Your relapse keeps me sober.........
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
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Originally Posted by Kellye C 
In my time in sobriety I have seen many relapses both in the rooms and on here. I have heard more times than I can count about looking to the left and right of you and some won't make it. Then they have laughed and told the other one "Well, I hope it's you!" I've been to many funerals and after every single one of them I have heard someone say that some must die so that others can live.
Thanks for the honesty, Kellye. I know that anyone who has spent time in certain circles has heard all of this defeatist, putrid nonsense before. What I found even more distressing, though, is that more than a few looked the other way while others were saying it, or even joined in.
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Powerful, Kelly. I agree. It scared me to think... well, I've toyed around with the idea, seen others die, relapse... everything going to hell. Finally, the idea just pounced on me one day: What if I stop TODAY and never drink again. What's stopping me from doing that? Nothing but my own thoughts.
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I've even been told by people on this forum that if I leave this forum, I'll probably relapse! 
What's that about? Anyway... to each her own. Nothing anyone does or says is going to make me pour alcohol down my throat... only listening to my AV will do that.
What's that about? Anyway... to each her own. Nothing anyone does or says is going to make me pour alcohol down my throat... only listening to my AV will do that.
High on Life
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Originally Posted by AVRT
If a therapist in treatment told me that, I would tell them "So, you are saying that your treatment doesn't work very well? Why, precisely, should I pay you all this money for it, then?"
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Originally Posted by TheEnd
I remember in treatment, the therapist said "Look to the right and look to the left, most of these people won't be here a year from now". At the time I didn't believe it, everyone was so motivated about their new found sobriety, that you couldn't envision anyone ever going back out.
I have been out of treatment for 3 months now, and I have been keeping in touch with many of the people that I met in treatment. Many of them have relapsed multiple times, are in other treatment centers, or still out in the grips of their addiction.
As sad as it sounds, hearing about their relapses keeps me sober, because I don't want to be where they are. I don't want to be in that terrible place where death seems like a rational idea.
I have been out of treatment for 3 months now, and I have been keeping in touch with many of the people that I met in treatment. Many of them have relapsed multiple times, are in other treatment centers, or still out in the grips of their addiction.
As sad as it sounds, hearing about their relapses keeps me sober, because I don't want to be where they are. I don't want to be in that terrible place where death seems like a rational idea.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 583
Originally Posted by onlythetruth
I would caution those of you who are saying "some must die so that others may live" NEVER to say this at a funeral.
I have been at the funerals of several suicides, and have heard people say these things in the family's presence. This is always extremely hurtful.
I must also comment that over 13 years of relapse-free, contented abstinence from alcohol I have never felt a moment of gratitude for someone else's pain, relapse or suicide.
I have been at the funerals of several suicides, and have heard people say these things in the family's presence. This is always extremely hurtful.
I must also comment that over 13 years of relapse-free, contented abstinence from alcohol I have never felt a moment of gratitude for someone else's pain, relapse or suicide.
I understand this. I lost my wife to this disease in April of this year. 14 years of marriage. I lost of friend when I was three months sober when he took his own life. Now knocking on 20 years, while I don't take that lightly I do understand the realism it takes and how close reality is before this is taken seriously.
AG
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 254
I should add, that I've only heard "Some die so that others can live" here...I'm 20 months sober today, but I've never been to an AA meeting...
When I say that someone's relapse motivates me to stay sober, I don't say it with glee...I say it due to the horror...much in the same way seeing a motorcycle accident motivates me to wear a helmet...it doesn't make me glad it happened...
When I say that someone's relapse motivates me to stay sober, I don't say it with glee...I say it due to the horror...much in the same way seeing a motorcycle accident motivates me to wear a helmet...it doesn't make me glad it happened...
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Originally Posted by TheEnd
I remember in treatment, the therapist said "Look to the right and look to the left, most of these people won't be here a year from now". At the time I didn't believe it, everyone was so motivated about their new found sobriety, that you couldn't envision anyone ever going back out.
I have been out of treatment for 3 months now, and I have been keeping in touch with many of the people that I met in treatment. Many of them have relapsed multiple times, are in other treatment centers, or still out in the grips of their addiction.
As sad as it sounds, hearing about their relapses keeps me sober, because I don't want to be where they are. I don't want to be in that terrible place where death seems like a rational idea.
I have been out of treatment for 3 months now, and I have been keeping in touch with many of the people that I met in treatment. Many of them have relapsed multiple times, are in other treatment centers, or still out in the grips of their addiction.
As sad as it sounds, hearing about their relapses keeps me sober, because I don't want to be where they are. I don't want to be in that terrible place where death seems like a rational idea.
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
Originally Posted by Beebizzy
People say that??? My goodness... How does that benefit anyone (officially)? I must be missing something here.
BB
BB
And it's one thing to say it at an AA meeting (not that I agree with it, even then). But when it's said at a funeral, it's downright cruel to the family and shows a lack of consideration that it absolutely stunning.
I was at the funeral once of a young heroin addict/alcoholic who had hung himself. He was 19. His father was in AA, but the rest of the family were not. A group of us were standing near the coffin, with this young boy, barely more than a child, laid out right there and someone loudly, almost in a "praise Jesus" tone said the "some must die...." thing. That boy's mother was standing RIGHT THERE and I saw the look on her face. I am a mother myself, and I will never forget that look of utter agony.
Sorry to emphasize this once again but this is so important. We can disagree about the validity of the sentiment all day long, but I don't think there is ever a reason to say it in front of grieving family members.
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Originally Posted by onlythetruth
Yes, Beebizzy, they say that. In fact, I don't believe I ever knew of a suicide in the rooms where someone didn't say that at some point. The first time I heard it I thought it must be just that one person's rather odd way of viewing things, but no--it's an extremely common statement.
And it's one thing to say it at an AA meeting (not that I agree with it, even then). But when it's said at a funeral, it's downright cruel to the family and shows a lack of consideration that it absolutely stunning.
I was at the funeral once of a young heroin addict/alcoholic who had hung himself. He was 19. His father was in AA, but the rest of the family were not. A group of us were standing near the coffin, with this young boy, barely more than a child, laid out right there and someone loudly, almost in a "praise Jesus" tone said the "some must die...." thing. That boy's mother was standing RIGHT THERE and I saw the look on her face. I am a mother myself, and I will never forget that look of utter agony.
Sorry to emphasize this once again but this is so important. We can disagree about the validity of the sentiment all day long, but I don't think there is ever a reason to say it in front of grieving family members.
And it's one thing to say it at an AA meeting (not that I agree with it, even then). But when it's said at a funeral, it's downright cruel to the family and shows a lack of consideration that it absolutely stunning.
I was at the funeral once of a young heroin addict/alcoholic who had hung himself. He was 19. His father was in AA, but the rest of the family were not. A group of us were standing near the coffin, with this young boy, barely more than a child, laid out right there and someone loudly, almost in a "praise Jesus" tone said the "some must die...." thing. That boy's mother was standing RIGHT THERE and I saw the look on her face. I am a mother myself, and I will never forget that look of utter agony.
Sorry to emphasize this once again but this is so important. We can disagree about the validity of the sentiment all day long, but I don't think there is ever a reason to say it in front of grieving family members.
BB
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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only
There certainly is context to that statement and others and a funeral is not the right place for those statements. There is always hope. How bad do you want it. One must be wiling to give up everything and even then nothing is guaranteed. I personally held/hold on to The Promises.
AG
There certainly is context to that statement and others and a funeral is not the right place for those statements. There is always hope. How bad do you want it. One must be wiling to give up everything and even then nothing is guaranteed. I personally held/hold on to The Promises.
AG
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Originally Posted by AlwaysGrowing
There certainly is context to that statement and others and a funeral is not the right place for those statements.
Originally Posted by AlwaysGrowing
There is always hope. How bad do you want it. One must be wiling to give up everything and even then nothing is guaranteed.
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Originally Posted by TheEnd
Treatment isn't 100%. You get out of it, what you put into it. No treatment center is going to tell you that your success is guaranteed.
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Originally Posted by AVRT
The only context is fear. It is said to keep people perpetually afraid of "the disease" and to dial up their relapse anxiety. It has always been the case that some will die, but that does not mean that some must die. Human sacrifice has been out of vogue for some time now, for good reason.
The only thing one must be willing to give up are hedonic drugs.
The only thing one must be willing to give up are hedonic drugs.
I see that phrase as a reality and appreciate my life here on this earth. Experience the gift of hugs from my kids to having to remove life support from their mother. I just have a difference experiences and views. Doesn't make it right, wrong for anyone else. The point I take away is that I must see people I know die to this disease for me to have an appreciation of life. That is my take away.
AG
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Originally Posted by AVRT
"Treatment isn't 100%" is quite different from "treatment won't work for most people." As you are learning, though, it really doesn't work for most people, and the staff will routinely admit it. After you pay them, that is, but never before. They want an "out" for when people fail ("they didn't want it enough"), but they are astute enough to know that if they told people and their families the truth prior to getting their money, they wouldn't get very many clients.
I call treatment giving a person a shot to help themselves.
Personal responsibility over blaming or holding others accountable for my decisions is my view and way I stay sober today.
AG
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Originally Posted by AlwaysGrowing
Personal responsibility over blaming or holding others accountable for my decisions is my view and way I stay sober today.
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Originally Posted by AlwaysGrowing
It works for most people who do the work, turn their life over. Most don't do that.
You can get the same thing that you would get at most $30,000 rehab joints by reading "Under the Influence" by James Milam, the "Big Book" of AA, and going to some meetings. Total cost: $16.
If you want the "rehab video" experience, you can find Father Martin's "Chalk Talk on Alcoholism" online for free and his lessons on his YouTube channel.
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Originally Posted by AVRT
Gotta agree with CarolD here - (I know, rare!) - that "look to your left, look to your right" stuff always made me say some things that I won't repeat.
There is no need to spread more hopelessness.
There is no need to spread more hopelessness.
I have never heard that look to the right and look to the right saying before, it is rather daunting, and does seem to spread a feeling of hopelessness/helplessness. I like to look towards the strengths of the people to my right and left, not so some as of yet unseen proclivity for relapse...to assume this seems to really be assuming quite a lot, especially considering people are encouraged not to be too egotistical. I mean, how much farther can one go that to look around and think, "Hey, most of these people are gonna wipe out and fail! I just know it!" Maybe some will relapse, but I don't have a crystal ball that reads hearts and minds. Nonetheless, this tenancy among certain people/groups to dwell on the negative is something I take a measured approach to; it is useful to an extent, but fear can also inhibit love, and hamper growth; it is something that is a warning light, but also something that I believe is not a healthy state to constantly dredge up and remain in.
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Originally Posted by AVRT
This is probably true, but most people who go to "treatment" think that they are going to be treated, not that they need to turn their life over. Rarely, if ever, are they told that "treatment" is little more than a very expensive introduction to AA prior to signing that intake contract.
You can get the same thing that you would get at most $30,000 rehab joints by reading "Under the Influence" by James Milam, the "Big Book" of AA, and going to some meetings. Total cost: $16.
If you want the "rehab video" experience, you can find Father Martin's "Chalk Talk on Alcoholism" online for free and his lessons on his YouTube channel.
You can get the same thing that you would get at most $30,000 rehab joints by reading "Under the Influence" by James Milam, the "Big Book" of AA, and going to some meetings. Total cost: $16.
If you want the "rehab video" experience, you can find Father Martin's "Chalk Talk on Alcoholism" online for free and his lessons on his YouTube channel.
Faith without works is dead,, so the saying goes.
AG
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