NA vs AA
High on Life
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Been to Hell and Back
Posts: 1,157
Originally Posted by Spirit08 
Drugs do what they're supposed to do and are an entirely different animal. Drugs are OBVIOUSLY addictive and there are NORMIES out there who can drink alcohol SAFELY. Who smokes crack safely? Takes herion safely? That's just stupidity IMO.OF IT.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 144
I have learned some VERY important lessons about the differences between AA and NA from this thread (and from attending meetings).
1. The only requirement of AA is the desire not to drink. Period.
2. The "rule" read in every AA meeting I have attended is to limit the discussion to one's experiences as they relate to alcohol. Expect to be reminded of the focus of the AA meeting if you share without relating it to alcohol.
3. There will always be debate about how people interpret the program and the semantics of disease, addiction, and so forth.
4. In AA, you will find some members who will consider themselves AA "purists" who are very vocal about their particular interpretation of the Big Book and the philosophy of AA. These members may feel it their duty to draw a sharp distinction between the despair of the alcoholic and the "other" addict. These "purists" may go so far as to publicly shame addicts and attempt to exclude the addict's spirituality by calling them "twinkies" (or other such derogatory terms).
In short, you will find all kinds of people in AA and NA, but the promises of following the 12 steps stand as the guiding forces of both groups.
1. The only requirement of AA is the desire not to drink. Period.
2. The "rule" read in every AA meeting I have attended is to limit the discussion to one's experiences as they relate to alcohol. Expect to be reminded of the focus of the AA meeting if you share without relating it to alcohol.
3. There will always be debate about how people interpret the program and the semantics of disease, addiction, and so forth.
4. In AA, you will find some members who will consider themselves AA "purists" who are very vocal about their particular interpretation of the Big Book and the philosophy of AA. These members may feel it their duty to draw a sharp distinction between the despair of the alcoholic and the "other" addict. These "purists" may go so far as to publicly shame addicts and attempt to exclude the addict's spirituality by calling them "twinkies" (or other such derogatory terms).
In short, you will find all kinds of people in AA and NA, but the promises of following the 12 steps stand as the guiding forces of both groups.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by Ninsuna
I feel like they're cooler than me.
Which is why I am happier in AA, it's much harder to get into p1ssing contests... and shares are supposed to be about the solution anyway.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,064
These sorts of issues about who's sicker, who's more illegal who's more addicted is a turn off to me. It's a reason I attend both types of 12 step meetings with an ear to strain the chaff from the wheat. There is so much ignorance, intolerance, judgments about addiction/alcoholism out there, more will be revealed. Drugs and alcohol will both kill you.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: WI
Posts: 228
Most people don't care, though some let their egos run wild and decide to take it upon themselves to question others' motives for attending AA. Generally they spew their ignorant opinions about drugs v alcohol and how they are such completely different entities. Seems these people still crave the ability to say they are different from the rest of the group.
My experience has been that whatever the substance, I use it alcoholically. I have lost all power, choice, or control over drink and drugs. Doesn't matter what or how I take it, the phenomenon of craving sets in.
Regardless, it is a symptom of the same disease with the same solution.
With that said, when I share in AA meetings or give a talk, I tend to speak very vaguely focusing more on the loss of control when speaking about my use. I do this for two reasons:
1.) It doesn't matter what the substance is, its still a manifestation of my alcoholism. Much like in sobriety this has manifested itself in gambling, sex, etc.
2.) I remember being new and almost looking for ways to differentiate myself from everyone else-I wasn't that bad, I didn't do that, That didn't happen to me, etc. So, now I try to identify with the group by exposing that common thread that binds us all together-the powerlessness and need for a spiritual solution that will remove the problem from me.
For me, to say I am strictly an alcoholic is not only a lie, but also excuses a lot of sick behavior that I had done in the past-leaving the meeting and getting high on other things, thinking that putting down the drink was all it took, etc. My experience has been that I had to admit defeat, that I was powerless over so many things besides alcohol-my defects, my resentments, my emotions, my selfishness, etc. Only by doing this and letting God into my whole life, not just my drinking, am I continuing to be relieved of my alcoholism.
So, is there a difference between the two fellowships.... sure. Is there a difference between the spiritual solutions that are offered, not really. The only caveat to that is that I have met people who considered themselves "pure" drug addicts and thus non-alcoholic... funny... I saw them years later in AA meetings after they learned that they were indeed alcoholic, so yes, I agree with the third tradition, if you have no desire to quit drinking then AA probably isn't the place for you (yet). I have also seen, and lived, the opposite where people thought that simply not drinking was enough... sadly they had to find that new bottom where they desperate enough to surrender entirely to the disease and all its manifestations.
My experience has been that whatever the substance, I use it alcoholically. I have lost all power, choice, or control over drink and drugs. Doesn't matter what or how I take it, the phenomenon of craving sets in.
Regardless, it is a symptom of the same disease with the same solution.
With that said, when I share in AA meetings or give a talk, I tend to speak very vaguely focusing more on the loss of control when speaking about my use. I do this for two reasons:
1.) It doesn't matter what the substance is, its still a manifestation of my alcoholism. Much like in sobriety this has manifested itself in gambling, sex, etc.
2.) I remember being new and almost looking for ways to differentiate myself from everyone else-I wasn't that bad, I didn't do that, That didn't happen to me, etc. So, now I try to identify with the group by exposing that common thread that binds us all together-the powerlessness and need for a spiritual solution that will remove the problem from me.
For me, to say I am strictly an alcoholic is not only a lie, but also excuses a lot of sick behavior that I had done in the past-leaving the meeting and getting high on other things, thinking that putting down the drink was all it took, etc. My experience has been that I had to admit defeat, that I was powerless over so many things besides alcohol-my defects, my resentments, my emotions, my selfishness, etc. Only by doing this and letting God into my whole life, not just my drinking, am I continuing to be relieved of my alcoholism.
So, is there a difference between the two fellowships.... sure. Is there a difference between the spiritual solutions that are offered, not really. The only caveat to that is that I have met people who considered themselves "pure" drug addicts and thus non-alcoholic... funny... I saw them years later in AA meetings after they learned that they were indeed alcoholic, so yes, I agree with the third tradition, if you have no desire to quit drinking then AA probably isn't the place for you (yet). I have also seen, and lived, the opposite where people thought that simply not drinking was enough... sadly they had to find that new bottom where they desperate enough to surrender entirely to the disease and all its manifestations.
AAudrey
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 209
Why so many open ended judgments on the matter? Actually, no one can ask that drugs not be mentioned. Therein lies the problem. It's simply the same as not wanting to hear about one's mother's drinking. We have another fellowship for that! That's it. They're not the same.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Middle of MO
Posts: 666
I don't believe it matters which one (or both) you attend....just so you go! The folks who are successful in recovery *without* meetings are in a minority and, personally, I need all the help I can get.
"The ones who make it, make meetings!"
"The ones who make it, make meetings!"
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: WI
Posts: 228
Originally Posted by Spirit08
Why so many open ended judgments on the matter? Actually, no one can ask that drugs not be mentioned. Therein lies the problem. It's simply the same as not wanting to hear about one's mother's drinking. We have another fellowship for that! That's it. They're not the same.
And I don't think anyone is judging, just pointing out the fallacy that lies in the argument that the alcoholic and addict are different from one another. Or that someone with a desire to stop drinking is "hijacking" MY meeting (seems kinda selfish too).
AAudrey
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 209
Singleness of Purpose
You're right. It is selfish. Selfish when one ignores our singleness of purpose, all of the traditions and concepts.
I'm not guilty by association either. So, we have assumptions at meetings and here too.
In North Carolina, after the AA meeting, there's an NA meeting. IN Norwalk, people walk through the graveyard to get from one to the other.
SINGLENESS OF PURPOSE.
It's okay if you don't agree with me, REALLY. Keep in mind, however, AA is not all-inclusive and we are no longer united.
Without UNITY, we will surely die.
Tradition 4 talks about being all inclusive. I sit back and wait for the Sponsors to educate the newcomers and b**ch to my sponsor about it. That' all.
This is an alcoholism forum.
I'm not guilty by association either. So, we have assumptions at meetings and here too.
In North Carolina, after the AA meeting, there's an NA meeting. IN Norwalk, people walk through the graveyard to get from one to the other.
SINGLENESS OF PURPOSE.
It's okay if you don't agree with me, REALLY. Keep in mind, however, AA is not all-inclusive and we are no longer united.
Without UNITY, we will surely die.
Tradition 4 talks about being all inclusive. I sit back and wait for the Sponsors to educate the newcomers and b**ch to my sponsor about it. That' all.
This is an alcoholism forum.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: WI
Posts: 228
You're not really enforcing the singleness of purpose though.... The way you spoke made it sound as if you are saying that alcoholics should not be talking about drugs at all. As if they are two separate entities. I agree that supposed non-alcoholics who are only trying to stay off of drugs should find another fellowship, but to try to exclude real alcoholics because they also used drugs is misinformed.
If I misunderstood you, then I apologize.
If I misunderstood you, then I apologize.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,064
I think the reason AA has seemed to change or maybe it hasn't but back in 1935 alcohol was more around and has been more around than drugs. With all the new designer drugs and prescription addicts that are exploding, it's hard to find just a pure alcoholic. Not to generalize though because I hate generalizations. I have just seen more people addicted to both alcohol and drugs than just alcohol and many many places don't have an NA meeting. So the only game is AA. I agree that keeping the discussion in meetings to just alcohol is great but so many bring in discussions about psych disorders and and all the reasons as to why people with mental illness turn to alcohol and drugs. It's all mixed up. If we were truly well people we would never need a step meeting. I think it's great that some of you are passionate about your meeting but to boil out a resentment over it seems unhealthy and it seems intolerant, and it is all a journey, we are all getting better with time, what seems intolerant now will with continued work will become compassion for others.
AAudrey
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 209
Thanks. It's okay. It's a problem here everyday, I'm used to it. I need a pass too. I help everyone, anytime, anywhere no matter what the problem. However, I am really only equipped to help a fellow alcoholic because I cannot understand PROBLEMS OTHER THAN ALCOHOL. Teenagers, I can help too. I have a 19 year old daughter. I was 19 once too. haha And I was a crazy 19-year-old at that!
My sponsor always tells me, forgive them for what they do not know. Haven't been in such a forgiving mood lately. Posted under ACOA about that. It's a tough road we trudge.
Hugs all around,
My sponsor always tells me, forgive them for what they do not know. Haven't been in such a forgiving mood lately. Posted under ACOA about that. It's a tough road we trudge.
Hugs all around,
AAudrey
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by tsmba
I think the core issue is this: wtf is alcohol, but a drug? Thinking of alcohol as some sort of outlier, a "different" drug (somehow), makes no sense.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 218
Alcohol is a drug. It is in the form of a beverage, just like cough syrup with codeine is a drug in the form of a beverage.
I think this thread has gone way off course.
I respect the AA purists and all, but the primary purpose is NOT to make sure that you protect AA from being hijacked by whomever you are concerned is hijacking it. The primary purpose is to stay sober and help others to acheive sobriety. If those others happen to also smoke crack....so be it.
I think this thread has gone way off course.
I respect the AA purists and all, but the primary purpose is NOT to make sure that you protect AA from being hijacked by whomever you are concerned is hijacking it. The primary purpose is to stay sober and help others to acheive sobriety. If those others happen to also smoke crack....so be it.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Ethanol, also called ethyl alcohol, pure alcohol, grain alcohol, or drinking alcohol, is a volatile, flammable, colorless liquid. It is a powerful psychoactive drug and one of the oldest recreational drugs. It is best known as the type of alcohol found in alcoholic beverages and thermometers. In common usage, it is often referred to simply as alcohol or spirits. -- Wiki
I'm an alcoholic drug addict, and what wiki says above speaks volumes for me. Been there and done that, has been my experience. Alcohol is a drug, and when prepared for human consumption, is served as a beverage ie -- a drink.
Keep it simple, folks.
Rob
I'm an alcoholic drug addict, and what wiki says above speaks volumes for me. Been there and done that, has been my experience. Alcohol is a drug, and when prepared for human consumption, is served as a beverage ie -- a drink.
Keep it simple, folks.
Rob
for sharing here.....it's now closed.
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