What would you do
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: oklahoma city,oklahoma
Posts: 30
What would you do
I've been sober since 11/15/2010. I did not go to a single AA meeting in all of 2010. I have been a member off and on since 01 or 02 I'd have to go dig my big book out of the closet to know the exact date.
My problem is I'm not an atheist but I have alot of problems with organized religion so step 2 is a little hard for me to understand.
My other problem is step 5. I've done several of them and told my whole story I didn't leave anything behind.
But still ended up drunk.
Is it possible to be a member and not follow all of the steps to a T. such as needing a sponser,what if you just talked with several people that you liked in the program,does somebody have to be designated as a sponser.
5th step.been there done that several times why do I have to do it all over again because I got drunk afterwards.
Organised religion and AA remind me of each other in certain aspects and I don't like to feel that way about AA.
My problem is I'm not an atheist but I have alot of problems with organized religion so step 2 is a little hard for me to understand.
My other problem is step 5. I've done several of them and told my whole story I didn't leave anything behind.
But still ended up drunk.
Is it possible to be a member and not follow all of the steps to a T. such as needing a sponser,what if you just talked with several people that you liked in the program,does somebody have to be designated as a sponser.
5th step.been there done that several times why do I have to do it all over again because I got drunk afterwards.
Organised religion and AA remind me of each other in certain aspects and I don't like to feel that way about AA.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal CA
Posts: 1,319
Do what you are comfrontable with. You have been sober since 11/15, so you have been doing something right. Do you feel you need more support? You can use this site in place of AA, it works well for many people, and gives you the sense of belonging in a group who understand and will listen to your issues.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,326
navyvet,
Have you looked into other programs? Like SMART? If you're interested I'm sure some one can post the links for you. I used Rational Recovery and a bit of AA too.
You can get and stay sober. It's possible. And you can be happy and joyous too!
Love,
Lenina
Have you looked into other programs? Like SMART? If you're interested I'm sure some one can post the links for you. I used Rational Recovery and a bit of AA too.
You can get and stay sober. It's possible. And you can be happy and joyous too!
Love,
Lenina
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
I too struggled with the God thing of AA.
I had no use for organized religion when I finally got to the end of the road for me which was AA. It was really a struggle for me until I realized that all I had to do was believe that there was a power greater than myself. What worked for me was to accept that fact that electricity is a power greater than myself. It can kill me, I can not control it although it can be harnessed to make my life better. Using that basic concept I came to believe that since the world works on an electrical/energy basis that I could harness that energy to make my life better by calling it my higher power since it is a power greater than myself. I had to skip the prayer thing and just trust in the process of the steps. I did them to the best of my ability, which it sounds like you have tried to do. In March I will have 10 years sober. What started as a basic concept of a higher power has evolved and changed over the years. I still don't do the religion thing though as I don't find it to be something that I can believe in and trust. There is a difference between spirituality and religion. I have heard it described as religion is man made and spirituality is God made (or Higher Power made).
I don't know if any of this makes any sense but I do hope you find something useful in my ramblings.
There are also many other programs out there that many people have had success with. There is a list of those programs in the stickies at the top of the threads in the forum. It might be well worth giving one of them a try.
I had no use for organized religion when I finally got to the end of the road for me which was AA. It was really a struggle for me until I realized that all I had to do was believe that there was a power greater than myself. What worked for me was to accept that fact that electricity is a power greater than myself. It can kill me, I can not control it although it can be harnessed to make my life better. Using that basic concept I came to believe that since the world works on an electrical/energy basis that I could harness that energy to make my life better by calling it my higher power since it is a power greater than myself. I had to skip the prayer thing and just trust in the process of the steps. I did them to the best of my ability, which it sounds like you have tried to do. In March I will have 10 years sober. What started as a basic concept of a higher power has evolved and changed over the years. I still don't do the religion thing though as I don't find it to be something that I can believe in and trust. There is a difference between spirituality and religion. I have heard it described as religion is man made and spirituality is God made (or Higher Power made).
I don't know if any of this makes any sense but I do hope you find something useful in my ramblings.
There are also many other programs out there that many people have had success with. There is a list of those programs in the stickies at the top of the threads in the forum. It might be well worth giving one of them a try.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: KC MO
Posts: 980
Well I would say being around sober people is a good start. Being around sober people that have also just quit drinking is even better. I'm not going to tell you to go to AA and not work the program. But if you are saying that the "program"is driving you away,well. I believe you are better off still going. Maybe you should try to find another group if possible.
I wen't to AA 3 different stretches. All 3 times I only got to step 4. But the last time,I made it. I believe I quit for good. I didn't exactly work the program,but I tried. I never had a "actual" sponsor either. But last time, I did go twice a week for 9 months.
All you need to be a member of AA is a desire to stop drinking. I kind of wen't with the saying take what you need and leave the rest. I don't think there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. I think there are people who really tried to work all the steps and still failed,and people that did not work the steps that made it. You need to want to stop more than you want to drink.
But like I say, I believe being around sober people that have the same goal in mind is important. Some of it is bound to rub off on you.
Fred
I wen't to AA 3 different stretches. All 3 times I only got to step 4. But the last time,I made it. I believe I quit for good. I didn't exactly work the program,but I tried. I never had a "actual" sponsor either. But last time, I did go twice a week for 9 months.
All you need to be a member of AA is a desire to stop drinking. I kind of wen't with the saying take what you need and leave the rest. I don't think there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. I think there are people who really tried to work all the steps and still failed,and people that did not work the steps that made it. You need to want to stop more than you want to drink.
But like I say, I believe being around sober people that have the same goal in mind is important. Some of it is bound to rub off on you.
Fred
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 432
I've been sober 19 months and I don't really have a formal sponsor. Thought I don't really belong to any organized denomination, I'm a fairly committed believer so I'm not sure how to advise you there.
One thing you kind of leave out is the circumstances around the times you relapsed. Was there some trigger that led you to it? Some event or way of thinking that made you want to feel different?
You seem pretty concerned about following the letter of the steps, just trying to understand if you're as concerned about the spirit of the steps, i.e. really getting down to brass tacks on the problems.
One thing you kind of leave out is the circumstances around the times you relapsed. Was there some trigger that led you to it? Some event or way of thinking that made you want to feel different?
You seem pretty concerned about following the letter of the steps, just trying to understand if you're as concerned about the spirit of the steps, i.e. really getting down to brass tacks on the problems.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Trenches, Texas
Posts: 778
AA has nothing to do with religion, nothing to do with issues, what it does have to do with is a connection with an absolute power...call that power whatever you want. It might be best to find a sponsor, then start on pg. 1 of the basic text and do everything it asks you to do with this sponsor until you get to page 164. If that doesn't work please let me know and we can take the program's inventory together.
On a side note, when you relapsed what were you doing with the strict disciplines of 10, 11, and 12?
On a side note, when you relapsed what were you doing with the strict disciplines of 10, 11, and 12?
Another Day in Paradise
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 900
AA as I have always known it is a fellowship (i.e. a group of "fellows") as in fellowship, camaraderie. There is a spiritual component, certainly not religious by design although some do interject their particular beliefs but that practice is not condoned in the meetings that I attend. While some will make reference to Christ, it is not a Christian fellowship.
The concept of a power greater than oneself was never hard for me, particularly when I came in some years back. I was living a life that was out of MY control so virtually anyone acting with purpose was a "power greater than me" and the fellows of AA who were sober and acting with goals and purpose to their lives became something I leaned on as I tried to get sober.
The 4TH step was where I found my freedom, the 5TH was simply where I shared what I discovered about myself as I searched and wrote.
My point to this diatribe is that after 11 plus years of sober living, I still don't practice any religion, I respect those that do, but my concept of a creative intelligence is no more or less that the belief in the strength and wisdom of all souls here and not here. That is just mine, I don't try and convince anyone else and surely am not offended when someone asks me and then tells me I am wrong. Who knows I may be, but I know I am sober, happy, healthy and awfully thankful for AA.
Just my experience and I wish you the best. It is more fun with other folks than by yourself!!
Jon
The concept of a power greater than oneself was never hard for me, particularly when I came in some years back. I was living a life that was out of MY control so virtually anyone acting with purpose was a "power greater than me" and the fellows of AA who were sober and acting with goals and purpose to their lives became something I leaned on as I tried to get sober.
The 4TH step was where I found my freedom, the 5TH was simply where I shared what I discovered about myself as I searched and wrote.
My point to this diatribe is that after 11 plus years of sober living, I still don't practice any religion, I respect those that do, but my concept of a creative intelligence is no more or less that the belief in the strength and wisdom of all souls here and not here. That is just mine, I don't try and convince anyone else and surely am not offended when someone asks me and then tells me I am wrong. Who knows I may be, but I know I am sober, happy, healthy and awfully thankful for AA.
Just my experience and I wish you the best. It is more fun with other folks than by yourself!!
Jon
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
I think I am a bit like you...I have a deep faith in God and a relationship with him (this predates sobriety and drinking) but religion makes me uncomfortable...I'm not good with dogma.
I have used SR for support and have a life coach to well, work on my life
I would suggest exploring alternatives like SMART, SR, RR or whatever combination of letters looks good to you
I have used SR for support and have a life coach to well, work on my life
I would suggest exploring alternatives like SMART, SR, RR or whatever combination of letters looks good to you
High on Life
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Been to Hell and Back
Posts: 1,157
I can understand where you are coming from, because I have a problem myself. I love going to meetings, have a sponsor, read the big book and all that good stuff. I'm working the steps now and I'm on step 4 and I'm just like questioning the necessity of this step. I know people that say if you don't work step 4 and 5 you will end up drinking, but what about those people that did step 4 and 5 and ended up drinking.
Then someone will say that they didn't work it completely or whatever, but what about the people that never worked a step and remain sober. I don't know, maybe it's just me. I'm going to work my steps and at least give it the old college try, but I have my skepticism.
Then someone will say that they didn't work it completely or whatever, but what about the people that never worked a step and remain sober. I don't know, maybe it's just me. I'm going to work my steps and at least give it the old college try, but I have my skepticism.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 395
Its really up to you. I heard that OKC tends to be on the religious side, but it is probably a large enough city where you could find a group or two that you feel comfortable with. Spread your wings and test some waters. Give meetings a few chances before you start forming an opinion.
I tried a new meeting out in a new city. The first three meetings were about God and I was getting sick of it. I don't mind the God thing, but I like meetings were discussion is more palpable. God is not that palpable to me. However, I decided to give this meeting one more shot and I heard the most powerful speaker in my history of AA. The way he shared floored me. It was so frickin' brutally honest and to the point. I was in a state of amazement for a couple of days.
As for step 2, I believe that there is a process that restores us to sanity. Barring any other mental and behavioral disorders, I believe that the power lies within. I believe that we all have the capacity to turn our life around to a much healthier state.
Sanity means "healthy condition" with an emphasis on soundness of mind. It is about taking action and thinking healthier thoughts, feeling healthier emotions, and taking good care of your body. The way alcoholics use alcohol, it certainly does take a toll on your thoughts, emotion, and body.
As for step 5, it is a step that helps with being restored to sanity. Step 4 is nothing, but a timeless philosophy of self-examination and step 5 is apart of that process.
Doing the steps is no guarantee. I think sometimes people in AA put too much emphasis on this and when people relapse, it makes them feel like even more of a failure. Overall, I think they are beneficial, but I have seen too many people do the steps and drink again. There is no miracle cure for alcoholism and there are different paths to sobriety. Nonetheless, sobriety can be accomplished, even by the most hopeless of alcoholics. Even though I am not a believer, I truly have witnessed some miracles in the rooms of AA.
I find AA very beneficial. Not perfect, but beneficial in my sobriety. I particularly cherish the fellowship. It is so much easier doing this with others.
Again, it is up to you. Give it another chance or try something else. There are not SMART meetings in OKC, but they have them online. I never took one, but I have found many of their readings extremely helpful and knowledgeable.
SMART RecoveryŽ - OnLine Meetings Schedule
I tried a new meeting out in a new city. The first three meetings were about God and I was getting sick of it. I don't mind the God thing, but I like meetings were discussion is more palpable. God is not that palpable to me. However, I decided to give this meeting one more shot and I heard the most powerful speaker in my history of AA. The way he shared floored me. It was so frickin' brutally honest and to the point. I was in a state of amazement for a couple of days.
As for step 2, I believe that there is a process that restores us to sanity. Barring any other mental and behavioral disorders, I believe that the power lies within. I believe that we all have the capacity to turn our life around to a much healthier state.
Sanity means "healthy condition" with an emphasis on soundness of mind. It is about taking action and thinking healthier thoughts, feeling healthier emotions, and taking good care of your body. The way alcoholics use alcohol, it certainly does take a toll on your thoughts, emotion, and body.
As for step 5, it is a step that helps with being restored to sanity. Step 4 is nothing, but a timeless philosophy of self-examination and step 5 is apart of that process.
Doing the steps is no guarantee. I think sometimes people in AA put too much emphasis on this and when people relapse, it makes them feel like even more of a failure. Overall, I think they are beneficial, but I have seen too many people do the steps and drink again. There is no miracle cure for alcoholism and there are different paths to sobriety. Nonetheless, sobriety can be accomplished, even by the most hopeless of alcoholics. Even though I am not a believer, I truly have witnessed some miracles in the rooms of AA.
I find AA very beneficial. Not perfect, but beneficial in my sobriety. I particularly cherish the fellowship. It is so much easier doing this with others.
Again, it is up to you. Give it another chance or try something else. There are not SMART meetings in OKC, but they have them online. I never took one, but I have found many of their readings extremely helpful and knowledgeable.
SMART RecoveryŽ - OnLine Meetings Schedule
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by navyvet 
My other problem is step 5. I've done several of them and told my whole story I didn't leave anything behind.
But still ended up drunk.
But still ended up drunk.
Cafeteria style, take what you want, pick and choose Step work may provide benefit to some. And like the early AA members, some of us had to work the whole deal and keep living that life in order to recover.
You've figured out that you can't get by on half-measures. That's a good thing to know. Next move is up to you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: oklahoma city,oklahoma
Posts: 30
Thanks for the replies. Yes OKC is very heavy on the religous side.
I've been to alot of different mtgs. and there is god talk in all of them.
Also in other places do the mtgs. always end with everybody standing up and holding hands in a circle and reciting the lord's prayer?
Never been a big fan of hugging every single person I come into contact with either.
I hate for this to sound like a rant against AA because to me it's not.
I don't hate AA just don't care for certain things and yes I'm going to include SR as part of my recovery I can't believe I've never heard of this place before.
I've been to alot of different mtgs. and there is god talk in all of them.
Also in other places do the mtgs. always end with everybody standing up and holding hands in a circle and reciting the lord's prayer?
Never been a big fan of hugging every single person I come into contact with either.
I hate for this to sound like a rant against AA because to me it's not.
I don't hate AA just don't care for certain things and yes I'm going to include SR as part of my recovery I can't believe I've never heard of this place before.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Living in Today!
Posts: 3,945
Originally Posted by navyvet
I've been sober since 11/15/2010. I did not go to a single AA meeting in all of 2010. I have been a member off and on since 01 or 02 I'd have to go dig my big book out of the closet to know the exact date.
My problem is I'm not an atheist but I have alot of problems with organized religion so step 2 is a little hard for me to understand.
My other problem is step 5. I've done several of them and told my whole story I didn't leave anything behind.
But still ended up drunk.
Is it possible to be a member and not follow all of the steps to a T. such as needing a sponser,what if you just talked with several people that you liked in the program,does somebody have to be designated as a sponser.
5th step.been there done that several times why do I have to do it all over again because I got drunk afterwards.
Organised religion and AA remind me of each other in certain aspects and I don't like to feel that way about AA.
My problem is I'm not an atheist but I have alot of problems with organized religion so step 2 is a little hard for me to understand.
My other problem is step 5. I've done several of them and told my whole story I didn't leave anything behind.
But still ended up drunk.
Is it possible to be a member and not follow all of the steps to a T. such as needing a sponser,what if you just talked with several people that you liked in the program,does somebody have to be designated as a sponser.
5th step.been there done that several times why do I have to do it all over again because I got drunk afterwards.
Organised religion and AA remind me of each other in certain aspects and I don't like to feel that way about AA.
A.A. is worked by individuals in many different ways.. even though some Hard Line Big Book Thumpers will Say otherwise..
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: oklahoma city,oklahoma
Posts: 30
Thanks Keith but it's stories just like that, that turn me off of AA.
I don't need somebody to tell me anything step related before or after the 5th step was not done good enough for me when I know it was.
There were no half-measures taken on my part.
I don't need somebody to tell me anything step related before or after the 5th step was not done good enough for me when I know it was.
There were no half-measures taken on my part.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
I understand what you are saying, navyvet. None of us knows what we don't know, and I've heard your same response from dozens of guys. It's worth taking a chance that I'll offend you. Because all of those dozens of guys, after they have surrendered and worked the Steps by the directions out of the BB, have looked back and realized how much they were missing when they finally did this thing.
Your above post indicates that you haven't even accepted Step 2 if all the 'God stuff' bothers you. I know. I came into AA as a staunch atheist, so I get it. But if you haven't accepted that AA is a God program, you sure haven't done a thorough job on the Steps.
And that's not a criticism. We can't hear it until we can hear it.
Originally Posted by navyvet
There were no half-measures taken on my part.
And that's not a criticism. We can't hear it until we can hear it.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Navy.......
If you're asking "can I go to aa meetings and not work the program of AA?" then sure.....you can. Plenty do just that. I guess I don't know what you mean by "is it possible to be a member and not work the steps to a T." Can you? sure. Will it work? Absolutely not if you're the type of alcoholic AA is designed for. The entire program centers around being powerless over alcohol and needing to find a power greater than yourself because this type of alcoholic lacks the necessary power to stay sober and life a happy fulfilling life.
It's kinda like saying, "Can I be on the team but not play the same game/sport?" In AA, we say sure.......problem with booze.......want to quit.......yer on the team. Want to be on the team and play another sport the whole time, that's up to you.
Let's pretend AA is a football team. We play with this ball, against that team, on this field, by running and passing this way......to score touchdowns. You wanna be on our football team and spend your time shooting baskets while we're scoring touchdowns....... that's your prerogative. If you want to not practice, not run, not pass, not score touchdowns.... but put on the uniform and watch the game.......that's your prerogative too.
Will you be happy playing by your rules???......that's the question - and only you can answer it.
They wrote specifically about this type of thinking in chapter 5 "How it Works." For the real alcoholic, nothing BUT a power greater than themselves (the touchdowns, in my example above) can get them sober and keep them happy. They need the touchdown or they drink.....and/or they're miserable even though they're not drinking....... or they're just not truly happy and don't realize it....yet. Maybe that won't be your experience.
Maybe you can say yer on the team, play a different sport, and you'll stay sober and live a wonderful life. Why someone who's off shooting baskets would want to say they're on a football team.......and attend football team meetings........is beyond me, but a lot of ppl sure do just that. Evidently that works for them (or it doesn't....and they're not happy......and they drink again.....or they stay dry and miserable.....until they become willing to let go of all their old ideas absolutely).
If you're asking "can I go to aa meetings and not work the program of AA?" then sure.....you can. Plenty do just that. I guess I don't know what you mean by "is it possible to be a member and not work the steps to a T." Can you? sure. Will it work? Absolutely not if you're the type of alcoholic AA is designed for. The entire program centers around being powerless over alcohol and needing to find a power greater than yourself because this type of alcoholic lacks the necessary power to stay sober and life a happy fulfilling life.
It's kinda like saying, "Can I be on the team but not play the same game/sport?" In AA, we say sure.......problem with booze.......want to quit.......yer on the team. Want to be on the team and play another sport the whole time, that's up to you.
Let's pretend AA is a football team. We play with this ball, against that team, on this field, by running and passing this way......to score touchdowns. You wanna be on our football team and spend your time shooting baskets while we're scoring touchdowns....... that's your prerogative. If you want to not practice, not run, not pass, not score touchdowns.... but put on the uniform and watch the game.......that's your prerogative too.
Will you be happy playing by your rules???......that's the question - and only you can answer it.
They wrote specifically about this type of thinking in chapter 5 "How it Works." For the real alcoholic, nothing BUT a power greater than themselves (the touchdowns, in my example above) can get them sober and keep them happy. They need the touchdown or they drink.....and/or they're miserable even though they're not drinking....... or they're just not truly happy and don't realize it....yet. Maybe that won't be your experience.
Maybe you can say yer on the team, play a different sport, and you'll stay sober and live a wonderful life. Why someone who's off shooting baskets would want to say they're on a football team.......and attend football team meetings........is beyond me, but a lot of ppl sure do just that. Evidently that works for them (or it doesn't....and they're not happy......and they drink again.....or they stay dry and miserable.....until they become willing to let go of all their old ideas absolutely).
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 160
Navyvet,
AA is what I call a "system" - a methodology to accomplish some goal. There are systems for just about anything and everything like: time management, negotiating, selling, physical fitness, quitting smoking / drinking, etc., etc.
Take what YOU find useful and can implement from the systems that interest you most. In the end, you'll have a customized solution that fits you individually and undoubtedly, you'll be successful.
Good Luck!
AA is what I call a "system" - a methodology to accomplish some goal. There are systems for just about anything and everything like: time management, negotiating, selling, physical fitness, quitting smoking / drinking, etc., etc.
Take what YOU find useful and can implement from the systems that interest you most. In the end, you'll have a customized solution that fits you individually and undoubtedly, you'll be successful.
Good Luck!
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by 24hrsAday
the Only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.
A.A. is worked by individuals in many different ways.. even though some Hard Line Big Book Thumpers will Say otherwise..
A.A. is worked by individuals in many different ways.. even though some Hard Line Big Book Thumpers will Say otherwise..
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