism and so I'd have no *spiritual defense* against that next drink. Being a chronic alcoholic, of course I'm gonna take that next drink. Nothing from me will stop that. As a confirmed alcoholic, I am doomed to take that next drink.... of course unless I am living a sober spiritual life as a result of my surrender to my defeat and I live the AA way into the good life with a new sober mind created from living the program.

As a recovered alcoholic drug addict (my full title, lol) my sober mind cannot take that drink. I'm not just some normal guy with a normal mind. I have a new sober mind because my old alcoholic mind is in remission and turned off. In remission because I live a spiritual sober life.

I'll always be an alcoholic because my illness has no cure as such, and so without a daily spiritual maintenance as provided by the AA way, I would not have a new sober mind, and of course it would be my old alcoholic mind that same as always did all the thinking for me when it came to getting a drunk on.

Whadda ya think?

DayTrader

I get it Robbie....well said.

However, in my first year or maybe two.....that stuff would have FLOOOOOWN over my head.

Raindance

I don't see why we need to argue about semantics.

You want to quit drinking, and you want to quit drinking.

If you have found a way that works, huzzah! You get to live free another day.

If we look for the similarities and not the differences, we can actually work together. I don't give a rat's ass if you think your way is better than mine. My way is working, so it's the best way for me.

Recovery is not a product to be bought and sold, so I see no reason to try to prove one way over another. Unless their motive is in the buying and not the recovery.

Peace to you all.

RobbyRobot

Yeah, I know what you mean, lol. I'm sharing today with 30 years of unbroken sobriety. Back in '81 I was just doing everything not to get drunk myself. After a year or two or three (hahaha) I "personally understood" from my growing sober experiences of what I'm sharing now. This sober spiritual knowledge did not happen overnight, of course, just as you're saying... and as I'm saying...

The question made good sense so I answered it...

RobbyRobot

You know, I don't see any argument, and I don't see anybody saying what is better or whatever. I do see people sharing honestly from their personal experience, and nothing wrong with that at all.

Nothing being sold or bought here. It's all good.

Sapling

I appreciate that....Let me go walk my dog...And read that again. Thanks Robbie.

Sapling

Okay, so the day, the hour, the minute, I used my own power of selfishness and self-centeredness to blockout my HP so that I could actually pickup that drink was the same "moment in time" that my sober mind went bye-bye, like gone, non-existent--- and so of course my alcoholic mind comes outta deep-freeze all ready to go like nothing happened and the boozing just made the best sense, and so I would naturally drink the drink no problemo.

I guess that sums it up.....You know...I'm new in this program...All I have done is what I was told to do...Mostly from the Big Book....And my sponsor..I've worked the steps...I continue to practice those principles...To the best of my ability....Sorry if I ask questions...It helps me a lot...By the grace of God I was placed in a HG with some very humble long timers...I learn a lot from them...They seem to be more into sharing what they have with me...than telling me what they have...You know what I mean?....I got a lot to learn in this program...And that is OK with me...I'll just keep asking questions and keep trudging along. Thanks for your time.

RobbyRobot

Awesome stuff, Sapling. Good to know we have an honest understanding and respect for each other, its what sober fellowship is all about, sharing freely from our own experiences. Your a good man, you know, and I'm grateful we had some time to get to know each other a bit more today. Thanks for that.

Sapling

I thank you...And look forward to learning from you.

DaveVelasco

Congrats for you to be able to stop drinking and being sober.
A lot of us has gone through different trials too, and I think we all deserve the chance to change and really cope ourselves.