LaFemme

So recovery is a change in the way you think and sobriety is a change in the way you drink:-)

You can change the way you think in many different ways, I don't think any program has a monopoly on recovery.

DayTrader

Not for the type of alcoholic described in the AA big book - the type of alcoholic whose ONLY solution comes from a power greater than themselves. For this sort of alcoholic, getting abstinent and staying abstinent is an impossibility.

For a heavy drinker though, abstinence should be achievable and should work just fine.

JosetteCollins

the 12 steps of AA are not to obtain abstinence. Abstinence is just the beginning...the 12 steps are to connect you to a power greater than yourself to relieve you of the spiritual malady that drives you to drink

RobertHugh, I don't think you understood my post. My point was that the recovery principles of the 12 steps of AA can be found in Christianity and some other faith traditions, and are not unique to AA. Also, there are many different paths to recovery, and people shouldn't judge each other because the paths differ.

LaFemme

Thanks JC!!!

RobertHugh

I understood your post. I was reacting to your comment that "People may need...12 step programs to attain abstinence." I think it's important that people understand the 12 steps are about much more than just not drinking.

I agree completely that the AA program has its roots in Christianity and other religions, and that we shouldn't judge other recovery paths.

I never hear anyone talk specifically about "other recovery paths" though. I've learned that AA is a very specific program of recovery-- and we should be clear about what that is when we talk about it. What are the other recovery paths?

Mat

Some might find their way in more secular groups like SMART or SOS. Some people use their own particular religion or belief system that has nothing to do with recovery per se, but leads them to recovery all the same. Some people see doctors and therapists. Some people make up their own system or support network. Some alcoholics(I have met at least one like this) get a big health scare, quit drinking, and realize life without alcohol is better than they remember.

The possibilities are virtually endless.

AA is definitely the loudest and most popular recovery avenue. That is why you hear so much about it and not the other alternatives. The efficacy of all the major programs are nearly statistically identical, it all comes down to what will work for what individual.

RobertHugh

Thanks Mat. If I google SMART or SOS, I suspect I'll find something. More or less just curious.

LaFemme

I agree with Mat, the possibilities are endless. For me, I've never learned in a straight forward, linear fashion, so my approach to recovery is uniquely my own. Just because I don't follow a program doesn't mean I don't work on myself (I hope that even without the alcohol problem I would still work on myself:-).

I incorporate things I read about here in SR and peoples experiences, both good and bad. I work with a coach on non-alcohol related problems. I meditate (still working on that), practice gratitude, think positive, have nice long conversations with God, paint, watch Matt Damon movies, play with my dogs and a million other things, all make up my recovery program:-)

There are an infinite number of steps in my program.

RobertHugh

I've actually been trying to figure out ways to work Matt Damon into the steps.

Came to believe that Matt Damon could restore me to sanity?

Admitted to God, Matt Damon and another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

Made direct amends to such people whenever possible, except when to do so would injure Matt Damon or others.

LaFemme

:rotfxko:rotfxko:rotfxko


Maybe Matt Damon is my HP;-) feel free to substitute angelina jolie for yourself, but I would avoid Lindsay Lohan!

JosetteCollins

RobertHugh, not everybody believes in God or even a higher power, and not everyone defines spirituality the same way. For some people, healing takes place in watching Matt Damon movies, planting flowers in a garden, jogging several miles a day, being with their families, or playing with their pets.
My personal recovery consists of attending church and receiving the sacraments, playing my instrument, being present with people who are in need, doing yard work, laughing with friends, watching funny movies, and praying. I would never assume that other peoples' recovery should look the same as mine, and I think that my higher power, God, is big and great enough to honor the efforts of even those who don't believe in Him.

RobertHugh

since you're directing your post at me, I'll ask: what did I say or write that suggested you didn't have the right to pursue your own route of recovery, or mine was better?

Kmber2010

Sobriety for me was what happened during my first go at getting off the sauce. I achieved getting sober and started some positive change but soon stopped support and began to think I was actually ok and really could manage my drinking. Then at a weak time with personal struggles I gave right in to my old habit and relapsed.

Recovery is what I am in now. I got sober....came to SR and still continue to and go to counseling. I am blessed in my life. Every day I have made more and more positive change. I guard my sobriety by being proactive about potential challenges and I have learned and continue to learn more positive ways to handle the ups and downs of life without any interest for the bottle. I understand only in recovery why I drank....I fully admitted and accepted that I am an alcoholic who can never drink again.

My life is truly blessed and I have done a full 360. I can't dwell on my past but I have a new life now that gives me so much hope of whats to come.....all of which is in me to do! No one makes us drink but ourselves. No more excuses. I am not ashamed and I am not afraid.

Thanks for the post. Good share and read!

Chops

The only thing that bothers me about a sober vs. recovery type differentiation is that it has been my experience at times in the halls of AA that I hear the word sober used like it is a bad thing. This really screwed me up early on. I would hear, "well if you are just sober you are not really doing it right" or the "dry drunk" label would get thrown out.

The words "just sober" baffled me since at the time I was walking into meetings proud as all hell to be sober. For me, staying away from one drink for one day was a big deal. I to this day fail to understand why some people like to make others in AA feel bad about staying away from booze.

In those first few months my body screamed for vodka. I got real comfortable being able to sleep in the fetal position the first month or so. I wanted to drink so f'ing bad that when I went to bed without having drank it was a miracle. So when I trotted into my 7am meeting and someone starts saying that being "just sober" is easy and I am not "working it" I was pretty put off.

And when people would say if you’re just sober you have not changed that screwed me up too. Well let's see, I am at an AA meeting instead of waiting in front of a liquor store like I have done for the last 4 years. I would say allot has changed.

Maybe getting sober was easy for some people but for me it was like getting skinned alive. Raw emotions, rough sleep, shame, guilt, fear etc. It sucked.

I have recovered from a hopeless state of body and mind because of AA. But in the halls I keep it at that I am sober, that is just for me.

So I understand the semantics but for me it is dangerous, I have a tendency to want to separate... usually this involves putting other people down unfortunately, so I just stick with sober being sober and that helps me keep level and out of the judging game. Much simpler for me too.:-)

CarolD

I'm continually amazed at how many different ways
people reach their goal of being a non drinker.....

If whatever you are doing does not improve your life...
please try something else.

There is no wrong way to win over addiction

LexieCat

I agree, Chops,

Sober/dry is better than drinking. It is progress. It is clearing my mind and healing my body so I can make further progress.

RobertHugh

I agree. There's definitely a period of time when we're just not drinking, and it's brutal. I tend to view it ironically as a period of grace-- when we're able to abstain until we find something that improves our situation, or we drink again (most likely).

I actually hear "sober" used more positively here than you seem to there. It's often used as "he/she's not sober, they are just dry," or something like that.

Sober is a state, recovery is a process.

Now, perhaps we could discuss the difference between recovering and recovered? Who's up for THAT?!?

JosetteCollins

Robert, to answer the question you asked me earlier, I agree you didn't say that your brand of recovery was better than anyone else's. I wasn't sure how to interpret your teasing of the poster who said that watching Matt Damon helped her with her sobriety, and I guess I took it the wrong way.

LaFemme

JC...it was my post...I took it as RH being funny, which is why I suggested he use Angelina Jolie instead of Matt Damon. The MD bit was a bit o a joke as well, but also not, in that my point was that everythin we do can be incorporated in our recovery:-)

Mat

Well... Recovery(in addiction) is the process of combating an addiction. If you include "remembering that you probably can't use <insert DOC here> in healthy moderation" as a part of that fight, then you will always need to be in recovery on some level.

To be recovered, medically speaking, is to return to a normal state of health. This really doesn't have much to do with addiction, no definition of "recovered" does. You could recover from the damage you did to your body, but you can't be recovered with respect to recovery(addiction).

In fact, the two words are really quite disconnected(when you use the definition of recovery which pertains to addiction) and they do not follow the normal logical progression that they do in everyday life(using their more common variants).

1. -Sam gets a cold. Sam is in recovery which progresses to his being recovered.

2. -Sam is an addict. Sam is in recovery which therefore progresses to...?

What I have displayed above is the fallacy of equivocation if you finish the second sentence with "his being recovered." You would be equivocating two different meanings of the word "recovery", and using the intuitive progression from meaning A, and applying it to meaning B. People who say "You can't ever be recovered from addiction, you are always in recovery." are playing on such equivocation, usually unknowingly. What we are dealing with here, is a word game being played by people who like those neat-o phrases full of seemingly unconventional wisdom; it's underpinning being a simple textbook fallacy.

At least I don't over-analyze everything, eh?