CStyle

I have yet to see a person relapse and their life get better. If you are contacting a sober community, be it AA, NA, SR, or any other, it is hard for me to believe that alcohol or drugs (or other addictions) are not negatively affecting your life. If you were truly happy with who you are and where you are, I doubt you would be coming back to announce you relapsed.

I have been clean and sober long enough to see many, many people relapse and then come back to a sober community. I always ask these people the same question – “So what are you doing different this time?” That is my question to you. Also if anyone has come back and done something different that has helped you stay sober, what was it?

yeahgr8

I have only been in AA for 5 months! I have seen someone literally disappear back to everyday drinking after 4 years not drinking, one after 18 months being forced into treatment, quite a few after 4-6 months totally disappear after relapsing, one in ICU after relapsing, one in Nut House (sorry not PC i know, for effect only) after relapsing! just 5 months?!

I've also seen a few that relapse anything from between 3 months and 3 years come back into the rooms (AA and NA, we all go for coffees together although i dont go to NA) and they all said they stopped working their program, stopped going to meetings and didn't ring their sponsor not all at once but over a period of time...they have come back in and have a couple have jumped straight back into all 3 things with a vengeance...seeing a grown man weeping like a baby for an hour at the table is a great indication as to what is waiting out there for me!

My sponsor says if i stick around long enough, and there is no reason why i shouldn't, that i will see and know people that die early deaths from alcoholism, as in know them in person...as he has known over his 24 years in the rooms...i'm pretty darn grateful to be sitting here sober today!!!

Oh and one who relapsed and tried to commit suicide...sorry forgot that one?! Oh yeah and pre-AA watched a 50 year old man literally drink himself to death leaving his 2 kids behind, had a friend who had 2 heart attacks and kept on drinking...sorry will stop now, will keep remembering people...

CarolD

I did often return to drinking after my decision to stop.
This went on for 4 miserable years.
Each time I felt more depressed and frustrated...

Finally....I read a book "Umder The Inflence" by Milam & Ketcham
that explained to me the disease of alcoholism
and why I continued to drink.

I took that info....re-connected to my God....went back to AA
committed myself to the program ...began working the AA Steps

The last drink I had was over 20 years ago and
my new life is full of purpose and joy.....

FanofJoeMcQ

I relapsed after several years around AA and NA. Then I stayed off the bottle with just outside counseling for a while. THen I SLOWLY picked up, pills, then coke, meth, then booze and on and on. In 1996. I had been beaten down, physically, emotionally the whole drill.

I crawled back to AA where I found understanding and hope. It is where my 'home' has been since. I stopped lying to myself. I followed through with help. By staying in recovery counseling for over a year. I did all the steps as instructed. I keep in touch with my counselor and I stay honest by using a sponsor. I have not felt necessary to drink or drug since that bleak day in April 1996. I found peace. Strange ~ and true~and I like it after having it a while!

tiburon88

That's why I don't announce when I relapse. I keep my original sobriety date and feel much better about myself. For me, it's all about respect and when u relapse u lose that. I only have to be honest with myself no one else and especially a bunch of drunks.

tiburon

jimhere

I didn't know that you could relapse from what you've never recovered from.

Cornbrosia

Tibburon if your relapsing and not changing your sobriety date you are indeed lying to yourself. Hell, I wasn't drunk when i was born. How about I make that my sobriety date

Ago

I always love topics like these in meetings, topics like humility, sobriety, and honesty.

The truth of the matter is for alcoholics, these are qualities we are bludgeoned into, we only acquire them by surrender, when we are unable to go on without them. Then in the first few years of sobriety we run around like puffed up toy balloons full of pride saying "look at me, look what I did, I got sober, worked the steps and can now share about how humble I am and how I got sober"

It's like scaling an impassable cliff, the whole while saying "help me God, help me God" then reaching the top and looking around and saying "look what I did!!!!"

The truth of the matter is I have never seen an alcoholic get sober except by doing what they are doing until they couldn't do it any more, and then some get sobriety, which is like grace, a free gift but one that requires action, and also requires honesty, open mindedness, and willingness, and in my experience required I put my sobriety in front of everything else in my whole life.

It was a free gift that I had to work harder on keeping and maintaining then I have ever worked on anything in my life, but if sobriety was only contingent on doing something different, I wouldn't be powerless over alcohol in the first place.

In one description of the real alcoholic, it says they are unable to bring into their mind with sufficient force the memory of their suffering and consequences of their drinking of last month, last week, or even last night, they are without a defense against the first drink, I see that same memory at work in sober alcoholics all the time, the sober alcoholics that take credit for their own sobriety, the ones that don't remember what powerless felt like.

We get a "window", a moment of time where if we jump through that window and do what we're told and hang on with all our might, we get a shot, we have a chance, I have the experience of having long term sobriety where the window opened, and it was easy, I just strolled through after years of suffering, and it was easy, then drinking after years of sobriety, and being unable to stop again. Going to meetings, working the steps, doing everything that was asked or required of me, but being unable to quit until the wheels fell off again, which took a few years.

So I no longer ask people who can't stop what they are going to do differently, I suggest they keep doing what they are doing until they are done, until doing what they are doing terrifies them so much they can't do it any more, keep doing what they are doing until they can surrender. Asking people what they are going to do differently is just a way for me to feel superior to them, and to set it up for them to lie to me, unhealthy for all concerned.

Every person needs to get a personal understanding of what powerless over alcohol looks like, some of us just need more research and development time, for a long time I did my own R and D, I don't need to any more, but I am not going to begrudge someone else their own R and D.

It takes what it takes, and that's just how that is, or it wouldn't be alcoholism, and no amount of clever catch phrases changes that.

Over the last few decades I have seen a few people return to drinking after long term sobriety, and actually only have a glass of wine or beer now and again, I learned I am not one of them, and they are admittedly in the overwhelming minority, but they are out there. I have seen every stage in between, the instant train wrecks, the loooong slow build ups to a bottom, and return to normal drinking, these people are none of my business, my business is a daily reprieve contingent on my spiritual condition, which focuses not at all what YOU are going to do differently, but what I am going to do differently.

Today.

Ago

Oh, @ Keepcomingback

just keep coming back, you know the drill, get a sponsor, work the steps, I know in the question "what are you going to do differently" it implies you did something "wrong", that's not always the case, sobriety is like trying to open a safe without the combination in the dark behind your back with a 2 year old screaming in your face.

just listen to those who came before you, and someday your relapse will be part of your experience, and you will be able to help someone else with the information you learn now.

You didn't do something "wrong", you drank, that's what alcoholics do, now learn what we do to not drink, it sounds like you are on the right path, keep doing what you are doing, going to meetings, reaching out, you'll be fine.

You too Tib, you are a fine example of belligerent defiance and what that attitude gets us.

drunk

Always love what ya post

penny74

What l understand is that almost everyone has a relapse.
Very few stop and never drink again.
l take off my hat for them !
l have been ok for 11 months now and have learned a lot about myself and other people.
l will try to use that knowledge to prevent a next relapse.

Personally I'm always ready to learn, although I do not always like being taught.
- Sir Winston Churchill

Gypsy Feet

Ago, your post scared me this morning, thanks.

I strolled through and it was easy, but I am terrified of going back out and not being able to stop so I work every day to stay here.

basIam

Of course you don't see them. if their life got better why would they come back?

I know a few people who came to AA after a scrape and after determining they weren't alcoholic, and have been able to drink normally. Many are able to do it. "My hat is off to them!"

But I do know, for me, it won't get better.

Stereosteveo

I always like the relapse topic. It's really a "powerless" topic to my ears. I relapsed 6 times my first year around AA. Today I know there is a difference in being "in" AA or "around" AA.

I think jimhere said it best "I didn't know that you could relapse from what you've never recovered from."

I really didn't think it was possible to recover from alcoholism, and I'm not cured by any means. But here's a great message a guy once carried to me:

He said:
"I relapsed for my first 7 years in AA.
Then I got a sponsor and worked the steps out of the Big Book.
For the last 22 years I haven't had an overwhelming obession of the mind that's forced me to drink again. I'm about as recovered as I am going to get.
I can tell you that if you are in AA, and you are drinking, or even thinking of drinking, there is work to be done."

One thing I've noticed about this guy is he hasn't quit carrying the message. What a gift he gave me. What a gift it is to carry.

To me it is by no degree a bloating act to carry a message that I was unwilling to follow for so long. In fact I it find it humbling. My ego wants me to carry my own message. One far more clever and revolutionary. The fact is I don't have one. I like where the book says "we hope these pages will prove so convincing that no further authentication will be necessary."

What is the purpose of AA and what is it's message? I did not realize it's simplicity for so long:

The primary purpose of AA is very clearly stated in Tradition 5.:
"Each group has but one primary purpose, to carry the message to the alcoholic who still suffers."

The message of AA is very clear in Step 12:
"Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps.."

It doesn't say "could have, would have, should have" It says "having had" as in "you will have".

I'm so glad the book gives clearcut, precise, specific, exact directions on how to follow the program of action and get sober. As well as what message to carry. Why? Because I had to read it and hear it about 10,564,290,381 times before I got it and became willing. Had it been a variety of messages I'd still be relapsing.

WakeUp

There's a book called Mindful Recovery, by Thomas and Beverly Bien.
They talk about the stages of change that people in recovery go through.

1. Precontemplation-questioning if they have a problem
2. Contemplation-deciding to change
3. Action-quitting drinking or drugging
4. Maintenance-staying clean/sober
5. Relapse-well, self explanatory

Many, many people go through these stages either once or over and over again. Then they "get it" and they exit the cycle and rest firmly in the Maintenance stage, staying sober for good.

They also talk about the "black and white" thinking that alcoholics are famous for. It's the thinking of, "Oh, I relapsed, I'm a hopeless failure, it's no use." In AA sloganeering this is called the "one drink, one drunk," the feeling that one drink and you're a hopeless drunk, you have no motivation, you're going to drink yourself to death in some gutter.

Of course, the best way to look at relapses, and this is what i did, was to write down everything that happened. Write down your thinking before the incident, what feelings did you experience, and what you're going to do in the aftermath.

Example: I had a crisis, anger, ect.
I drank x amount for x amount of time.
I felt guilt, shame, remorse.
I learned from the experience, and I will strengthed my commitment to my recovery program. I'll go to more meetings, pray more, call my sponsor more frequently, ect.


Of course, don't take the cycle of change as a license to go drink in order to "test the waters one more time."

As Zencat's Baby Stewie says, DON'T DRINK OR DRUG EVEN IF YOUR BUTT FALLS OFF!

Just my two pennies worth.

Untoxicated

I'm not a huge fan of the "interrogation of those that relapsed" mindset. I think support is more important than getting to the why - then perhaps after they have a few days of sobriety under their belt those questions will probably be met and answered more openly, honestly, and intuitively.

In keeping myself sober these past four days, I've been asking myself, "how much do you want sobriety?" If the answer is less than, "more than anything in the world" I'll drink again.

jimhere

"Ago, your post scared me this morning....."


Good.

Zencat

I have to look at why I stopped doing the things that were maintaining my recovered state of being. Things like not attending to my treatment program or being unaware of some of my red flags that could put me in danger of relapse. I liken myself to someone that has an illness that needs proper ongoing treatment in order to remain healthy. Like a recovered diabetes patient needs to do certain things to fend off a return of diabetes symptoms...I need to practice addiction (duel-disorder treatment in my case) treatment daily to stay recovered from addiction symptoms.

tiburon88

Keepcomingback, you I think understand what I'm saying. Relapse then you are a bad boy & must sit in the corner and/or do a 90 meetings in 90 days.


tib

CStyle

Albert Einstein once said “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.

I love alcoholics anonymous. It has not only saved my life, it has given me one. I believe alcoholics are a sensitive bunch, if we can some how find offense in something we generally look for it. It is easier to focus on the differences than it is to look at the similarities. My absolute best thinking and best ideas got me a seat in Alcoholics anonymous. So when my sponsor suggested that maybe I shouldn't rely on my logic, I figured he probably had a point.

It is interesting that when someone poses a question such as "What are you going to do differently?" that some would inject contempt, or and idea of supremacy into the asker. While others see the altruistic motives behind the question.

For me - what I did different when I came back -

I had hit my bottom. I found myself on my knees begging a God that I did not know and did not understand for help. It was either something had to change or I would kill myself. There was no bright light, there was no burning bush. I did find myself in a meeting of AA that night. The first thing I had to change was the people I was associating with. For some reason every time I hung out with my party buddies, I kept getting loaded. So instead of hanging out with them everyday, I started hanging out in the local AA hall. After that something changed and I shortly found out that if I wanted to fully experience a new way of life, everything had to change. I believe that every person in this world is a teacher, they teach us how we want to be and how we don't want to be. As the old saying goes - (please excuse my language)When you take a drunken a$$hole and you sober him up, what are you left with? An a$$hole. I have met many of these. I have also met so many wonderfully happy, content, joyful, honest, and loving people in the the rooms of AA. Those are the people that I levitated too and attempted to find out what they did in their lives to become that way.

Getting clean is not easy and neither is staying clean. Dealing with the reasons I drank and used, living life on lifes terms, having to experience emotions that I had blocked out for so long, or never experienced prior to recovery. Learning to live life one day at a time. Finding out that learning, growing, and change are daily occurrences. Being ok with peace and serenity (this is still a tough one). Loving myself so I can truly love others. The big book states - "Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves."

thejaywalker

not real sure of the tone of your post question ?????

I've been in AA since 1990, and I have slipped along the way
when I was successful i.e. achieving long term sobriety I did what was suggested, and was willing to go to any length necessary to gain victory over alcohol in my life

when I was unsuccessful " coming back in "
I did not take suggestions, and tried to run the show myself. I would let people sponsor me, so long as they did it the way I thought they ought to

When I did what worked, it worked
when I did not or quit doing what worked, then I slipped

doing the same things that got me sober the first time, also got me sober the other times as well

it's not rocket science
it's a simple program
and it works if you work it

JME